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I get nightmares thinking what that will do to electricitry prices. The graph of how they rose is already awful. And now imagine if the tax collected on minera

I get nightmares thinking what that will do to electricitry prices. The graph of how they rose is already awful. And now imagine if the tax collected on mineral oil for gas falls away cause everyone drives electric. And know that there isn't a specific car electricity to tax. Thinking the government would just eat this loss without thinking of ways to make the people pay would just be naive.

PhantomGremlin 9y ago
I get nightmares thinking what that will do to electricitry prices. What about supply? Where does all the electricity to charge the cars come from? Is there enough surplus generating capacity in the system to support millions of EVs?
- yaegers 9y ago
  Yup, that's the other thing. Obviously, the greens don't want nuclear power but so far, the renewable energy can't satisfy the current demand. Let alone an incresed one because of EV's.
  - TaylorAlexander 9y ago
    Scarce electricity would raise prices, making solar more economical to install.
- singularity2001 9y ago
  Is it naïve to hope that solar will reach cost-parity just-in-time?
  - j7ake 9y ago
    Even if solar were same price as "dirty" energy what would be the rate at which you build solar to keep up with the increasing demand of energy ?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- raesene6 9y ago
  In the UK at least, new Offshore wind is now price comparable with other sources, and is getting cheaper. Combining renewables (which can be intermittant) with EVs (which can recharge batteries) could actually work quite well.
- PixelB 9y ago
  We have plenty of energy supply in the system, we need to optimize our distribution. We only use about 39% of the electricity we generate. I know that seems strange, but it's true. https://c1cleantechnicacom-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/files/2013/08/LLNL_Flow-Chart_20121.png https://c1cleantechnicacom-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/files/201...
  - pjc50 9y ago
    You've misinterpreted "rejected energy" there, it's due to Carnot inefficiency not distribution problems.
adrianN 9y ago
How much electricity do you use? I live in Germany and pay something like 35 Eurocents per kWh. I'm told that's a lot compared to other countries. And yet I somehow spend less than 30 Euros a month on electricity for a two person household. That's something like 5% of what I pay for rent. I really don't understand why everybody is concerned about electricity prices. Edit: I asked around. While I pay less than my German peers, nobody I asked pays more than 30 Euro per person per month.
- oblio 9y ago
  I think (not 100% sure) that electricity is expensive in California.
  - adrianN 9y ago
    Google says the average rate is ~0.15 $/kWh, less than half of what I pay. The most expensive state seems to be Hawaii at 0.26 $/kWh, which is still a lot cheaper than what I pay.
  - CalRobert 9y ago
    Perhaps compared to the US, but pretty cheap by first-world standards.
- TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
  How do you use only 85khW per month? That's a continuous draw of about 120 watts. What do you do for heating / cool? Do you not have a fridge, or an always-on computer, or a water heater? May last electricity bill was $750 for three months, a rate of about AU$0.26 / kWh, plus a daily supply charge of about ninety cents. The person who was responsible for a majority of that bill doesn't live here any more, but it wasn't hard to achieve.
  - adrianN 9y ago
    Heating, including hot water isn't done with electricity. German climate doesn't require aircon. I have a fridge that uses about 140kWh/year and I cook with electricity. I turn my electronics off when I'm not at home, so the fridge is the only electricity consumer when I'm at work. I use considerably less than 85kWh per day, the costs I quoted contain a rather large fixed component.
dcustodio 9y ago
the beauty is that one day you'll be able to sell electricity from your EV during peak hours, and recharge it when it's cheap.
lyschoening 9y ago
New capacity can be wind and solar, which is getting cheaper than conventional power in a lot of places.
- TomK32 9y ago
  And with electric cars being told when to charge, you can flatten out fluctuation in production.
pjc50 9y ago
Ah, is this the new pro-fossil-fuel set of talking points? Edit: see recent HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15217697 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15217697 ; if my moving the decimal point is correct that's £0.06 per kWh. Overall energy consumption is quite flat: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Electricity_production,_consumption_and_market_overview http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/... possibly due to all those EU-imposed energy efficiency directives.
- ZeroGravitas 9y ago
  There was a burst of news stories in the UK about how EVs would melt the grid, you wouldn't even be able to boil your kettle and change your EV at the same time. The company running the grid had to put out a "myth-buster" PDF to clean up after the misinformation: http://fes.nationalgrid.com/media/1264/ev-myth-buster-v032.pdf http://fes.nationalgrid.com/media/1264/ev-myth-buster-v032.p...

