9 ms·

Better have a solid alternative in-place before throwing away social or income sheet capital. Up and quitting (hopefully with notice) without a plan isn't smart

Better have a solid alternative in-place before throwing away social or income sheet capital. Up and quitting (hopefully with notice) without a plan isn't smart or professional.

dawhizkid 8y ago
It’s actually pretty normal nowadays. No one is suggesting you have to burn bridges if you quit.
hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
I think the takeaway, though, is that being too cautious is dangerous, too, because there is so much upside to leaving a job you don't like. Lesson I've certainly learned: No need to burn bridges, but waiting for the "perfect time" to leave a tech job (e.g. all projects wrapped up, other job fully lined up, etc.) is a futile exercise. Just be considerate with 2 weeks notice, say you want to explore other opportunities or whatever, and move on.
Black-Plaid 8y ago
> Up and quitting (hopefully with notice) Why is it considered bad form to quit without notice, but if a company lets you go without notice, it's "just business"?
- hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
  At least in the tech world, if a company just let you go with no severance I think it would rightfully be branded a very shitty thing to do.
  - lovich 8y ago
    Welcome to 95% of the tech world. I don't know anyone whose been laid off and was offered even a month of severance. It appears very common in San Francisco but the rest of the world acts like most businesses
    - aikinai 8y ago
      Severance is extremely common outside Silicon Valley and even outside of tech. Even people in (skilled) factory jobs usually get severance when laid off. It's mainly a hedge against getting sued rather than goodness of heart, but it's still common.
      - lovich 8y ago
        I would like to see evidence if that. I've seen companies offer a single paycheck,two weeks that is, of pay and act like they were ghandi for it. They also usually ask for you to sign all the NDAs and other agreements they forgot to get you to sign, in exchange for that severance
      - jpatokal 8y ago
        More than that, severance is the law in the vast majority of the world. Being fired without notice and without severance, losing your health insurance and having to fight for unemployment in court is a trifecta of unthinkable for the average European.
        lovich 8y ago
        Yea, I should have specified this was the US only. I will say though, this is not the "vast majority of the world". South America, Africa, and Asia certainly don't have the same protections as Europe and they hold the vast majority of the population
        Xylakant 8y ago
        Severance is not in the law in germany. Notice periods are, but there are some substantial differences. You can’t take on a job after having received or handed in your notice - you’re in principle still expected to work. If you just decide to not show up, that’d grounds for immediate termination. Both sides can agree by contract to terminate the employment immediately (Aufhebungsvertrag) and those contracts often stipulate a severance, but for example they also often stipulate that any wages from jobs you take on in that period get deducted from the severance payment.
- noobermin 8y ago
  Because one side has power and the other doesn't.
- maccard 8y ago
  In the US. plenty of places have legal requirements for notice and severance.
- mnm1 8y ago
  Because we are taught that way by company propaganda. It really isn't a big deal and often, leaving without notice is the right thing to do. Companies in the US have no respect or care for their employees, yet they push this idea that we must respect and care for them. Fuck them if their usefulness has come to an end. Not to mention that often, when you do give notice, they'll fire you simply to avoid paying you the final two weeks. We need to stop buying into this stupid bullshit corporate propaganda and eradicate it out of our culture to make progress.
