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I work at Google. It is the most unpleasant place to work, largely because work evaluation is almost 80% politics (might be 100%). I am a senior engineer. You g

• klausjensen 9y ago
  Friend - Get out. Many of us have been there, and it is not worth that feeling in your stomach every morning, because it drains the life out of you, can cause all kinds of physical and emotional problems. Go take a job somewhere else, where you might earn less - but will be less miserable - or maybe even happy. Get out.
  • deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
• izacus 9y ago
  These kind of posts (and the amount of anti-Google articles here) make me think that Google is currently targeted by paid trolling/smear campaign.
  • lettergram 9y ago
    Perhaps, but that user has been on HN since 2011 - not many posts though
    • tomp 9y ago
      Old social media accounts are available for sale exactly because they look more legitimate. (I'm just pointing a general fact, not that the user in question is a shill.) I read an article describing the fenomenon, I can't find it now but there's plenty of interesting results if you search Google.
      • ocdtrekkie 9y ago
        phenomenon*: Couldn't help myself. I'd be surprised if people were selling HN accounts for this purpose, it's much easier to reach a larger audience, and have more impact, on a general social media site than HN. I wouldn't suspect the practice is likely to happen here.
  • xienze 9y ago
    Maybe there are actual people that feel this way? Crazy, I know. Oh who am I kidding, it must be Russians.
  • chapill 9y ago
    Account created: 2011. You're suggesting someone was planning to smear Google on HN since 7 years ago?
    • Parcissons 9y ago
      And thus a new type of conspiracy was created. The coniseur conspiracy- only imagining enemys - when they are classy and willing to put in the effort, deep schmin.. with a small taste of oak barrel.
  • _wmd 9y ago
    a much simpler explanation exists: their workplace sucks (ex-Googler, have yet to read anything genuinely surprising in the past few weeks)
    • izacus 9y ago
      True, but it's also a very biased view with events that take place in most of large companies (you can find these reports for Amazon, Apple, etc. etc.) And yet others seem to get a free pass while Google is targeted by wrath of HN. Why?
      • Clanan 9y ago
        It could be because we're in a thread discussing a court case about possible discrimination at Google...
      • driverdan 9y ago
        Amazon has been highly criticized here. Apple much less so for reasons that aren't clear to me.
        • chapill 9y ago
          Mostly because Apple has legions of fanatics which are well established here. Apple gets criticism, you just don't get to see it unless you change your prefs to show flagged/dead posts. It's ironic, because Apple fans were painted as carrying the sledge hammer of inconvenient truth, not acting like the grey drones who oppress all differences of opinion in the 1984 commercial.
      • millzlane 9y ago
        It's because people think there is discrimination in tech against Caucasians.
• eclipxe 9y ago
  I feel the exact opposite. I love going to work everyday at Google. I get the way you describe at previous companies. Not at Google.
  • Cthulhu_ 9y ago
    Maybe you two should compare where you work and what you do; Google's a big company with over 72.000 employees, it's highly unlikely everyone has the same experience worldwide.
    • memo_ree 9y ago
      Exactly, two engineers could have an entirely different experience based on their team. Engineers can transfer to different teams too, though that team will obviously look at the engineer's history of performance.
      • izacus 9y ago
        Two engineers on the same team can even have vastly different experience. Google is big enough that it attracts a huge spectrum of engineers and one person's hellish workplace is another person's bliss.
  • pizza234 9y ago
    How long have you been working at Google and what's your position (if you don't mind the question)? Both factors may make a significant difference in the judgment of "working at Google" (I don't imply anything, either negative or positive).
    • deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
• yupyup 9y ago
  If you don't mind me asking... Why do you continue working there?
  • kelukelugames 9y ago
    Pay attention to what people do more than what people say. People vote with their feet. A senior engineer at Google can easily get a high paying job anywhere else.
    • deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    • deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
• bitL 9y ago
  Consider deleting this post. You can be easily doxxed from your HN post history; it's not worth it.
  • hkmurakami 9y ago
    Seconded.
  • epx 9y ago
    Which confirms what he said?
    • bitL 9y ago
      It's not only about malicious actors within the company; they might end up in some sort of external blacklist scrapped off HN that would complicate their life once they depart their current company. It's best to have 0 private opinion trace on doxxable accounts these days and usual VPN + Tor circuit.
  • 84Winston 9y ago
    No way. He will suffer no consequences for speaking out. Everybody can speak their mind freely and reason and objectivity will prevail. We've always been at war with Eastasia.
  • Slansitartop 9y ago
    Once there's a reply it can't be deleted, only edited to remove the content. After two hours that's not even an option anymore. Generally, I think it's good policy to be very guarded on the internet and/or change accounts often. There are all kinds of awful people out there, and you can't control who you may come across.
