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British cave diver considering legal action after 'pedo' attack by Elon Musk
- planetjones 8y agoI supported Musk after he released his e-mail correspondence showing the dive team had requested he continue work with his submarine. I also think Musk genuinely tried to help solve a problem; maybe not with the greatest requirements gathering (though Musk is adamant the submarine would be able to reach the cave and is planning to demonstrate this). Some of the attacks on Musk were terrible and unnecessary. However, he then sends this baseless tweet. And doubles down on it. It is juvenile, petty and disgraceful behavior. It would seem that everyone is deeply flawed in some way.
- erokar 8y ago> It would seem that everyone is deeply flawed in some way. It would seem that Musk is deeply flawed in some way.
- TeMPOraL 8y agoAnd so is everyone else. It's so obvious that we usually don't even about it, except when people need an occasional reminder that their favourite celebrities are human too.
- blub 8y agoGreat power, great responsibility, etc. not everyone can unleash a torrent of pain just by tweeting. People with such power should be held to much much higher standards. Or better yet, they shouldn't have it in the first place.
- happertiger 8y agoYea when someone in the public eye forgets the lessons they teach in kindergarten it’s always a little disappointing. I imagine he is mad at the guy, but I wish he would show a little less hubris. Nobody is perfect. Hope he learns to apologize and be the bigger person because the benefits of that approach for those that are publicly adored cannot be overstated.
- m_mueller 8y agoYou know what, maybe the kindergarden analogy is quite apt. EM seems to have a childlike wonder, drive and openness, which is very powerful when combined with a high quality STEM education and intellect - maybe 'staying a child' comes with good and bad attitudes at the same time?
- chewz 8y agoI think this story demonstrates the difference between quiet professionalism of people like Unsworth and narcistic void of Musk.
- Brotkrumen 8y agoQuiet professionalism would've been "no comment about Musk. I'm happy the children are safe".
- chewz 8y agoWell Unsworth had behind him many years of experience diving in these caves and had been instrumental to locating the children and the rescue operation. Can't blame him for his outburst at Musk's PR stunt
- Brotkrumen 8y agoAren't outbursts at odds with quiet professionalism?
- watwut 8y agoLets not confuse quiet professionalism with submission and passivity. That guy was coordinating large amount people in high stress situation. If he would allow everyone to walk on him, lie about him and would not be able with people full of BS, the whole operation would had likely failed.
- flexie 8y agoIt's unworthy and completely wrong reaction, but it is understandable given the diver's prior attacks on him. Not that it's an excuse.
- darklajid 8y agoDifferent people are held to different standards. Even if insulted (and how insulting were these previous comments, really?) a random diver speaks for himself, a public figure heading and representing multiple big corporations should be able to keep his mouth shut instead.
- KozmoNau7 8y agoWhich prior attacks would that be? He simply told Musk to go away and take his toys with him, before he hurt someone. Was he direct and a little bit rude? Sure, but the overall situation was quite tense, so there wasn't a lot of time for fine detail and detailed explanations.
- belltaco 8y agoThis was after the rescue finished. >Elon Musk can 'stick his submarine where it hurts', says British caver who helped rescue Thai schoolboys https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/thai-cave-rescue-elon-musk-mini-submarine-british-driver-tham-luang-vern-unsworth-a8447166.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/thai-cave-resc...
- KozmoNau7 8y agoI stand corrected. However, it was still justified.
- blub 8y agoHow can it be unworthy and wrong... yet understandable? It's understandable to be pissed off and call the other guy an asshole. This is totally fucked up and not at all understandable.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- mmjaa 8y agoIts not entirely baseless - there are rather discomfiting pictures out there of Vernon Unsworth interacting with children. He has deleted them from his Twitter, but they were there prior to this kefluffle.
- icebraining 8y agoWhose Twitter? Unsworth's? And nobody screencaped them? Did you see them, or are you spreading rumors?
- Fnoord 8y agoCare to share a source so we can judge for ourselves whether those pictures are discomfiting?
- nAwYz 8y agoAny link to them? Because at the moment this sounds like slander. I also can not imaging that someone has so problematic pictures on his Twitter
- agumonkey 8y agoI'm now waiting on bezos answer, he must compete.
- TeMPOraL 8y agoJeff Who? Twitter jabs are funny until the audience - or participants themselves - start to treat them too seriously. That's when the problem starts. I'm sad to see Elon falling into this trap.
