13 ms·

The sex-offender registry can be a life sentence

154 points by teslacar 10y ago

tracker1 10y ago
sigh ... I'm not sure what else to say. The problem with "Zero Tollerance", minimum sentencing and lifetime registries, is there's no accounting for edge cases or practical exceptions. I'm hoping that over the next decade or two, a lot of this can be rolled back into sensible laws, and justifiable actions.
- stagbeetle 10y ago
  It seems to be a prevalent mindset: False positives are better than letting one slip through (see: MicroSoft hiring).
mritun 10y ago
That a society is fine with incarcerating 9 (NINE!) year old kids is disturbing... but, I am haunted by the thoughts that a society on earth incarcerated ten year old kids for non-violent acts in the name of zero tolerance. Zero tolerance for kids!! They don't understand the damn /meaning/ of that word for god's sake!
- Latty 10y ago
  We must protect children from having their lives ruined! We shall do that by ruining their lives!
gigatexal 10y ago
Well if the predilection towards pedophilia could be managed or "cured" and if prisons did more than just house inmates I.e if they worked on rehab instead of punishment then perhaps the lifetime listings wouldn't be necessary. I won't begin to insinuate that I have the right balance between parents wanting to be cautious with who their kids interact with and the belief that people can change for the better. And then there's the case of adolescents who get caught up in the system before their minds are fully formed...
- pluma 10y ago
  > if prisons did more than just house inmates The problem is that the US system in particular is obsessed with punishment alone. Yes, sure, sometimes the punishment is justified as a learning experience but it's entirely based on the idea that punishment alone is sufficient to teach and act as a deterrent to others. Considering mental health (especially for the poor) is fairly neglected as a public health issue in the US and the country has the highest incarceration rate in the "free world", I'm not sure there's a fix. Oh, and paedophilia absolutely can be managed if you treat it as a mental health issue. Not to mention that most sexual abuse of minors isn't actually committed by paedophiles -- just like most rape cases aren't simply about very horny people who can't help themselves.
  - gigatexal 10y ago
    I agree. Though perhaps the Victorian / puritan morality that underlies American history won't let us move on from punishment to rehab.
    - DarkKomunalec 10y ago
      I'm not sure punishment vs rehabilitation is the cause for support of such a cruel system. I myself am in favour of punishment in addition to rehabilitation, up to an eye for an eye (as it was originaly used - to limit retaliation) for serious crimes. But even to me the US law system seems way too harsh on the accused, in both establishing guilt and assigning punishment, so I don't really know what drives others to support it. Perhaps they hear of a few over-lenient sentences, or of someone getting away with it without a conviction, and in response vote to raise the severity for everyone?
  - lucideer 10y ago
    > highest incarceration rate in the "free world" 2nd highest in the world full stop is a starker figure (behind Seychelles which has a population <10k)
    - droidist2 10y ago
Odenwaelder 10y ago
The US are getting weirder and weirder and weirder. I just can't wrap my head around Trump, gun laws, life-time sex-offender registries, the messed up health care system. Yet, I have only met absolutely nice, intelligent, loving americans, and I've met many. I feel sorry for them. They deserve better.
- pluma 10y ago
  I find that it's easy to hate the US for what it has been doing to others (yes, yes, tu quoque and at least the US isn't literally Nazi Germany) but what's really astonishing is what it's doing to its own people. Sure, in theory citizens of the "home of the brave" have it pretty good but between the atrocious healthcare and welfare systems, the insane criminal justice system, the mass surveillance, the militarised police force, the widespread influence of religious conservative groups, and everything else... I'm not so sure US citizens are any less victims of the US than anybody else.
  - Overtonwindow 10y ago
    What you're seeing is the "though on crime" trap all politicians fall into. Vote for law X and show you're tough on crime. Oh you didn't vote for law X? Then you're not tough on crime, and that's why votes should go to your opponent in the next election. US politicians MUST be tough on crime or risk losing election.
    - aanm1988 10y ago
      > US politicians In a lot of places in the US the Judges are elected. So never mind the politicians, the guy who just sentenced you to an absurd sentence did it because he needed the press for his campaign.
      - Overtonwindow 10y ago
        What I am speaking of are the crimes themselves, mandatory minimums, funding for rehabilitation, etc. That is set by politicians, not judges.
buro9 10y ago
From everything I've ever read, there is no concept of rehabilitation in the USA. If you have ever been convicted, or even accused, of a felony or sexual crime in the USA then life as you knew it was over. The concept of being able to pay a debt to society and for that to settle the books, and to then allow those people to return to society and contribute value again... is alien to America. The problem starts with the lack of rehabilitation and not with the original incident. If a person is deprived of the hope of ever living a meaningful life again, then what incentive exists against their prior behaviour? There is no disincentive that works when a life has already been destroyed. Regardless of what it was, drugs, sex, violence, theft, or simply going to a demonstration and being arrested when someone else kicks off and you are convicted by proximity... once you deprive people of a future, of hope, then you really start bringing out the worst in them when you could have brought out the best in them.
- forvelin 10y ago
  Is this related to fact that there are people who profit over correction services in United States ? After digging around VICE article[0], lack of rehab in US made bit sense at least. [0] - https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/whos-getting-rich-off-the-prison-industrial-complex https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/whos-getting-rich-off-the...
  - buro9 10y ago
