5 ms·

What would you recommend? I'm not being snarky but actually considering an editor switch.

by Karzyn 16y ago

axod 16y ago
textmate is ok enough :/ IMHO It 'works'.
- noarchy 16y ago
  I draw my code in the sand outside, and then have a scribe enter it into a terminal at some later point. This 'works'. But really, having a good IDE isn't a bad thing, is it? Does it make me less of a tough guy if I use one?
  - axod 16y ago
    My IDE is the terminal. I don't want that in a text editor. I use a text editor to edit text, and a terminal to do everything else. As long as it can do syntax highlighting, copy paste, line numbering, can show files/dirs in a tree so you can select files easily, I don't want anything else. Obviously I can understand that other people love clicking on "create a function" in their IDE, or tab completing variable names, or clicking on "build/run". But it's just not for me. Even the quote/bracket auto-insertion in textmate drove me crazy until I disabled it. All that extra crap 'refactor!' 'language bundles' etc. <anecdotal> The code I have seen (Java) produced from programmers using IDEs has been universally horrible. Full of duplication useless boilerplate and general rubbish. </anecdotal> If you were writing a novel, would you have a menu with common book 'patterns', or tab complete the character names? For me, it interrupts my flow. There is a popular myth that you 'need' to use an IDE to code Java. Which is just ridiculous. Perhaps it's a self fulfilling prophecy though. Code produced by IDEs isn't nice to look at so you need to edit it in another IDE, or spend an hour cleaning out all the rubbish. </rant against IDEs which I detest>
    - Sandman 16y ago
      Yeah, well, there were some days when I thanked god for the Eclipse's refactoring capabilities. I had to refactor large amounts of code at one time and had I done it by hand, it would have surely taken a lot more time and would have been a much more tedious process. Not to mention that I would've probably introduced one or two more or less subtle bugs while doing that. This fact alone is enough to make me assured that, when writing code for a large enterprise app, IDEs just can't be beaten.
      - axod 16y ago
        >> "when writing code for a large enterprise app, IDEs just can't be beaten." For that case, then yes you're probably right. Thank god I don't write 'enterprise apps'. IDE's are good for getting mediocre productivity out of bad programmers.
        ewjordan 16y ago
        IDE's are good for getting mediocre productivity out of bad programmers. No, that's what Java is good for. IDEs are good for maximizing the productivity that any programmer gets out of Java. Otherwise the best Java programmers wouldn't use them.
        axod 16y ago
        Anecdotal again, but every worthwhile programmer I've known does not use an IDE. But then as I say, a lot of this is semantics. My terminal, and my brain, is my IDE.
        ewjordan 16y ago
        Anecdotal again, but every worthwhile programmer I've known does not use an IDE. Not going to touch this other than to note that at Google, IBM, and Sun, most of the Java devs use one of the big 3 (Eclipse, Netbeans, or IntelliJ), you can certainly ask around if you doubt this.
        16y ago
    - wwortiz 16y ago
      You are much better of using an IDE with java unless you want to write everything yourself using barebones and then do lookups for obscure bits and pieces that are only a simple completion away in an IDE. Enjoy your elite way of doing it though.
      - axod 16y ago
        I do :) And I enjoy having nice neat tight code as a result. I don't need the completion, shortcuts etc, because I "know" the code base. Sometimes I need to grep etc, but knowing, and having a handle on the entire codebase is pretty useful for when you need to do big sweeping refactoring.
        Tamerlin 16y ago
        I use an IDE, and I write clean, tight code. I don't see your point -- part of it is that I have far more important things to do with my life than learn the API, so code completion is a great resource for me when I'm working with 3rd party libraries or Java libraries that I don't use regularly. Debuggers are another benefit to using an IDE. Running my app within NetBeans also makes it easier to deploy and launch a web application, so that's another bit of tedium that the IDE alleviates. For me it's a win-win. It takes care of grunt work, I take care of code.
        axod 16y ago
        I also hate debuggers. Tried them, don't like them. They're great for when you don't have the source code and need to reverse engineer something, but for finding bugs, I think they're terrible. Different people like different things though. It sounds like you're doing a very different kind of development than I do - that whole scary J2EE beans webapp enterprisey stuff.
        Tamerlin 16y ago
        Well, not quite J2EE, but it is Spring based. Spring relies heavily on magic that makes tracing code very difficult without a debugger. It wasn't my choice, and I wouldn't choose it again, but at least it's better than J2EE.
  - SoftwareMaven 16y ago
    My experience has been that different languages require different tools. Emacs has always been great for my Javascript and Python work, but, even with JDE, I can't get a good flow going with Java. Regardless of how tough it makes you, I think it makes you smart for using the tools you work best with. :)
amalcon 16y ago
If I were in the position of writing some Java again, I'd probably use IntelliJ. I used it once before and it was an absolute treat.
icey 16y ago
I like IntelliJ IDEA a lot. I don't do much Java development, but it works really well for the times that I feel like I need an IDE for something. It supports many languages out of the box and is usually one of the earlier IDEs to get plugins for new languages. On the downside... you'll want to buy more RAM.
brown9-2 16y ago
Take a look at this thread from the other week: Ask HN: What is the best Java IDE? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1523394 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1523394

