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I am a huge Tesla fan (and Elon fan). I own stock (shortly after IPO). I have a model 3 reservation. I have been singing their praises for a long time. Elon is

I am a huge Tesla fan (and Elon fan). I own stock (shortly after IPO). I have a model 3 reservation. I have been singing their praises for a long time. Elon is an incredible visionary and probably an incredible engineer. This is a great combination for making the impossible possible. And I totally agree with this article. If not a new CEO, Tesla needs a good COO. They need excellent, consistent execution, not novel, groundbreaking execution. They have 100's of thousands of reservations for the 3 (and I don't know how many powerwall and solar roof reservations). If they can just execute on this, the world is theirs. But if they continue to have delays and major, public mistakes like the model 3 ramp, my stock purchase may have been a poor choice.

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shanghaiaway 8y ago
Musk is not an engineer.
- aphextron 8y ago
  He holds a BS in Engineering Physics.
  - 35bge57dtjku 8y ago
    That doesn't make him an engineer.
    - MereInterest 8y ago
      There seem to be two different senses of what an "engineer" is. In one sense, it is "someone who has trained as an engineer", and in the other it is "someone who does engineering". Elon Musk fits the first, because he has trained as an engineer, but does not fit the second, because he is currently employed as CEO. I fit the second, because I am currently employed as an engineer, but do not fit the first, because I was trained as a physicist. If you are arguing semantics, please take care to understand that not everybody has the same definitions of words as you do. Without the context of how you interpret words, your posts will fail to convey reasonable information.
      - raverbashing 8y ago
        In a lot of places, "engineer" is only for those who have the recognition of their professional body. But those (while they might be good professionals) are not doing what Elon is doing. So if that's the case I might say that saying Elon is not an engineer is a compliment.
      - jimmaswell 8y ago
        He's the second too. "But actually almost all my time, like 80% of it, is spent on engineering and design. Engineering and design, so it's developing next-generation product. That's 80% of it." "At Tesla, it's working on the Model3 and, yeah, so I'm in the design studio, take up a half a day a week, dealing with aesthetics and look-and-feel things. And then most of the rest of the week is just going through engineering of the car itself as well as engineering of the factory." https://www.quora.com/In-Tesla-and-SpaceX-how-much-of-the-technical-designing-is-Elon-Musk-involved-in https://www.quora.com/In-Tesla-and-SpaceX-how-much-of-the-te...
- icelancer 8y ago
  He's not a licensed one, but he's a better engineer than 99.9% of HN and all the engineers I employ. So, call it what you want.
  - jotm 8y ago
    I think the US definition of engineer is the best. Around here, anyone who works on any device is an "engineer". It's fucking hilarious when a Gas Safe registered "engineer" can't figure out how to replace your boiler pump. What a racket.
carlivar 8y ago
They only have delays from their CEO's promises. Had he set expectations more realistically the stock might not be such a roller coaster and deposit holders would have had more accurate estimates. If you eliminate every time table Musk has said and evaluate Tesla only what they've done so far, which is a simple Model 3 ramp up from scratch, perhaps they look more impressive.
- osteele 8y ago
  I expect a more conservative CEO would have been better at setting and meeting expectations, worse at marketing, and maybe worse at thereby gaining access to capital under favorable terms (including via reservations). A traditional CEO would have been better for investors looking for low volatility (but then why are they in TSLA?); maybe not so good for Tesla and its supporters.
martythemaniak 8y ago
There will come a time when Musk needs to step away from Tesla, but that day is not today. He's publicly mused about stepping away (SpaceX is his real fav), but had his tenure renewed recently. If all Tesla did was sell pretty good cars, they'd probably get crushed by the incumbents. Tesla, is selling way more than that - they're selling the idea of a brighter, better future. You're not just buying an EV, but you're helping climate change, you're reducing pollution, you'll be reducing human death and suffering and ending traffic jams and hey - it all comes in a exclusive, technologically-advanced, aesthetically pleasing package. Now, some might object that this is largely a bunch of marketing/PR bullshit, and you will likely be technically correct, but would still miss the point. If people wanted a nice, efficient EV, they'd buy the Bolt, which by all accounts, is pretty damn good. But Tesla sells this "bullshit" because it's what people actually want to buy, and EVs happen to be the delivery vehicle. So as much as you might dislike this "bullshit", it's a core reason why Tesla even exists in 2018. Where does Musk fit into this? He happens to be the personification of this idea today. In the popular mind he is "cool" so when you buy a Tesla, you're also implicitly buying part of this cool, much like buying an iPhone back in the day got you a part of Jobs' cool. Eventually Tesla will become it's own thing (as Apple is today) and outgrow Musk, but that's still years away. OTOH, if you want to know what's actually going on at Tesla and what they need, this will probably give you the best idea out of any material on the internet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpCrkO1x-Qo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpCrkO1x-Qo It's an in-depth interview with a guy who owns a consultancy which disassembles, analyses and sells reports on vehicles, both for manufacturers looking for research on their competitors and at improving their own products. His findings are extremely interesting - he's downright astounded at how incredible parts of the car are (battery, electronics) and thinks established companies should be quacking in their boots. OTOH, he thinks they've made a number of blunders in other parts, such as their production line design or parts of the car (for example, he thinks the body is 20-25% heavier than it needs to be, with parts that serve no discernable purpose)
- cm2187 8y ago
  I wonder how many people buy Teslas because they think it will save the planet vs because they think it has a lot of torque
paladin314159 8y ago
He intends to step away from Tesla, but he doesn't think now is the right time. His vision and leadership are necessary to get Tesla to the point where the Model 3 has taken off -- after that, he'll hand over the reigns and focus on other stuff (SpaceX, Neuralink).
lechiffre10 8y ago
That's not the only issue they face. Tesla is on a downward spiral and can't make money off a 35k base model. They owe a lot of money to creditors and all it takes is for one of them to recall the debt owed and other creditors will follow. I'd strongly suggest reading this article: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-19/more-hilarious-facts-about-tesla https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-19/more-hilarious-fac...
- icelancer 8y ago
  I was really interested in what you had to say, since it was relatively different from what I've heard, then I saw a link to ZeroHedge and... well, do you have another source that isn't ridiculous?
- lawrenceyan 8y ago
  Zero Hedge is a joke
- prostoalex 8y ago
  > it takes is for one of them to recall the debt owed That’s not how corporate bonds work.
  - sgc 8y ago
    Exactly, it was simply fearmongering. People can't just call loans due because they want to.
  - femidav 8y ago
    Bonds can be sold, thus lowering their price and making it harder for Tesla to sell new bonds.
ryanmarsh 8y ago
In that vein there are many people who believe Apple’s* most important hire was not Jony Ive but Tim Cook. Tim built the machine that allowed for the type of manufacturing and logistics execution you see at Apple today. * I say Apple’s hire because Jony joined during Steve’s gap in tenure
loceng 8y ago
As long as Elon is learning, increasing his understanding, and implementing improvements to these systems and efficiencies - and he does publicly discuss these fairly often - then they'll be fine.