    • cpeterso 9y ago
      It doesn't hurt to try emailing the HN contact address hn@ycombinator.com asking to remove or edit a post after the time limit.
  • 9y ago
• walshemj 9y ago
  Performance systems are always political and if you are unlucky driven by Dogbert in hr who's bonus is based on cutting the pay quanta.
  • pmarreck 9y ago
    I have nothing but loathing for performance evaluation metrics... which is partly why I’m a solo dev right now
• hi41 9y ago
  I found this shocking. How did this come to be? Don't places like Google reward people based on merit. Isn't it the hallowed ground for egalitarianism? I read an article about the hiring practices at Google that spoke highly about it.
  • Slansitartop 9y ago
    Honestly, I'm not so surprised. A lot of stuff about employment Google reads like hagiographies. Maybe it was that way in the distant past, but its most notable perks (20% time, etc.) have been cut and it's big and publicly traded now, so rot has definitely had time to set in.
    • memo_ree 9y ago
      20% projects have been cut? I wish someone told me that before I started a 20% project which spanned multiple quarters, and still did well in my last performance review. If an engineer isn't doing well on their 80% project, a 20% project might be frowned upon, that is true.
      • Eridrus 9y ago
        The refrain I hear is that you can do 20% projects, but you have to do it on top of your 100% project, which isn't contradicted by what you say.
        • memo_ree 9y ago
          So that refrain seems to imply the 20% project must be done as additional work after spending 40 hours a week on the 100% project. My point was you actually can spend roughly 32 hours a week on your main project, if you are performing well, and then roughly 8 hours a week on your 20% project, and still get high performance ratings.
          • Eridrus 9y ago
            But do managers adjust their expectations of your main project to 0.8 of expected output? Sure if you can get everything expected of you done in 32 hours, you can spend the remaining 8 on something else.
• nojvek 9y ago
  Oh man. That is quite a twist to the Google of 2010. But I guess any company that crosses 10,000 people mark will have heavy politics. Google makes so much money from ads, it doesn’t know what to do. Like Microsoft, so much middle management that from customer pain to engineers, requirements are loaded with a ton of personal agenda and political gain.
• thorwawayforg 9y ago
  Can you tell me more about this? I have interviewed at google 2 times now. The first interview I bombed -- and I knew it. It was my first interview in near 10 years. The second interview I thought I aced. There was not a single answer I could not answer expect one about obscure hardware that nobody uses any more -- which I think was a test on how I handle not knowing something -- I ended up learning something neat. The process took a long time -- much longer than the first interview or any of my other friends. And every time I talked to the recruiter I could tell something was up. At the end the recruiter confessed there was issues at the hiring committee and a unusual event of a manager getting involved. They seemed to indicate there was a fight about me being accepted. I have a unique skill set and am very qualified to work at google. I have over 15 years working the full stack. I write drivers for Linux, and design big cloud deployments -- I have the history and the background, so I would not be a gamble on any front. So I thought it odd that there would be an issue at this level, it was only later that I figured I was not diverse enough when a intern I helped train -- who happens to be diverse did get into google. Anyways, with all the politics going on I am wondering if it is even worth responding to a current recurrent request. My questions for you xxcode are the folllowing -- It sucks, but are there teams I can try and get on that would not suck? Somebody at google has to be doing good things and just be excited about working on the project they are working on. I have a good job in Texas. It pays me $150k a year. I sometimes get bonuses and have a fairly good thing going with stock (not options, but stock). Is the money good enough at google to make it worth while? Will living in CA/MV negate any gains in pay and benefits? Is there any way to work at this company and avoid the entire diversity thing? I just want to write code and build awesome software that people enjoy using. Diversity -- while I care about it -- is not something I want to actively take cycles out of my life to solve -- there are fare more passionate people who are better equipped to think about these issues, I would rather write software. Please don't think I am a horrible person. We here on this planet once, and writing code what I want to do with my life -- not everybody has to be a warrior for social justice.
  • nojvek 9y ago
    On the other side Google’s getting shamed for not being diverse enough. I’m sure many recruiters and hiring managers’ bonuses are tried to how many diverse candidates are hired.
• hodgesrm 9y ago
  Please don't take this the wrong way, but attitudes like what you just described contribute to a toxic work culture--people sticking around just because of the money but hating every minute of it. It implies that people there are not just unhappy but will do/say things they don't believe in just to keep the paychecks rolling in. Working at big companies like Google is not for everyone. Unless you have material reasons for staying--such as funding care of aging parents--wouldn't you be happier and more successful by taking your own advice? p.s., I don't work at Google and don't ever want to.