What would you recommend? I'm not being snarky but actually considering an editor switch.

by Karzyn 16y ago

What would you recommend? I'm not being snarky but actually considering an editor switch.

axod 16y ago

textmate is ok enough :/ IMHO It 'works'.

noarchy 16y ago
I draw my code in the sand outside, and then have a scribe enter it into a terminal at some later point. This 'works'. But really, having a good IDE isn't a bad thing, is it? Does it make me less of a tough guy if I use one?
- axod 16y ago
  My IDE is the terminal. I don't want that in a text editor. I use a text editor to edit text, and a terminal to do everything else. As long as it can do syntax highlighting, copy paste, line numbering, can show files/dirs in a tree so you can select files easily, I don't want anything else. Obviously I can understand that other people love clicking on "create a function" in their IDE, or tab completing variable names, or clicking on "build/run". But it's just not for me. Even the quote/bracket auto-insertion in textmate drove me crazy until I disabled it. All that extra crap 'refactor!' 'language bundles' etc. <anecdotal> The code I have seen (Java) produced from programmers using IDEs has been universally horrible. Full of duplication useless boilerplate and general rubbish. </anecdotal> If you were writing a novel, would you have a menu with common book 'patterns', or tab complete the character names? For me, it interrupts my flow. There is a popular myth that you 'need' to use an IDE to code Java. Which is just ridiculous. Perhaps it's a self fulfilling prophecy though. Code produced by IDEs isn't nice to look at so you need to edit it in another IDE, or spend an hour cleaning out all the rubbish. </rant against IDEs which I detest>
  - Sandman 16y ago
    Yeah, well, there were some days when I thanked god for the Eclipse's refactoring capabilities. I had to refactor large amounts of code at one time and had I done it by hand, it would have surely taken a lot more time and would have been a much more tedious process. Not to mention that I would've probably introduced one or two more or less subtle bugs while doing that. This fact alone is enough to make me assured that, when writing code for a large enterprise app, IDEs just can't be beaten.
    - axod 16y ago
      >> "when writing code for a large enterprise app, IDEs just can't be beaten." For that case, then yes you're probably right. Thank god I don't write 'enterprise apps'. IDE's are good for getting mediocre productivity out of bad programmers.
      - ewjordan 16y ago
        IDE's are good for getting mediocre productivity out of bad programmers. No, that's what Java is good for. IDEs are good for maximizing the productivity that any programmer gets out of Java. Otherwise the best Java programmers wouldn't use them.
        axod 16y ago
        Anecdotal again, but every worthwhile programmer I've known does not use an IDE. But then as I say, a lot of this is semantics. My terminal, and my brain, is my IDE.
        ewjordan 16y ago
        Anecdotal again, but every worthwhile programmer I've known does not use an IDE. Not going to touch this other than to note that at Google, IBM, and Sun, most of the Java devs use one of the big 3 (Eclipse, Netbeans, or IntelliJ), you can certainly ask around if you doubt this.
        16y ago
  - wwortiz 16y ago
    You are much better of using an IDE with java unless you want to write everything yourself using barebones and then do lookups for obscure bits and pieces that are only a simple completion away in an IDE. Enjoy your elite way of doing it though.
    - axod 16y ago
      I do :) And I enjoy having nice neat tight code as a result. I don't need the completion, shortcuts etc, because I "know" the code base. Sometimes I need to grep etc, but knowing, and having a handle on the entire codebase is pretty useful for when you need to do big sweeping refactoring.
      - Tamerlin 16y ago
        I use an IDE, and I write clean, tight code. I don't see your point -- part of it is that I have far more important things to do with my life than learn the API, so code completion is a great resource for me when I'm working with 3rd party libraries or Java libraries that I don't use regularly. Debuggers are another benefit to using an IDE. Running my app within NetBeans also makes it easier to deploy and launch a web application, so that's another bit of tedium that the IDE alleviates. For me it's a win-win. It takes care of grunt work, I take care of code.
        axod 16y ago
        I also hate debuggers. Tried them, don't like them. They're great for when you don't have the source code and need to reverse engineer something, but for finding bugs, I think they're terrible. Different people like different things though. It sounds like you're doing a very different kind of development than I do - that whole scary J2EE beans webapp enterprisey stuff.
        Tamerlin 16y ago
        Well, not quite J2EE, but it is Spring based. Spring relies heavily on magic that makes tracing code very difficult without a debugger. It wasn't my choice, and I wouldn't choose it again, but at least it's better than J2EE.
- SoftwareMaven 16y ago
  My experience has been that different languages require different tools. Emacs has always been great for my Javascript and Python work, but, even with JDE, I can't get a good flow going with Java. Regardless of how tough it makes you, I think it makes you smart for using the tools you work best with. :)

amalcon 16y ago

If I were in the position of writing some Java again, I'd probably use IntelliJ. I used it once before and it was an absolute treat.

icey 16y ago

I like IntelliJ IDEA a lot. I don't do much Java development, but it works really well for the times that I feel like I need an IDE for something. It supports many languages out of the box and is usually one of the earlier IDEs to get plugins for new languages. On the downside... you'll want to buy more RAM.

brown9-2 16y ago

Take a look at this thread from the other week: Ask HN: What is the best Java IDE? http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1523394 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1523394