6 ms·

6:30AM is just some other city's 11:30AM... the difference in between is just light exposure, food consumption, and activity (the three big zeitgebers). Unless

6:30AM is just some other city's 11:30AM... the difference in between is just light exposure, food consumption, and activity (the three big zeitgebers). Unless you think you'd never resynchronize after moving across the world, it's pretty obvious that your wake and sleep time would have to be a lot more malleable than you suggest.

ItsMe000001 8y ago
No it isn't, unless you keep a completely unnatural and very strenuous artificial light environment. Not just any light source either. This is worse than people who can't eat most foods and have to have an extremely picky diet, because at least they can do that anywhere and can create a stash of food. To expect this of anyone is ignorant and cruel, IMO. > Unless you think you'd never resynchronize after moving across the world The synchronization is to the sun and its light, not to human clocks. That it seems to be the same is because the latter mimic the former, not the other way around. So you can't just use an arbitrary clock, not with any reasonable effort.
- rootusrootus 8y ago
  What do you do throughout the year as sunrise and sunset vary? For most of us there is a 4-5 hour difference in sunset between June and December.
  - ItsMe000001 8y ago
    Did you read my comment and the comment I replied to? Apparently not, because your reply makes no sense at all. Please, read again, start with the comment I replied to. You can also check out the other replies to him to understand what the subject of the discussion is.
  - ItsMe000001 8y ago
    You should read what you reply to. Given what I wrote your reply makes no sense I'm sorry to have to say.
  - ItsMe000001 8y ago
    Unfortunately I fail to see the connection between your reply and what I wrote. I said zeitgebers are set by the sun, so what is your point?
sk5t 8y ago
Are you being deliberately obtuse? The cycle of light and dark is of the essence here.
- devxpy 8y ago
  It isn't. > Kleitman and Richardson were to be their own experimental guinea pigs. Loaded with food and water for six weeks and a pair of dismantled, high-standing hospital beds, they took a trip into Mammoth Cave in Kentucky, one of the deepest caverns on the planet—so deep, in fact, that no detectable sunlight penetrates its farthest reaches. It was from this darkness that Kleitman and Richardson were to illuminate a striking scientific finding that would define our biologicalrhythm as being approximately one day (circadian), and not precisely one day. In addition to food and water, the two men brought a host of measuring devices to assess their body temperatures, as well as their waking and sleeping rhythms. This recording area formed the heart of their living space, flanked either side by their beds. The tall bed legs were each seated in a bucket of water, castle-moat style, to discourage the innumerable small (and not so small) creatures lurking in the depths of Mammoth Cave from joining them in bed. The experimental question facing Kleitman and Richardson was simple: When cut off from the daily cycle of light and dark, would their biological rhythms of sleep and wakefulness, together with body temperature, become completely erratic, or would they stay the same as those individuals in the outside world exposed to rhythmic daylight? In total, they lasted thirty-two days in complete darkness. Not only did they aggregate some impressive facial hair, but they made two groundbreaking discoveries in the process. The first was that humans, like de Mairan’s heliotrope plants, generated their own endogenous circadian rhythm in the absence of external light from the sun. That is, neither Kleitman nor Richardson descended into random spurts of wake and sleep, but instead expressed a predictable and repeating pattern of prolonged wakefulness (about fifteen hours), paired with consolidated bouts of about nine hours of sleep.
  - ItsMe000001 8y ago
    > one of the deepest caverns on the planet—so deep, in fact, that no detectable sunlight penetrates its farthest reaches And THAT is the point. Do you want OP to get away from the sun, so that it does not reset his zeigebers? > generated their own endogenous circadian rhythm in the absence of external light from the sun. I mean, you even quoted it yourself. Reminder: Topic still is OPs post and the reply to it that told him it's no big deal to adjust to 6.40, "proof" being there are other time zones.
lamontcg 8y ago
I've skipped business trips to Europe and the East Coast before because jetlag is completely brutal for me. And it takes all those tricks for me just to maintain a 24 hour sleep cycle. What I'd like to be able to do is what I did in college and shift my sleep schedule forward an hour or two every day. Instead I have a sleep mask, I start prepping for bed at least an hour early, I take melatonin, I make sure not to eat at night, and I lie down in bed with the sleep mask on for at least 20-30 minutes and listen to programs that help me to relax. Then it takes me 20-30 minutes after I really decide to go to sleep in order to go to sleep. And right before bedtime is when I'm most alert. Even if I stay up all night, at about 9:30pm I won't be able to sleep. What is really bad is when I'm seriously sleep depped and I get to sleep at say 7:30 or so, and I can easily wake up after 2-3 hours and then be stuck awake until >3am in the morning. So I use every single trick in the book and then can just barely manage to stick to what the rest of society thinks is normal and its a constant fight.
pdpi 8y ago
I think you’re missing the point. At least I do resync to new locations. Just not the way you think. I used to travel from London to the Bay Area for work with some regulatity. The first few days were amazing, because the combination of westwards jet lag plus night owl meant that I was getting to the office nice and early every day. As the jet lag went away, and I started to acclimate to the timezone, it usually took me less than a week to be back to a night owl routine, even without the usual stimuli.
- FabHK 8y ago
  Flying west is great. The flights east are brutal.
  - Corrado 8y ago
    I'm an early riser and I always hated flying West. At 4:30am (local time) I was up and ready to go before anyone else in the office was even thinking about getting up. And since I didn't usually have keys or a way to get into the office my morning was wasted waiting on everyone else to arrive. Flying East is easy (for me). :)
    - FabHK 8y ago
      Fair enough! I'm a night owl, so flying west brings me closer to the "early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise" crowd...
artpepper2 8y ago
Counter-point: When you fly to another time zone, your body naturally adjusts to the new local time. If sleep cycles were totally malleable, you would just stay on your original sleep cycle until you decided to change it.