  - jstarfish 8y ago
    I agree with you, but-- > Not to mention that often, when you do give notice, they'll fire you simply to avoid paying you the final two weeks This makes no sense. Companies will make your life hell and do anything to get you to quit so they don't have to fire you. If they fire you without cause, you can make an unemployment claim against them-- but if you quit on your own, that's on you. In my experience, it's more common that they'll enact your resignation immediately yet continue paying you as though you were working the next two weeks, to mitigate any final acts of sabotage or exfiltration.
    - maxsilver 8y ago
      > In my experience, it's more common that they'll enact your resignation immediately yet continue paying you In my experience, it's not uncommon that they'll enact your resignation immediately, and that's it. No wages, no pay, you resigned, so goodbye. > This makes no sense. (snip) If they fire you without cause, you can make an unemployment claim against them Companies are not necessarily rational actors, they are wholly controlled by people who can sometimes be just as rash or impulsive as any other person. Especially at smaller companies, pure spite can have a non-trivial amount of play in the hiring/firing/resigning process. And what is the employee really going to do, file for unemployment? The employee already has a new job (that's why they resigned in the first place), so it's a pretty safe gamble they aren't going though that hassle, just for the two week gap. --- If the company falls on hard times and lays people off, that's "just business" and "no hard feelings". But if an employee leaves for a different job, that's a minor betrayal, and gets treated as such. This response is not appropriate, but I've seen it often enough to know it happens.
- spacehome 8y ago
  The flip side to notice is not notice, but severance pay. Who cares if you're not required to go into work every day but the paycheck keeps rolling in?
- tboyd47 8y ago
  When you get let go, neither you nor the people who depend on you at work know that it's coming. When you quit, you know it's coming and they don't. The two week notice gives them time to get the info they need from you. It's not really for the company, it's for your colleagues. If no one depends on you then it doesn't matter.
quickthrower2 8y ago
I just quit without another job to go to - although admittedly I have a plan :-)
PhasmaFelis 8y ago
No one is saying to quit your job right this instant with no plan.
sanderjd 8y ago
I did this. I would agree that it wasn't smart, but I don't think it was unprofessional. I stayed long enough to wrap up or hand off all my projects. It wouldn't have worked to find something else right away because I was burnt out with stress, and adding on job-searching stress and starting a new job right away would have just compounded that problem. What I needed was time off to recover. It's absolutely a luxury of our industry that I was able to do this without (much) ill effect, but all my employers since then have benefited from my improved mental state afterward. But still, I agree it wasn't smart; the smart move would have been to recognize the impending burn out early on and work with my employer to keep it from getting to the quitting point.
- justin_oaks 8y ago
  I did the same. I quit without a new job to go to. I had planned to quit for months before I actually did, but job searching while I was stressed was adding to my stress. It just wasn't working. I had enough savings and I knew my skills were in demand so I quit. I recovered for a couple months before I started job searching again. Within a month of starting the job search, I had a new job. I think quitting without a new job isn't always a dumb thing to do. I think in our cases it was the smart thing to do.
projektir 8y ago
I disagree, sometimes it's just what you need to do. I did this, moved to a new city, it was great for my mental health and I ended up at a MUCH better job in the end.

