9 ms·

Instead of ‘finding your passion,’ try developing it, Stanford scholars say

318 points by mengledowl 8y ago

Kagerjay 8y ago
I think finding your passion is as much as finding what you are not passionate about. Its the reason why I like trying out so many things - I want to find what I truly don't enjoy. When I was in school, I did 2 years of research. Some of it was photovoltaics research (solar cells) and I also did some shape memory alloys research used in space-grade actuators. I found myself not enjoying it at all. On my metallurgical project, I would go to the lab, have to handle the most monotonous task just to test one sample. One sample took 100 hours to prepare and had very little tolerance for error. The equipment I used was kind of outdated as well. I spent several hours everyday grinding a titanium billet the size of a miniature 1/2" knife so I could check its hardness and elasticity before I loaded it into the scanning electron microscope. I lost my samples quite a few times so I had to start over by creating a new billet in the arc furnace. In the end, the data I got had too much noise and basically didn't equate to enough to publish a paper. I still defended my thesis anyhow though. I did learn alot along the way spending hours reading graduate level papers. The research might have helped understand actuation failure for space grade components. But really I felt like I was crawling at a snails pacing with the work I did. I enjoy doing things for myself first and foremost. I find what I am most passionate about really boils down to things I did as a kid. I used to make my own modded starcraft maps in elementary school. I would download a popular map, throw it in the editor, add new logic, so I could make a game either (1) more interesting or (2) add cheats and exploits for myself. It was fun. I also built my own computer as a kid too - debugging hardware was always painful, but the moment it clicked it felt so satisfying. Other ways I find things I am and am not passionate about. I subscribe to about 800 things on youtube that I find fascinating. Most of it is related to a combination of math, computer science, electrical and mechanical engineering. Personally I have a serious deficit knowledge on all 4 of them, but I am always learning new things everyday. I still suck at math though and I can't seem to understand how to do mathmatical induction and/or proofs though. I spent a lot of my freetime programming because this is the easiest subject to pick up of the ones mentioned above. Its also profitable. I think its okay to be passionate about more than one thing so long as it falls under the same umbrella of things you want to do - building cool stuff. And that its okay to not spend as much time workong on them due to time constraints. I also am pretty good at welding (200+ hours) and 3D modeling as well, among other things. Ultimately my dream is to become a 10x engineer. Someone who is so good at building anything with their mind and hands that I could create new works of art. I take inspiration from a variety of leaders in those industries - from all age groups.
MrRubbish 8y ago
passion—strong and barely controllable emotion. "a man of impetuous passion" Sounds like a self-centeres, obsessive and unhealthy activity. Time for some self-control? There’s no magic, passions don’t materialise. Get a grip.
rdlecler1 8y ago
It makes for a nice aspirational graduation speech, but as many PhDs will attest passion doesn’t matter much if society doesn’t value your passion and you need to put food on the table.
- wazoox 8y ago
  Yup. And see the terrible situations is all and every vocational and artistic occupations. Competition is so fierce that almost everyone has to work basically for free and sustain themselves by doing menial job on the side. You could argue that most of them would be better finding a life occupation they're at least merely interested in instead, but providing decent living, and keeping their passion as a hobby. (I've been a professional musician many years ago, merely scraping by from gig to gig with some piano teaching).
  - im3w1l 8y ago
    I can't help but wonder if a planned economy would be better, someone who said "you're good enough, pursue this we will support you economically", or said "sorry you didn't make the cut you'll have to develop a passion for something else".
    - Noos 8y ago
      Would you like to be told to develop a passion for cleaning toilets?
      - rzzzt 8y ago
        Tax optimization works too: https://youtu.be/Bz2-49q6DOI https://youtu.be/Bz2-49q6DOI
    - dsajames 8y ago
      Look at other planned economies. They're horrible. No single group can predict the future. What people need to do is think like responsibly put limits on their adventures. These are grown ass men and women. They are responsible for themselves and if they choose to risk it all on a passion, they have nobody to blame, especially when the money is constantly telling to do something else.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