deleted 8y ago

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deleted 8y ago

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shanghaiaway 8y ago

Musk is not an engineer.

aphextron 8y ago
He holds a BS in Engineering Physics.
- 35bge57dtjku 8y ago
  That doesn't make him an engineer.
  - MereInterest 8y ago
    There seem to be two different senses of what an "engineer" is. In one sense, it is "someone who has trained as an engineer", and in the other it is "someone who does engineering". Elon Musk fits the first, because he has trained as an engineer, but does not fit the second, because he is currently employed as CEO. I fit the second, because I am currently employed as an engineer, but do not fit the first, because I was trained as a physicist. If you are arguing semantics, please take care to understand that not everybody has the same definitions of words as you do. Without the context of how you interpret words, your posts will fail to convey reasonable information.
    - raverbashing 8y ago
      In a lot of places, "engineer" is only for those who have the recognition of their professional body. But those (while they might be good professionals) are not doing what Elon is doing. So if that's the case I might say that saying Elon is not an engineer is a compliment.
    - jimmaswell 8y ago
      He's the second too. "But actually almost all my time, like 80% of it, is spent on engineering and design. Engineering and design, so it's developing next-generation product. That's 80% of it." "At Tesla, it's working on the Model3 and, yeah, so I'm in the design studio, take up a half a day a week, dealing with aesthetics and look-and-feel things. And then most of the rest of the week is just going through engineering of the car itself as well as engineering of the factory." https://www.quora.com/In-Tesla-and-SpaceX-how-much-of-the-technical-designing-is-Elon-Musk-involved-in https://www.quora.com/In-Tesla-and-SpaceX-how-much-of-the-te...
icelancer 8y ago
He's not a licensed one, but he's a better engineer than 99.9% of HN and all the engineers I employ. So, call it what you want.
- jotm 8y ago
  I think the US definition of engineer is the best. Around here, anyone who works on any device is an "engineer". It's fucking hilarious when a Gas Safe registered "engineer" can't figure out how to replace your boiler pump. What a racket.