    It is bigger and deeper than just that. I've even seen comments on here regarding immigration that simply said if someone has ever been arrested then they shouldn't be allowed into the USA. (No qualifying statements on recency or severity, or even acquittal.) With regards to crime (including the mere accusation of sexual things) the sentiment of the USA runs counter to the aspiration and promise of social mobility of the USA. Yes others profit from maintaining the status quo, but worse is that people are judged for life, based on a single incident in their past. And as the article points out, the zero tolerance amplifies the destructive nature of a society that judges.
    - tehlike 10y ago
sersi 10y ago
In the fight against the great boogeymen of Terrorism and Sex Predation, the US has lost common sense. As a kid, when I was 8 years old, I played doctor with my neighbor, we we were both curious about each others differences and so we explored them. So, if I read this article, if this had been in the US, we could have been tried as sex offenders? How does this even make sense? Of course kids are curious about body differences between men and women. And, when I read those stories, I really don't understand how a teenager could be convicted for having sex with a girl 2 or 3 years younger than her. I can't imagine how a girl sexting could be convicted for producing "Child Porn", that absolutely makes no sense. And then the treatments describe are a form of abuse. I wouldn't want to be subject to a “penile plethysmograph”. It's really scary how easily it is to pass Orwellian by invoking "Think of the Children" or "To prevent terrorists". As soon as those two things are uttered, people seem to lose all common sense.
- bambax 10y ago
  > It's really scary how easily it is to pass Orwellian by invoking "Think of the Children" or "To prevent terrorists". The goal is not to fight so-called sex-crimes or terrorism. The goal is to 1. coerce people into behaving in an ideal way where sexuality is constrained and nothing happens 2. discriminate against minorities using big words and supposed "victims" as tools and props.
  - golergka 10y ago
    Just to clarify: do you think that this is being put through intentionally by people who're organized together with hidden evil plan?
    - CamTin 10y ago
      There doesn't necessarily need to be a literal conspiracy in order for the intended effects of laws to be completely bogus. For example, I think we can all agree that poll taxes were intended to keep southern black Americans from voting, even though I doubt there was ever a "Jim Crow Caucus" of lawmakers from Southern states to decide on the best policy objectives to further their racist agenda.
kobeya 10y ago
I have a friend who plead guilty to two statuary rape charges that were false accusations, serving more time with parole than the maximum sentencing of the one charge he was guilty of, solely because the prosecution would drop the request for sex-offender registration, which would have done him permanent harm. There are some real predators out there, and I understand the threats that make something like a registry necessary. However it has become a tool of the plea-deal legal industry and a mechanism by which non-predatory individuals have had their lives ruined by the state.
- bambax 10y ago
  > I understand the threats that make something like a registry necessary Necessary? But why do sex-offenders registries only exist in (a small number of) English-speaking countries, and in no other [1]? Are there no sex crimes in other countries? Or does it have something to do with Puritanism and a general fixation with sexuality in those countries? A registry is not necessary, it's yet another manifestation of American racism [2] and cruelty. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_offender_registry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_offender_registry > Sex offender registration does not exist outside of the English-speaking world, however. The United States is the only country with a registry that is publicly accessible; all other countries in the English-speaking world have sex offender registries only accessible by law enforcement. [2] http://www.albanystudentpress.net/large-racial-disparities-in-sex-offender-registry-prof-finds/ http://www.albanystudentpress.net/large-racial-disparities-i... > The study indicates that approximately 1 percent of African American males in the United States are registered sex offenders while white males are registered at approximately half that rate. The growth of sex offender registries reflects “a new form of punishment developed by the state that is specifically tailored to punishing sex,”
  - kobeya 10y ago
    The problem with the sex offender registry is not that it exists, it is that there is no way to rehabilitate and get off it.
- Chris2048 10y ago
  To be clear, was the "one charge he was guilty of" also rape?
kobeya 10y ago
I have a friend who plead guilty to two statuary rape charges that were false accusations, serving more time with parole than the maximum sentencing of the one charge he was guilty of, solely because the prosecution would drop the request for sex-offender registration, which would have done him permanent harm. There are some real predators out there, and I understand the threats that make something like a registry necessary. However it has become a tool of the plea-deal legal industry and a mechanism by which non-predatory individuals have had their lives ruined by the state.
bambax 10y ago
> Her friend, who had just given birth to a baby girl, had logged on to the Michigan Public Sex Offender Registry Web site to search for local predators. "Sex-offender" registry is of course a total and complete abomination. But if you're going to write against it, maybe you owe it to yourself and your readers to not use the words of the enemy -- namely "predators". There are no "predators". There may or may not be people who made a mistake earlier in life -- many of those mistakes would not even be frowned upon in many other parts of the world. But to call people on a sex-offenders list "predators" is like calling everyone on a no-fly list "terrorists". It's bigoted, it's despicable. And it's at least counter productive to use that word in an article that tries to fight the very principle of those lists. Also, to continue on a related wording controversy that's really irritating, victims shouldn't be able to automatically call themselves "survivors". You're a survivor only if you narrowly escaped death. If your life was never at risk then you're not a survivor.
- kakarot 10y ago