mengledowl 8y ago
For those that are interested in this concept, Cal Newport wrote a fantastic book about this concept of developing a passion rather than "finding" it in his book "So Good They Can't Ignore You". Very highly recommend.
- wonderbear 8y ago
  That is an excellent book, and expounds on the ideas in this article.
- peralmq 8y ago
  Also the work from Angela Lee Duckworth are on this subject. https://www.ted.com/talks/angela_lee_duckworth_grit_the_power_of_passion_and_perseverance https://www.ted.com/talks/angela_lee_duckworth_grit_the_powe... Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance https://g.co/kgs/tprZP4 https://g.co/kgs/tprZP4
- SyneRyder 8y ago
  Also, it's currently on sale on Kindle (looks like $2.22 on the US store, $2.99 on the Australian store). I'm not sure what I think of the book yet, but people I respect have rated it highly.
  - nift 8y ago
    Doesn't seem to be on sale for kindle anymore? When I go to the Amazon US it costs $10.52. Do you have a direct link?
    - SyneRyder 8y ago
      Yup, still showing for sale on Kindle here for $2.22 US, also tried visiting via a US VPN: https://www.amazon.com/Good-They-Cant-Ignore-You-ebook/dp/B01KFR64LQ/ https://www.amazon.com/Good-They-Cant-Ignore-You-ebook/dp/B0... But I'm in Australia, so it's possible it's an Australia-only sale, even though I'm looking on the US site. Edit: Also, here's the direct Amazon Australia link: https://www.amazon.com.au/Good-They-Cant-Ignore-You-ebook/dp/B01KFR64LQ/ https://www.amazon.com.au/Good-They-Cant-Ignore-You-ebook/dp...
PakG1 8y ago
A similar sentiment: http://blogmaverick.com/2012/03/18/dont-follow-your-passion-follow-your-effort/ http://blogmaverick.com/2012/03/18/dont-follow-your-passion-...
- redmaverick 8y ago
  Not really: 3. Find a job you love. Cuban says there's an easy way to tell if you've found a job that can help you build a career. "If it matters how much you get paid, you are not in a job you really love," he writes. This doesn't mean that you should not strive to make as much money as possible, but you need to prioritize your passion over your paycheck if you want to put yourself on a rewarding career path that allows you to thrive. "If you love what you do so much that you are willing to continue to live like a student in order to be able to stay in the job, you have found your calling," Cuban writes. 4. Be the best you can be. Once you've found your calling, whatever it is, you should have only one goal, Cuban says: "to be the best in the world at it."
  - sethrin 8y ago
    Hmm. What if I live like a student because I am slightly lazy, I have modest needs, and I'm paralyzed by fear and self-doubt?
stareatgoats 8y ago
"Follow your passion" is the answer to a specific outlier problem; when people find themselves in a place that doesn't resonate with their passions at all (or to large degree), with dire effects on their psyche and well-being. It doesn't apply to everyone, most eventually find a reasonable balance in my experience, but some people need that impetus ("follow your passion") to leave a for them toxic situation.
Hoasi 8y ago
> And the idea that passions are found fully formed implies that the number of interests a person has is limited. Never met someone whose passion was "found fully formed" though... Either way if you want to make a living out of your interest you need to develop your passion/talent. Passion alone will get you nowhere without (years of) training. Use common sense.
pasta 8y ago
"Being narrowly focused on one area could prevent individuals from developing knowledge in other areas that could be important to their field at a later time" When I try something new I alwayd remember this. Sometimes doing things you like can feel like a waste of time because we always hear we need to be productive.
anoplus 8y ago
I explore passion because I think there are things more "economical" to be passionate about. I am now a software developer. When I was in high-school I didn't get the point of computers beyond playing pc games all summer long. I just heard once in a while "if you pick cumputers major you will have a descent job". I was a painter in high-school. I wanted to create amazing and realistic paintings to wow everyone. And I wowed everyone. The passion to wow people was beyond school grades, parties and sleeping hours. After high school I lost my art passion immediately (art is not practical) and explored my passions again. I want to solve real problems and finally got the "purpose" of computers in the world. I found that I enjoy almost everything I do if stress free. I love working, cleaning, cooking, shopping, fixing, gardening, eating slowly, as long I am not rushing. Cleaning and gardening are great "exercise" you activate a lot of muscles with a reward at the end. Clean house and nice garden. When I do it I try to forget about time which turns it to an ecstasy almost. There is one thing that is obviously worthy to be passionate about which I am struggeling to crack for years (although improving much). Passion for people. Many tasks that involve people are often a pain for me. I love people but its hard to "just call someone". Just "invite someone to hang out". Maybe is because "just hangout with someone" is not clearly defined. What is the point? what do we want to talk about? I don't socialize a lot outside of work. Why people prefer video games over socializing? I find this topic facinating...