Better have a solid alternative in-place before throwing away social or income sheet capital. Up and quitting (hopefully with notice) without a plan isn't smart or professional.

dawhizkid 8y ago

It’s actually pretty normal nowadays. No one is suggesting you have to burn bridges if you quit.

hn_throwaway_99 8y ago

I think the takeaway, though, is that being too cautious is dangerous, too, because there is so much upside to leaving a job you don't like. Lesson I've certainly learned: No need to burn bridges, but waiting for the "perfect time" to leave a tech job (e.g. all projects wrapped up, other job fully lined up, etc.) is a futile exercise. Just be considerate with 2 weeks notice, say you want to explore other opportunities or whatever, and move on.

Black-Plaid 8y ago

> Up and quitting (hopefully with notice) Why is it considered bad form to quit without notice, but if a company lets you go without notice, it's "just business"?

hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
At least in the tech world, if a company just let you go with no severance I think it would rightfully be branded a very shitty thing to do.
- lovich 8y ago
  Welcome to 95% of the tech world. I don't know anyone whose been laid off and was offered even a month of severance. It appears very common in San Francisco but the rest of the world acts like most businesses
  - aikinai 8y ago
    Severance is extremely common outside Silicon Valley and even outside of tech. Even people in (skilled) factory jobs usually get severance when laid off. It's mainly a hedge against getting sued rather than goodness of heart, but it's still common.
    - lovich 8y ago
      I would like to see evidence if that. I've seen companies offer a single paycheck,two weeks that is, of pay and act like they were ghandi for it. They also usually ask for you to sign all the NDAs and other agreements they forgot to get you to sign, in exchange for that severance
    - jpatokal 8y ago
      More than that, severance is the law in the vast majority of the world. Being fired without notice and without severance, losing your health insurance and having to fight for unemployment in court is a trifecta of unthinkable for the average European.
      - lovich 8y ago
        Yea, I should have specified this was the US only. I will say though, this is not the "vast majority of the world". South America, Africa, and Asia certainly don't have the same protections as Europe and they hold the vast majority of the population
      - Xylakant 8y ago
        Severance is not in the law in germany. Notice periods are, but there are some substantial differences. You can’t take on a job after having received or handed in your notice - you’re in principle still expected to work. If you just decide to not show up, that’d grounds for immediate termination. Both sides can agree by contract to terminate the employment immediately (Aufhebungsvertrag) and those contracts often stipulate a severance, but for example they also often stipulate that any wages from jobs you take on in that period get deducted from the severance payment.
noobermin 8y ago
Because one side has power and the other doesn't.
maccard 8y ago
In the US. plenty of places have legal requirements for notice and severance.
mnm1 8y ago
Because we are taught that way by company propaganda. It really isn't a big deal and often, leaving without notice is the right thing to do. Companies in the US have no respect or care for their employees, yet they push this idea that we must respect and care for them. Fuck them if their usefulness has come to an end. Not to mention that often, when you do give notice, they'll fire you simply to avoid paying you the final two weeks. We need to stop buying into this stupid bullshit corporate propaganda and eradicate it out of our culture to make progress.
- jstarfish 8y ago
  I agree with you, but-- > Not to mention that often, when you do give notice, they'll fire you simply to avoid paying you the final two weeks This makes no sense. Companies will make your life hell and do anything to get you to quit so they don't have to fire you. If they fire you without cause, you can make an unemployment claim against them-- but if you quit on your own, that's on you. In my experience, it's more common that they'll enact your resignation immediately yet continue paying you as though you were working the next two weeks, to mitigate any final acts of sabotage or exfiltration.
  - maxsilver 8y ago
    > In my experience, it's more common that they'll enact your resignation immediately yet continue paying you In my experience, it's not uncommon that they'll enact your resignation immediately, and that's it. No wages, no pay, you resigned, so goodbye. > This makes no sense. (snip) If they fire you without cause, you can make an unemployment claim against them Companies are not necessarily rational actors, they are wholly controlled by people who can sometimes be just as rash or impulsive as any other person. Especially at smaller companies, pure spite can have a non-trivial amount of play in the hiring/firing/resigning process. And what is the employee really going to do, file for unemployment? The employee already has a new job (that's why they resigned in the first place), so it's a pretty safe gamble they aren't going though that hassle, just for the two week gap. --- If the company falls on hard times and lays people off, that's "just business" and "no hard feelings". But if an employee leaves for a different job, that's a minor betrayal, and gets treated as such. This response is not appropriate, but I've seen it often enough to know it happens.
spacehome 8y ago
The flip side to notice is not notice, but severance pay. Who cares if you're not required to go into work every day but the paycheck keeps rolling in?
tboyd47 8y ago
When you get let go, neither you nor the people who depend on you at work know that it's coming. When you quit, you know it's coming and they don't. The two week notice gives them time to get the info they need from you. It's not really for the company, it's for your colleagues. If no one depends on you then it doesn't matter.

quickthrower2 8y ago

I just quit without another job to go to - although admittedly I have a plan :-)

PhasmaFelis 8y ago

No one is saying to quit your job right this instant with no plan.

sanderjd 8y ago

I did this. I would agree that it wasn't smart, but I don't think it was unprofessional. I stayed long enough to wrap up or hand off all my projects. It wouldn't have worked to find something else right away because I was burnt out with stress, and adding on job-searching stress and starting a new job right away would have just compounded that problem. What I needed was time off to recover. It's absolutely a luxury of our industry that I was able to do this without (much) ill effect, but all my employers since then have benefited from my improved mental state afterward. But still, I agree it wasn't smart; the smart move would have been to recognize the impending burn out early on and work with my employer to keep it from getting to the quitting point.

justin_oaks 8y ago
I did the same. I quit without a new job to go to. I had planned to quit for months before I actually did, but job searching while I was stressed was adding to my stress. It just wasn't working. I had enough savings and I knew my skills were in demand so I quit. I recovered for a couple months before I started job searching again. Within a month of starting the job search, I had a new job. I think quitting without a new job isn't always a dumb thing to do. I think in our cases it was the smart thing to do.

projektir 8y ago

I disagree, sometimes it's just what you need to do. I did this, moved to a new city, it was great for my mental health and I ended up at a MUCH better job in the end.