  It's true that many, if not most, registered sex offenders are not predators, but predators do exist. There are predators out there and I have met many. But I agree, from a psychosemantic perspective using "predator" in that sentence reeked of FUD
- inetknght 10y ago
  > There are no "predators" Unfortunately, you're wrong. While there might be far fewer actual predators than the registry supposes, there are indeed actual predators on the list. The problem is that the registry is abused by law enforcement and the public through misunderstanding and continued by lack of intellectual integrity. Why read any public case notes of convictions when all you need to know is that they're on the registry? It takes so much _time_ to actually find out _why_ someone's on the registry. It takes a lot of thinking to actually figure out "hey this person was simply exploring their sexuality and no harm was intended". Why spend time and thought on that when you can just assume the worst and let someone else worry about truth?
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
gillianlish 10y ago
lets be clear. rich people do not have to deal with this. denny hastert rapes a bunch of people and is still thought of as a good guy by the powerful and wealthy. how many more like him are protected? catholic church institutionalizes criminal sexual abuse but nobody in management goes to prison. corey feldman knows who raped him but cannot say it because that person has too much money and power in hollywood. hedge fund managers go to thailand and fuck child prostitutes but they come back here and invest in private prisons that make money putting kids in lockup for playing doctor. some teenager sends a nude pic and get years in prison. welcome to 'freedom' i actually support the 'crackdown on sex crimes'... if it went after actual criminals!!!! politicians, CEOs, cops, bankers, all those people who routinely rape kids and get away with it. but as usual, it just is a way for the rich to enslave the poor, extract money from them, abuse them, and discard them.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  The current president is at a minimum guilty of multiple cases of sexual assault. Rich people do not only not have to deal with it, they are next to untouchable.
  - igor_filippov 10y ago
    Wait what? Isn't he innocent until proven otherwise?
    - snowpanda 10y ago
      Not for people that can't get over the election results.
    - jacquesm 10y ago
      He pretty much admitted it himself, what else do you want? Or do you feel that because he lies all the time we should not believe him at all, even when he incriminates himself? I'm fairly confident in declaring Trump guilty of that, this is not a court of law, it's an internet forum and the standards for both are different. In fact, the standards of proof for criminal law are different from those for civil law (see OJ), and I think it's a bit much to require the standard of proof for criminal law to apply to a forum discussion for someone who is on the record as stating the does exactly that which others claim he did to them.
robbiep 10y ago
Interesting catching a thread about America before all the americans wake up and start defending the status quo
arjie 10y ago
Why not just make it a complete registry. Put speeding on the list too so I don't have to worry about my kids getting hit by an unrepentant speeder.
bnolsen 10y ago
cruel and unusual punishment anyone?
imroot 10y ago
As a society, we have no way to differentiate who we're mad at, and who we're truly afraid of. Rehabilitation options are nonexistent, as most prisons and jails removed them in the 90's. Offenders go to Prison and come out Convicts -- with better training, some more street smarts, complete with access to more drugs, guns, and tools of the trade. America is not a country of second chances. Look at sites like beenverified and mugshots -- their sole purpose in life is to shame those who have been arrested/convicted and allow employers/landlords to discriminate in ways that really skirts the FDCPA (beenverified isn't a CRA, so, there are no repercussions of reporting inaccurate information, nor are there ways of getting that information changed). Hell, even AirBnB performs silent background checks on people who are renting homes -- even after presenting them the official copy of my clean (aside from a few speeding tickets and an accident from 1999) FBI background report, they still say that there are 'public records' that they are using and for the 'safety of the AirBnB platform,' they don't want my money. We have a long way to go until this country can truly start to fix the 'prison' problem, but, it won't start until the country, as a whole, starts taking a different view of rehabilitation, corrections, and punishment.
skissane 10y ago
The article mentions machines attached to young men's penises to "measure their arousal", a prosecutor demanding a photo of a teenage boy's erect penis, masturbation diaries – their so-called "therapy" sounds like a sexual assault in itself, sexual abuse committed by the state and its agents.
Overtonwindow 10y ago
IMHO acts committed prior to 18 should not warrant inclusion on the sex offender registry, unless they are so egregious and violent that a high bar has been crossed.
- DanBC 10y ago
  Siblings are one of the main perpetrators of sexual abuse. This isn't normal sexual exploration, but actual abuse. http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/sibabuse.htm http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/sibabuse.htm
makecheck 10y ago
There is a huge problem with “accusation equals conviction”, and a huge problem with “let’s just keep adding punishments to already-convicted people”. There also seems to be no automatic apology mechanism after wrongful accusations or convictions, requiring one to spend even more time and money to be given even the most basic repayments for a life-destroying situation. If I had to pick one thing to fix first, it should be COMPLETELY ILLEGAL TO DISCLOSE MERE ACCUSATIONS (no media coverage, etc.). Disclosure, particularly for sexual crimes, has been shown to have just as much of a career-destroying and family-destroying effect as an actual conviction, and the “hehe, sorry, wrong guy, you are free to go” after the ordeal never undoes the damage. It is a shameful, garbage way for society to operate.
kirykl 10y ago
The key problem is the registry seems almost like a minimum penalty. Life in prison is a major penalty, life on the registry should be also considered as such. It loses all meaning when it contains people who have been convicted of taking selfies.