carlivar 8y ago

They only have delays from their CEO's promises. Had he set expectations more realistically the stock might not be such a roller coaster and deposit holders would have had more accurate estimates. If you eliminate every time table Musk has said and evaluate Tesla only what they've done so far, which is a simple Model 3 ramp up from scratch, perhaps they look more impressive.

osteele 8y ago
I expect a more conservative CEO would have been better at setting and meeting expectations, worse at marketing, and maybe worse at thereby gaining access to capital under favorable terms (including via reservations). A traditional CEO would have been better for investors looking for low volatility (but then why are they in TSLA?); maybe not so good for Tesla and its supporters.

martythemaniak 8y ago

There will come a time when Musk needs to step away from Tesla, but that day is not today. He's publicly mused about stepping away (SpaceX is his real fav), but had his tenure renewed recently. If all Tesla did was sell pretty good cars, they'd probably get crushed by the incumbents. Tesla, is selling way more than that - they're selling the idea of a brighter, better future. You're not just buying an EV, but you're helping climate change, you're reducing pollution, you'll be reducing human death and suffering and ending traffic jams and hey - it all comes in a exclusive, technologically-advanced, aesthetically pleasing package. Now, some might object that this is largely a bunch of marketing/PR bullshit, and you will likely be technically correct, but would still miss the point. If people wanted a nice, efficient EV, they'd buy the Bolt, which by all accounts, is pretty damn good. But Tesla sells this "bullshit" because it's what people actually want to buy, and EVs happen to be the delivery vehicle. So as much as you might dislike this "bullshit", it's a core reason why Tesla even exists in 2018. Where does Musk fit into this? He happens to be the personification of this idea today. In the popular mind he is "cool" so when you buy a Tesla, you're also implicitly buying part of this cool, much like buying an iPhone back in the day got you a part of Jobs' cool. Eventually Tesla will become it's own thing (as Apple is today) and outgrow Musk, but that's still years away. OTOH, if you want to know what's actually going on at Tesla and what they need, this will probably give you the best idea out of any material on the internet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpCrkO1x-Qo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpCrkO1x-Qo It's an in-depth interview with a guy who owns a consultancy which disassembles, analyses and sells reports on vehicles, both for manufacturers looking for research on their competitors and at improving their own products. His findings are extremely interesting - he's downright astounded at how incredible parts of the car are (battery, electronics) and thinks established companies should be quacking in their boots. OTOH, he thinks they've made a number of blunders in other parts, such as their production line design or parts of the car (for example, he thinks the body is 20-25% heavier than it needs to be, with parts that serve no discernable purpose)

cm2187 8y ago
I wonder how many people buy Teslas because they think it will save the planet vs because they think it has a lot of torque

paladin314159 8y ago

He intends to step away from Tesla, but he doesn't think now is the right time. His vision and leadership are necessary to get Tesla to the point where the Model 3 has taken off -- after that, he'll hand over the reigns and focus on other stuff (SpaceX, Neuralink).

lechiffre10 8y ago

That's not the only issue they face. Tesla is on a downward spiral and can't make money off a 35k base model. They owe a lot of money to creditors and all it takes is for one of them to recall the debt owed and other creditors will follow. I'd strongly suggest reading this article: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-19/more-hilarious-facts-about-tesla https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-04-19/more-hilarious-fac...

icelancer 8y ago
I was really interested in what you had to say, since it was relatively different from what I've heard, then I saw a link to ZeroHedge and... well, do you have another source that isn't ridiculous?
lawrenceyan 8y ago
Zero Hedge is a joke
prostoalex 8y ago
> it takes is for one of them to recall the debt owed That’s not how corporate bonds work.
- sgc 8y ago
  Exactly, it was simply fearmongering. People can't just call loans due because they want to.
- femidav 8y ago
  Bonds can be sold, thus lowering their price and making it harder for Tesla to sell new bonds.

ryanmarsh 8y ago

In that vein there are many people who believe Apple’s* most important hire was not Jony Ive but Tim Cook. Tim built the machine that allowed for the type of manufacturing and logistics execution you see at Apple today. * I say Apple’s hire because Jony joined during Steve’s gap in tenure

loceng 8y ago

As long as Elon is learning, increasing his understanding, and implementing improvements to these systems and efficiencies - and he does publicly discuss these fairly often - then they'll be fine.