- hypertexthero 8y ago
  > Now if we examine our life, our relationship with another, we shall see that it is a process of isolation. We are really not concerned with another; though we talk a great deal about it, actually we are not concerned. We are related to someone only so long as that relationship gratifies us, so long as it gives us a refuge, so long as it satisfies us. But the moment there is a disturbance in the relationship which produces discomfort in ourselves, we discard that relationship. In other words, there is relationship only so long as we are gratified. This may sound harsh, but if you really examine your life very closely you will see it is a fact; and to avoid a fact is to live in ignorance, which can never produce right relationship. If we look into our lives and observe relationship, we see it is a process of building resistance against another, a wall over which we look and observe the other; but we always retain the wall and remain behind it, whether it be a psychological wall, a material wall, an economic wall or a national wall. So long as we live in isolation, behind a wall, there is no relationship with another; and we live enclosed because it is much more gratifying, we think it is much more secure. The world is so disruptive, there is so much sorrow, so much pain, war, destruction, misery, that we want to escape and live within the walls of security of our own psychological being. So, relationship with most of us is actually a process of isolation, and obviously such relationship builds a society which is also isolating. That is exactly what is happening throughout the world: you remain in your isolation and stretch your hand over the wall, calling it nationalism, brotherhood or what you will, but actually sovereign governments, armies, continue. Still clinging to your own limitations, you think you can create world unity, world peace - which is impossible. So long as you have a frontier, whether national, economic, religious or social, it is an obvious fact that there cannot be peace in the world. — From The First and Last Freedom by J. Krishnamurti, Chapter 14: Relationship And Isolation
throwaway0255 8y ago
I've found that usually when people say they're "passionate" about something, what they're really saying is that they have a deep yearning for the high social status they would attain if they were great at or well-known for that thing. Also, that they believe their status is higher because they're passionate about that thing, and they wanted to remind you of that. Half the time it's something they don't even devote very much time to, and aren't even that good at. That might be why these "follow your passion" speeches are so effective. Everyone in the audience can have a different high-status activity in mind, and the word "passion" is like a global variable that maps straight to whatever every individual believes is the best way to achieve high social status. So you get the whole audience, and everyone can start daydreaming in unison.
- 3minus1 8y ago
  Most everyone would agree that it's not really a passion if you don't devote much time to it.
- wufufufu 8y ago
  > I've found that usually when people say they're "passionate" about something, what they're really saying is that they have a deep yearning for the high social status they would attain if they were great at or well-known for that thing. This is you projecting your own motivations onto others.
  - Noumenon72 8y ago
    This is you denying innate motivations because you don't consciously think about things that way.
drasticmeasures 8y ago
What I'm finding instead is that, in some sub-fields, psychology isn't developed enough to give life advice that's not going to be contradicted later, no matter if it's Stanford scholars or not.
mark_l_watson 8y ago
Good article but for much more detailed argument I like Cal Newport’s books like Be So Good They Can’t Ignore You better. I had a summer job programming in 1970 and really didn’t like it, but I was making something like $5/hour and learned FORTRAN. When I graduated with a BS in Physics and wanted a job I took a scientific programming job. I thought, ‘yuck, oh well.’ Funny thing was, after about 6 months I realized how good I was and that made it fun. I even gave up all free time for 2 years to take undergraduate and graduate CS classes at a local university. Yes, the better you get at something, the more fun it sometimes is.
- NetOpWibby 8y ago
  I can vouch for this.