  • eeZah7Ux 9y ago
    Management is responsible for the environment that is created in a company. Please don't blame employees that are complaining about stressful working environments - their plate is already full.
    • millzlane 9y ago
      There is no victim. This isn't chattel slavery. OP can say no to shitty culture and find another job. Take some of that good money save up a 6 month emergency fund and GTFO. There is no reason you should be going into work everday with a curdled stomach.
      • xuhu 9y ago
        There is no victim. This isn't chattel slavery. Women can say no to shitty culture and find another job. Take some of that good money save up a 6 month emergency fund and GTFO. There is no reason you should be going into work everday with a curdled stomach.
    • jknoepfler 9y ago
      people should take ownership of the consequences of their actions, especially when those actions are part of their professional identity and are reasonably within their control. Google is by almost no account a "stressful" working environment in the sense that its employees are well paid even within the context of a wealthy developed nation, have the freedom to leave, have ample access to health care, sick days, and paid vacation, have a physically safe workplace with minimal to no risk of personal injury, have socially highly respected work that is building a foundation for whatever career future they want, etc. etc. This isn't a field worker complaining about back-breaking labor conditions and wage theft, this a professional engineer at a top company who I certainly would not want on my team (I'm also a software engineer) if they're as checked out as they say, both for their sake and mine. I've worked with plenty of checked-out paycheck/stock-vest campers, and their effect on team morale is palpable, and the damage they do during their remaining tenure is usually pretty severe.
• kraig911 9y ago
  Reading this hurt. Life's to short. Quit. There are plenty of places that pay just as good or give you much more than just raw cash. If you've a family to feed (like me) I totally can get why you'd want to say. I know it's easy for me to say quit and find something else too. But please take it from a dumb guy who pities others that he feels are making the same mistake as he did. Quit. The world is too beautiful and miraculous to lose days to feelings like that.
• throwawaybipbop 9y ago
  (throwaway account for obvious reasons) I left Google a few years ago, and I did love working there, but unfortunately my experience was similar. I was on one of the non-software engineering ladders. The group I was part of grew very rapidly the first few years I was there. We were poaching the absolute best people from the best companies to come work on our team. It seemed like there was a new former principal engineer from MegaCo joining us weekly, and it was fantastic to be part of such a team. But how people got promoted was sometimes a mystery, at least at first. Everyone knew who was the most productive, the most valuable. Yet the promotions too often appeared random. Because we were on a narrower, more specialized engineering ladder the promo committees consisted of the same handful of very senior engineers each time. After a while, it became clear to us that the people that worked with those engineers on the promo committee in their day-to-day ended up having their promotions approved. Those that didn't had far less chance. This might not sound all that bad - if you're doing high-level work you should be engaged with high-level people. But it ended up becoming a patronage system: people would volunteer their support and time for the pet projects of those on the promo committee and in return they would get promoted. Engineers who weren't comfortable with such an arrangement ended up jaded and underpayed. I saw one engineer who left a very, very senior position at a well-known company especially hurt by the realization that they would have to participate in this charade to move up. He/she had attempted to get promoted the right way a few times and failed. Under pressure from their significant other, they played the game and it visibly hurt their sense of pride. The promo committee members took turns jerking them around with various tasks for a year or so, but he/she got their promotion. The rest of us took notice. I got the sense that this system was more comfortable to those who came to us from academia. I barely have a college degree myself so maybe I can't relate.
  • memo_ree 9y ago
    Google has an internal system which allows engineers to transfer to other teams. If what you described happened to me, I would secure a transfer and then report the situation to higher ups.
    • bitL 9y ago
      IIRC that works only if you never got a bad performance rating, then nobody would touch you internally and your chance to transfer within Google is lower than to move to another company to a better level.
• dilap 9y ago
  a quick browse of your comment history suggests we'd enjoy working together. n3twork, mobile video games. san francisco. email me at erin@n3twork.com if you think you might be interested.
• _jal 9y ago
  I have avoided LargeCos for precisely this reason. Worked in one a long time ago and witnessed the same thing - this is hardly unique to Google. Once companies significantly outgrow the Dunbar-number range[1], political processes are the only way to manage things, and it infects everything. For me, my quality of life is worth the tradeoff[2], and I turn down headhunters from them AmaGoPleBook seemingly constantly. If you want to pursue your actual work, as opposed to refining your skill at signaling games, move to a smaller shop. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar's_number https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar's_number [2] Another reason to keep debt low and personal commitments fluid - turning down a six figure raise because it would make life hell gets harder with both.
• koonsolo 9y ago
  Imagine that you find a job that excites you, and you look forward to working on challenging stuff every week. So the question you have to ask yourself is this: Is the difference in pay between these two jobs really worth it? The times when I asked myself this question, the answer was always really clear.