- agumonkey 8y agoI'm still thinking Musk is on a slippery slope, too many projects, too many claims, too much debt. I don't think social networks are the main factor here.
- TeMPOraL 8y agoI agree social media is more of a symptom here. I've been worrying about that recently too. From what I see on-line, I feel like his behaviour has become pretty... erratic. He used to be more focused on solving big problems in the past. I worry he'll go completely off the rails at some point, and destroy all the efforts around space access and Mars.
- agumonkey 8y agoI picture a very jobsian future. Ousted because of damaging management. Then a come back with more wisdom and turtlenecks.
- erokar 8y agoGoes to show this was all about ego for Musk. Instead of being happy that all the children were rescued, his ego got bruised since they didn't use his submarine -- and he attacks the real heroes. Text book narcissistic behavior.
- happertiger 8y agoThat’s really the thought that went through my head exactly.
- Double_a_92 8y agoI assume he must have been heavily intoxicated at that point. Not trying to defend him or anything... I just can't imagine how any public person could go that low. He must have known how hard that would backlash.
- postmeta 8y agoWell the British diver guy, Vernon Unsworth, did start with the innuendo attacks first, telling Musk "he can stick it where it hurts", referring to the sub. That's what Musk was responding to I think. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-15/thai-cave-rescue-diver-says-elon-musk-mini-submarine-pr-stunt/9995624 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-15/thai-cave-rescue-diver...
- icebraining 8y ago"Pedo guy" is not an innuendo. Plus Unsworth's words may have been crass, but they weren't an accusation of anything. There's really no comparison.
- agumonkey 8y agoLucky for Elon he has the technology to run as far away as possible from the shame
- obituary_latte 8y ago>Unsworth's words may have been crass, but they weren't an accusation of anything To be fair, he accused Elon’s effort of being a pr stunt. Doesn’t justify the response but it was an attack of sorts.
- curiousgal 8y agoOne problem I have with the reception of this story is that most people think he attacked one of the British divers that were the first to find the boys, whereas in fact, the diver in question is a different person. The article describes him as "instrumental" but that encompasses a lot of the people involved, including the farmers whose lands got destroyed by the pumped water. I am not trying to down play this guy's contribution by any means but he is not who most people think he is. That being said, both men engaged in a juvenile uncivilized exchange, initiated by the British diver, so there's no need to get courts involved.
- Oletros 8y agoAre you putting at the same level the comment from the diver about putting the sub where it hurts with Musk calling him pedophile?
- KozmoNau7 8y agoTelling a billionaire playboy to go away and take his silly toys with him, in a direct and clear manner befitting the drama of the situation is not a "juvenile uncivilized exchange".
- danso 8y agoThere have been feature articles about Unsworth describing his role, but I can’t find them since the top 50 google results are about Musk calling him a pedo. IIRC, his role involved have expert knowledge of the caves, more or less pinpointing the location of the soccer team, and convincing the Thai government to call on the British divers who eventually found the boys. Seems pretty substantial to me: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/10/family-british-diver-thai-cave-rescue-waiting-celebrate-car/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/10/family-british-d...
- throw2016 8y agoThis is so unbecoming and tacky. He has betrayed an unbelievable level of egotism and immaturity and embarrassed himself permanently. The problem seems to be he is convinced he is smarter than everyone else and being dismissed obviously did not sit well with him. The most important thing is all the children were rescued safely and obviously the rescuers have distinguished themselves. This is a lesson for all those convinced about their own smartness not to assume everyone else is stupid, and the importance of humility and maturity.
- TorKlingberg 8y agoI love what Elon Musk is doing with SpaceX and Tesla, but he really needs to constrain his ego on Twitter. He's a big time celebrity now, and people are going to talk about him. Some of them will be negative, and some will be uncharitable. Getting into fights all the time isn't going to help him archive great things. (and his fans should stop cheering him on)
- pavlov 8y agoWhy does Musk insist on pursuing a playground vendetta over this? The submarine was a quick hack and turns out it didn't quite work. That's perfectly ok -- that's what quick hacks are like. It would be forgotten in a week as he moves on to the next shiny engineering challenge to keep his audience thrilled. Instead, he doubles down on every real or perceived slight against him. Donald Trump does the same. It must be an effective PR tactic because these two American luminaries do it, but it's frustrating to watch how this stuff consumes so much media oxygen from real issues.