318 points by mengledowl 8y ago

I think finding your passion is as much as finding what you are not passionate about. Its the reason why I like trying out so many things - I want to find what I truly don't enjoy. When I was in school, I did 2 years of research. Some of it was photovoltaics research (solar cells) and I also did some shape memory alloys research used in space-grade actuators. I found myself not enjoying it at all. On my metallurgical project, I would go to the lab, have to handle the most monotonous task just to test one sample. One sample took 100 hours to prepare and had very little tolerance for error. The equipment I used was kind of outdated as well. I spent several hours everyday grinding a titanium billet the size of a miniature 1/2" knife so I could check its hardness and elasticity before I loaded it into the scanning electron microscope. I lost my samples quite a few times so I had to start over by creating a new billet in the arc furnace. In the end, the data I got had too much noise and basically didn't equate to enough to publish a paper. I still defended my thesis anyhow though. I did learn alot along the way spending hours reading graduate level papers. The research might have helped understand actuation failure for space grade components. But really I felt like I was crawling at a snails pacing with the work I did. I enjoy doing things for myself first and foremost. I find what I am most passionate about really boils down to things I did as a kid. I used to make my own modded starcraft maps in elementary school. I would download a popular map, throw it in the editor, add new logic, so I could make a game either (1) more interesting or (2) add cheats and exploits for myself. It was fun. I also built my own computer as a kid too - debugging hardware was always painful, but the moment it clicked it felt so satisfying. Other ways I find things I am and am not passionate about. I subscribe to about 800 things on youtube that I find fascinating. Most of it is related to a combination of math, computer science, electrical and mechanical engineering. Personally I have a serious deficit knowledge on all 4 of them, but I am always learning new things everyday. I still suck at math though and I can't seem to understand how to do mathmatical induction and/or proofs though. I spent a lot of my freetime programming because this is the easiest subject to pick up of the ones mentioned above. Its also profitable. I think its okay to be passionate about more than one thing so long as it falls under the same umbrella of things you want to do - building cool stuff. And that its okay to not spend as much time workong on them due to time constraints. I also am pretty good at welding (200+ hours) and 3D modeling as well, among other things. Ultimately my dream is to become a 10x engineer. Someone who is so good at building anything with their mind and hands that I could create new works of art. I take inspiration from a variety of leaders in those industries - from all age groups.

MrRubbish 8y ago

passion—strong and barely controllable emotion. "a man of impetuous passion" Sounds like a self-centeres, obsessive and unhealthy activity. Time for some self-control? There’s no magic, passions don’t materialise. Get a grip.

rdlecler1 8y ago

It makes for a nice aspirational graduation speech, but as many PhDs will attest passion doesn’t matter much if society doesn’t value your passion and you need to put food on the table.

wazoox 8y ago
Yup. And see the terrible situations is all and every vocational and artistic occupations. Competition is so fierce that almost everyone has to work basically for free and sustain themselves by doing menial job on the side. You could argue that most of them would be better finding a life occupation they're at least merely interested in instead, but providing decent living, and keeping their passion as a hobby. (I've been a professional musician many years ago, merely scraping by from gig to gig with some piano teaching).
- im3w1l 8y ago
  I can't help but wonder if a planned economy would be better, someone who said "you're good enough, pursue this we will support you economically", or said "sorry you didn't make the cut you'll have to develop a passion for something else".
  - Noos 8y ago
    Would you like to be told to develop a passion for cleaning toilets?
    - rzzzt 8y ago
      Tax optimization works too: https://youtu.be/Bz2-49q6DOI https://youtu.be/Bz2-49q6DOI
  - dsajames 8y ago
    Look at other planned economies. They're horrible. No single group can predict the future. What people need to do is think like responsibly put limits on their adventures. These are grown ass men and women. They are responsible for themselves and if they choose to risk it all on a passion, they have nobody to blame, especially when the money is constantly telling to do something else.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

mengledowl 8y ago

For those that are interested in this concept, Cal Newport wrote a fantastic book about this concept of developing a passion rather than "finding" it in his book "So Good They Can't Ignore You". Very highly recommend.