ItsMe000001 8y ago

No it isn't, unless you keep a completely unnatural and very strenuous artificial light environment. Not just any light source either. This is worse than people who can't eat most foods and have to have an extremely picky diet, because at least they can do that anywhere and can create a stash of food. To expect this of anyone is ignorant and cruel, IMO. > Unless you think you'd never resynchronize after moving across the world The synchronization is to the sun and its light, not to human clocks. That it seems to be the same is because the latter mimic the former, not the other way around. So you can't just use an arbitrary clock, not with any reasonable effort.

rootusrootus 8y ago
What do you do throughout the year as sunrise and sunset vary? For most of us there is a 4-5 hour difference in sunset between June and December.
- ItsMe000001 8y ago
  Did you read my comment and the comment I replied to? Apparently not, because your reply makes no sense at all. Please, read again, start with the comment I replied to. You can also check out the other replies to him to understand what the subject of the discussion is.
- ItsMe000001 8y ago
  You should read what you reply to. Given what I wrote your reply makes no sense I'm sorry to have to say.
- ItsMe000001 8y ago
  Unfortunately I fail to see the connection between your reply and what I wrote. I said zeitgebers are set by the sun, so what is your point?

sk5t 8y ago

Are you being deliberately obtuse? The cycle of light and dark is of the essence here.

devxpy 8y ago
It isn't. > Kleitman and Richardson were to be their own experimental guinea pigs. Loaded with food and water for six weeks and a pair of dismantled, high-standing hospital beds, they took a trip into Mammoth Cave in Kentucky, one of the deepest caverns on the planet—so deep, in fact, that no detectable sunlight penetrates its farthest reaches. It was from this darkness that Kleitman and Richardson were to illuminate a striking scientific finding that would define our biologicalrhythm as being approximately one day (circadian), and not precisely one day. In addition to food and water, the two men brought a host of measuring devices to assess their body temperatures, as well as their waking and sleeping rhythms. This recording area formed the heart of their living space, flanked either side by their beds. The tall bed legs were each seated in a bucket of water, castle-moat style, to discourage the innumerable small (and not so small) creatures lurking in the depths of Mammoth Cave from joining them in bed. The experimental question facing Kleitman and Richardson was simple: When cut off from the daily cycle of light and dark, would their biological rhythms of sleep and wakefulness, together with body temperature, become completely erratic, or would they stay the same as those individuals in the outside world exposed to rhythmic daylight? In total, they lasted thirty-two days in complete darkness. Not only did they aggregate some impressive facial hair, but they made two groundbreaking discoveries in the process. The first was that humans, like de Mairan’s heliotrope plants, generated their own endogenous circadian rhythm in the absence of external light from the sun. That is, neither Kleitman nor Richardson descended into random spurts of wake and sleep, but instead expressed a predictable and repeating pattern of prolonged wakefulness (about fifteen hours), paired with consolidated bouts of about nine hours of sleep.
- ItsMe000001 8y ago
  > one of the deepest caverns on the planet—so deep, in fact, that no detectable sunlight penetrates its farthest reaches And THAT is the point. Do you want OP to get away from the sun, so that it does not reset his zeigebers? > generated their own endogenous circadian rhythm in the absence of external light from the sun. I mean, you even quoted it yourself. Reminder: Topic still is OPs post and the reply to it that told him it's no big deal to adjust to 6.40, "proof" being there are other time zones.

lamontcg 8y ago

I've skipped business trips to Europe and the East Coast before because jetlag is completely brutal for me. And it takes all those tricks for me just to maintain a 24 hour sleep cycle. What I'd like to be able to do is what I did in college and shift my sleep schedule forward an hour or two every day. Instead I have a sleep mask, I start prepping for bed at least an hour early, I take melatonin, I make sure not to eat at night, and I lie down in bed with the sleep mask on for at least 20-30 minutes and listen to programs that help me to relax. Then it takes me 20-30 minutes after I really decide to go to sleep in order to go to sleep. And right before bedtime is when I'm most alert. Even if I stay up all night, at about 9:30pm I won't be able to sleep. What is really bad is when I'm seriously sleep depped and I get to sleep at say 7:30 or so, and I can easily wake up after 2-3 hours and then be stuck awake until >3am in the morning. So I use every single trick in the book and then can just barely manage to stick to what the rest of society thinks is normal and its a constant fight.

pdpi 8y ago

I think you’re missing the point. At least I do resync to new locations. Just not the way you think. I used to travel from London to the Bay Area for work with some regulatity. The first few days were amazing, because the combination of westwards jet lag plus night owl meant that I was getting to the office nice and early every day. As the jet lag went away, and I started to acclimate to the timezone, it usually took me less than a week to be back to a night owl routine, even without the usual stimuli.

FabHK 8y ago
Flying west is great. The flights east are brutal.
- Corrado 8y ago
  I'm an early riser and I always hated flying West. At 4:30am (local time) I was up and ready to go before anyone else in the office was even thinking about getting up. And since I didn't usually have keys or a way to get into the office my morning was wasted waiting on everyone else to arrive. Flying East is easy (for me). :)
  - FabHK 8y ago
    Fair enough! I'm a night owl, so flying west brings me closer to the "early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise" crowd...

artpepper2 8y ago

Counter-point: When you fly to another time zone, your body naturally adjusts to the new local time. If sleep cycles were totally malleable, you would just stay on your original sleep cycle until you decided to change it.