PhantomGremlin 9y ago

I get nightmares thinking what that will do to electricitry prices. What about supply? Where does all the electricity to charge the cars come from? Is there enough surplus generating capacity in the system to support millions of EVs?

yaegers 9y ago
Yup, that's the other thing. Obviously, the greens don't want nuclear power but so far, the renewable energy can't satisfy the current demand. Let alone an incresed one because of EV's.
- TaylorAlexander 9y ago
  Scarce electricity would raise prices, making solar more economical to install.
singularity2001 9y ago
Is it naïve to hope that solar will reach cost-parity just-in-time?
- j7ake 9y ago
  Even if solar were same price as "dirty" energy what would be the rate at which you build solar to keep up with the increasing demand of energy ?
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
raesene6 9y ago
In the UK at least, new Offshore wind is now price comparable with other sources, and is getting cheaper. Combining renewables (which can be intermittant) with EVs (which can recharge batteries) could actually work quite well.
PixelB 9y ago
We have plenty of energy supply in the system, we need to optimize our distribution. We only use about 39% of the electricity we generate. I know that seems strange, but it's true. https://c1cleantechnicacom-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/files/2013/08/LLNL_Flow-Chart_20121.png https://c1cleantechnicacom-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/files/201...
- pjc50 9y ago
  You've misinterpreted "rejected energy" there, it's due to Carnot inefficiency not distribution problems.

adrianN 9y ago

How much electricity do you use? I live in Germany and pay something like 35 Eurocents per kWh. I'm told that's a lot compared to other countries. And yet I somehow spend less than 30 Euros a month on electricity for a two person household. That's something like 5% of what I pay for rent. I really don't understand why everybody is concerned about electricity prices. Edit: I asked around. While I pay less than my German peers, nobody I asked pays more than 30 Euro per person per month.

oblio 9y ago
I think (not 100% sure) that electricity is expensive in California.
- adrianN 9y ago
  Google says the average rate is ~0.15 $/kWh, less than half of what I pay. The most expensive state seems to be Hawaii at 0.26 $/kWh, which is still a lot cheaper than what I pay.
- CalRobert 9y ago
  Perhaps compared to the US, but pretty cheap by first-world standards.
TheSpiceIsLife 9y ago
How do you use only 85khW per month? That's a continuous draw of about 120 watts. What do you do for heating / cool? Do you not have a fridge, or an always-on computer, or a water heater? May last electricity bill was $750 for three months, a rate of about AU$0.26 / kWh, plus a daily supply charge of about ninety cents. The person who was responsible for a majority of that bill doesn't live here any more, but it wasn't hard to achieve.
- adrianN 9y ago
  Heating, including hot water isn't done with electricity. German climate doesn't require aircon. I have a fridge that uses about 140kWh/year and I cook with electricity. I turn my electronics off when I'm not at home, so the fridge is the only electricity consumer when I'm at work. I use considerably less than 85kWh per day, the costs I quoted contain a rather large fixed component.

dcustodio 9y ago

the beauty is that one day you'll be able to sell electricity from your EV during peak hours, and recharge it when it's cheap.

lyschoening 9y ago

New capacity can be wind and solar, which is getting cheaper than conventional power in a lot of places.

TomK32 9y ago
And with electric cars being told when to charge, you can flatten out fluctuation in production.

pjc50 9y ago

Ah, is this the new pro-fossil-fuel set of talking points? Edit: see recent HN https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15217697 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15217697 ; if my moving the decimal point is correct that's £0.06 per kWh. Overall energy consumption is quite flat: http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Electricity_production,_consumption_and_market_overview http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/... possibly due to all those EU-imposed energy efficiency directives.

ZeroGravitas 9y ago
There was a burst of news stories in the UK about how EVs would melt the grid, you wouldn't even be able to boil your kettle and change your EV at the same time. The company running the grid had to put out a "myth-buster" PDF to clean up after the misinformation: http://fes.nationalgrid.com/media/1264/ev-myth-buster-v032.pdf http://fes.nationalgrid.com/media/1264/ev-myth-buster-v032.p...