wonderbear 8y ago
That is an excellent book, and expounds on the ideas in this article.
peralmq 8y ago
Also the work from Angela Lee Duckworth are on this subject. https://www.ted.com/talks/angela_lee_duckworth_grit_the_power_of_passion_and_perseverance https://www.ted.com/talks/angela_lee_duckworth_grit_the_powe... Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance https://g.co/kgs/tprZP4 https://g.co/kgs/tprZP4
SyneRyder 8y ago
Also, it's currently on sale on Kindle (looks like $2.22 on the US store, $2.99 on the Australian store). I'm not sure what I think of the book yet, but people I respect have rated it highly.
- nift 8y ago
  Doesn't seem to be on sale for kindle anymore? When I go to the Amazon US it costs $10.52. Do you have a direct link?
  - SyneRyder 8y ago
    Yup, still showing for sale on Kindle here for $2.22 US, also tried visiting via a US VPN: https://www.amazon.com/Good-They-Cant-Ignore-You-ebook/dp/B01KFR64LQ/ https://www.amazon.com/Good-They-Cant-Ignore-You-ebook/dp/B0... But I'm in Australia, so it's possible it's an Australia-only sale, even though I'm looking on the US site. Edit: Also, here's the direct Amazon Australia link: https://www.amazon.com.au/Good-They-Cant-Ignore-You-ebook/dp/B01KFR64LQ/ https://www.amazon.com.au/Good-They-Cant-Ignore-You-ebook/dp...

PakG1 8y ago

A similar sentiment: http://blogmaverick.com/2012/03/18/dont-follow-your-passion-follow-your-effort/ http://blogmaverick.com/2012/03/18/dont-follow-your-passion-...

redmaverick 8y ago
Not really: 3. Find a job you love. Cuban says there's an easy way to tell if you've found a job that can help you build a career. "If it matters how much you get paid, you are not in a job you really love," he writes. This doesn't mean that you should not strive to make as much money as possible, but you need to prioritize your passion over your paycheck if you want to put yourself on a rewarding career path that allows you to thrive. "If you love what you do so much that you are willing to continue to live like a student in order to be able to stay in the job, you have found your calling," Cuban writes. 4. Be the best you can be. Once you've found your calling, whatever it is, you should have only one goal, Cuban says: "to be the best in the world at it."
- sethrin 8y ago
  Hmm. What if I live like a student because I am slightly lazy, I have modest needs, and I'm paralyzed by fear and self-doubt?

stareatgoats 8y ago

"Follow your passion" is the answer to a specific outlier problem; when people find themselves in a place that doesn't resonate with their passions at all (or to large degree), with dire effects on their psyche and well-being. It doesn't apply to everyone, most eventually find a reasonable balance in my experience, but some people need that impetus ("follow your passion") to leave a for them toxic situation.

Hoasi 8y ago

> And the idea that passions are found fully formed implies that the number of interests a person has is limited. Never met someone whose passion was "found fully formed" though... Either way if you want to make a living out of your interest you need to develop your passion/talent. Passion alone will get you nowhere without (years of) training. Use common sense.

pasta 8y ago

"Being narrowly focused on one area could prevent individuals from developing knowledge in other areas that could be important to their field at a later time" When I try something new I alwayd remember this. Sometimes doing things you like can feel like a waste of time because we always hear we need to be productive.