- makomk 8y agoThe short answer is, this article completely omits the part of the diver's comments that actually made the headlines originally. He also said it was just a PR stunt, and everyone latched onto this as proof that Elon Musk was an evil person for even trying and that the dive team who'd actually rescued the kids confirmed it. It was only after Elon's subsequent morally-bankrupt smear made for a better avenue of attack that the media started downplaying the diver's comments as just some minor technical criticism rather than iron-clad proof Musk was a monster taking advantage of kids' peril.
- Td5g 8y agoEverybody makes mistakes, he rectified it by deleting his tweet. /s
- rohan1024 8y ago¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- MrLeftHand 8y agoI don't know. How would you feel if someone would call you a pedophile on social media, but deleted the comment after a couple of hours? Especially by a person who has a huge following and every word he writes can have a massive impact on peoples perception. As a lot of people pointed out, the term pedophile can be very damaging on one's life. Now put these two things together... With great power, comes great responsibility. When you are a leader you have to be careful what you say and do. Granted, we are all human, but deleting a tweet doesn't even come close to an apology.
- loco5niner 8y agoFYI - /s denotes sarcasm.
- MrLeftHand 8y agoLater the day I was wondering about that. Always learning something new then.
- Slartie 8y agoCan totally understand that guy, and I hope he follows through on legal action against Musk. Having a verbal fight is one thing, even throwing around "dirty" language is in some way acceptable among grown-ups, as long as both sides know the limits. One of those limits is that you never, never, never, NEVER accuse your opponent of socially stigmatizing behavior, especially not if you have no basis for doing so (and even if you have evidence for it, it's still kind of bad style to bring that up). Being a pedophile is probably the most stigmatizing accusation possible in todays' society - just the accusation alone, no evidence whatsoever necessary, can destroy the life of perfectly honest people if it "catches on" somehow, and stuff like that quickly catches on and develops a life of its own. Especially when publicized by some guy with a cult-like following of 22 million people on Twitter. If Musk was a kid, he should have gotten seriously disciplined by his parents for this, in hopes that he'd learn where the limits are. For adults, it's up to the legal system to do this job. To be honest, I have little hope for Musk to learn any new tricks with regard to acceptable limits for his childish temper tantrums, but I nevertheless hope he doesn't get out of this entirely unscathed - this one was just way too far over the line.
- dnel 8y agoI doubt any amount of damages he'd get would even slightly sting Musk, the worst Musk will get is the bad press about this but that's already happening. At least the guy might get some legal cleasing from the stain Musk put on him and a bit of cash in compensation. I hope he follows through because throwing about accusations like that is not on and kids, and some grown-ups, who look up to a man like Musk need to see that he has boundaries of acceptable conduct and he's stepped over them this time.
- mruniverse 8y agoHopefully people will idolize Musk a little less.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
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- Traubenfuchs 8y agoElon Musk seems to be a very undiplomatic, passive aggressive person. His behavior makes it look like he is not used to repercussions for his socially unacceptable behavior. His public social media self harming / suicide attempts are bizarre. Elon really needs a (social media) handler.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- GenericsMotors 8y agoMusk gets told his PR stunt is unwelcome and should bugger off, and his reaction is to call one of the people who risked their lives to save those kids a paedophile? What a narcissistic prick. Confirms his stupid sub was nothing more than ego-stroking.
- oliwarner 8y agoI worry about Elon. It's not just that he can go from zero to full-on character assassination in three messages, not just that he doesn't care who he does that in front of, but also that he very evidently values a dollar bill with his signature as more than $1. It's openly-expressed megalomania. People have joked about him being one failure away from turning full super-villain, but if he does stuff like this again, he really risks the stock markets destroying everything. Tesla lives and breaths on outside funding at the moment. It can be snuffed out.
- glenra 8y ago>he very evidently values a dollar bill with his signature as more than $1. Wait, is it not objectively true that the autograph of a famous person tends to add value to the things they sign? Ebay has a category for Musk-autographed stuff. People post stuff in that category, and sometimes it sells. Are you saying stuff advertised as having been signed by him would be worth more without the signature? :-)
- f137 8y agoMusk is a narcissistic asshole. That's all. I hope more people will see it now.