anoplus 8y ago

I explore passion because I think there are things more "economical" to be passionate about. I am now a software developer. When I was in high-school I didn't get the point of computers beyond playing pc games all summer long. I just heard once in a while "if you pick cumputers major you will have a descent job". I was a painter in high-school. I wanted to create amazing and realistic paintings to wow everyone. And I wowed everyone. The passion to wow people was beyond school grades, parties and sleeping hours. After high school I lost my art passion immediately (art is not practical) and explored my passions again. I want to solve real problems and finally got the "purpose" of computers in the world. I found that I enjoy almost everything I do if stress free. I love working, cleaning, cooking, shopping, fixing, gardening, eating slowly, as long I am not rushing. Cleaning and gardening are great "exercise" you activate a lot of muscles with a reward at the end. Clean house and nice garden. When I do it I try to forget about time which turns it to an ecstasy almost. There is one thing that is obviously worthy to be passionate about which I am struggeling to crack for years (although improving much). Passion for people. Many tasks that involve people are often a pain for me. I love people but its hard to "just call someone". Just "invite someone to hang out". Maybe is because "just hangout with someone" is not clearly defined. What is the point? what do we want to talk about? I don't socialize a lot outside of work. Why people prefer video games over socializing? I find this topic facinating...

hypertexthero 8y ago
> Now if we examine our life, our relationship with another, we shall see that it is a process of isolation. We are really not concerned with another; though we talk a great deal about it, actually we are not concerned. We are related to someone only so long as that relationship gratifies us, so long as it gives us a refuge, so long as it satisfies us. But the moment there is a disturbance in the relationship which produces discomfort in ourselves, we discard that relationship. In other words, there is relationship only so long as we are gratified. This may sound harsh, but if you really examine your life very closely you will see it is a fact; and to avoid a fact is to live in ignorance, which can never produce right relationship. If we look into our lives and observe relationship, we see it is a process of building resistance against another, a wall over which we look and observe the other; but we always retain the wall and remain behind it, whether it be a psychological wall, a material wall, an economic wall or a national wall. So long as we live in isolation, behind a wall, there is no relationship with another; and we live enclosed because it is much more gratifying, we think it is much more secure. The world is so disruptive, there is so much sorrow, so much pain, war, destruction, misery, that we want to escape and live within the walls of security of our own psychological being. So, relationship with most of us is actually a process of isolation, and obviously such relationship builds a society which is also isolating. That is exactly what is happening throughout the world: you remain in your isolation and stretch your hand over the wall, calling it nationalism, brotherhood or what you will, but actually sovereign governments, armies, continue. Still clinging to your own limitations, you think you can create world unity, world peace - which is impossible. So long as you have a frontier, whether national, economic, religious or social, it is an obvious fact that there cannot be peace in the world. — From The First and Last Freedom by J. Krishnamurti, Chapter 14: Relationship And Isolation

throwaway0255 8y ago

I've found that usually when people say they're "passionate" about something, what they're really saying is that they have a deep yearning for the high social status they would attain if they were great at or well-known for that thing. Also, that they believe their status is higher because they're passionate about that thing, and they wanted to remind you of that. Half the time it's something they don't even devote very much time to, and aren't even that good at. That might be why these "follow your passion" speeches are so effective. Everyone in the audience can have a different high-status activity in mind, and the word "passion" is like a global variable that maps straight to whatever every individual believes is the best way to achieve high social status. So you get the whole audience, and everyone can start daydreaming in unison.

3minus1 8y ago
Most everyone would agree that it's not really a passion if you don't devote much time to it.
wufufufu 8y ago
> I've found that usually when people say they're "passionate" about something, what they're really saying is that they have a deep yearning for the high social status they would attain if they were great at or well-known for that thing. This is you projecting your own motivations onto others.
- Noumenon72 8y ago
  This is you denying innate motivations because you don't consciously think about things that way.

drasticmeasures 8y ago

What I'm finding instead is that, in some sub-fields, psychology isn't developed enough to give life advice that's not going to be contradicted later, no matter if it's Stanford scholars or not.

mark_l_watson 8y ago

Good article but for much more detailed argument I like Cal Newport’s books like Be So Good They Can’t Ignore You better. I had a summer job programming in 1970 and really didn’t like it, but I was making something like $5/hour and learned FORTRAN. When I graduated with a BS in Physics and wanted a job I took a scientific programming job. I thought, ‘yuck, oh well.’ Funny thing was, after about 6 months I realized how good I was and that made it fun. I even gave up all free time for 2 years to take undergraduate and graduate CS classes at a local university. Yes, the better you get at something, the more fun it sometimes is.

NetOpWibby 8y ago
I can vouch for this.