154 points by teslacar 10y ago

sigh ... I'm not sure what else to say. The problem with "Zero Tollerance", minimum sentencing and lifetime registries, is there's no accounting for edge cases or practical exceptions. I'm hoping that over the next decade or two, a lot of this can be rolled back into sensible laws, and justifiable actions.

stagbeetle 10y ago
It seems to be a prevalent mindset: False positives are better than letting one slip through (see: MicroSoft hiring).

mritun 10y ago

That a society is fine with incarcerating 9 (NINE!) year old kids is disturbing... but, I am haunted by the thoughts that a society on earth incarcerated ten year old kids for non-violent acts in the name of zero tolerance. Zero tolerance for kids!! They don't understand the damn /meaning/ of that word for god's sake!

Latty 10y ago
We must protect children from having their lives ruined! We shall do that by ruining their lives!

gigatexal 10y ago

Well if the predilection towards pedophilia could be managed or "cured" and if prisons did more than just house inmates I.e if they worked on rehab instead of punishment then perhaps the lifetime listings wouldn't be necessary. I won't begin to insinuate that I have the right balance between parents wanting to be cautious with who their kids interact with and the belief that people can change for the better. And then there's the case of adolescents who get caught up in the system before their minds are fully formed...

pluma 10y ago
> if prisons did more than just house inmates The problem is that the US system in particular is obsessed with punishment alone. Yes, sure, sometimes the punishment is justified as a learning experience but it's entirely based on the idea that punishment alone is sufficient to teach and act as a deterrent to others. Considering mental health (especially for the poor) is fairly neglected as a public health issue in the US and the country has the highest incarceration rate in the "free world", I'm not sure there's a fix. Oh, and paedophilia absolutely can be managed if you treat it as a mental health issue. Not to mention that most sexual abuse of minors isn't actually committed by paedophiles -- just like most rape cases aren't simply about very horny people who can't help themselves.
- gigatexal 10y ago
  I agree. Though perhaps the Victorian / puritan morality that underlies American history won't let us move on from punishment to rehab.
  - DarkKomunalec 10y ago
    I'm not sure punishment vs rehabilitation is the cause for support of such a cruel system. I myself am in favour of punishment in addition to rehabilitation, up to an eye for an eye (as it was originaly used - to limit retaliation) for serious crimes. But even to me the US law system seems way too harsh on the accused, in both establishing guilt and assigning punishment, so I don't really know what drives others to support it. Perhaps they hear of a few over-lenient sentences, or of someone getting away with it without a conviction, and in response vote to raise the severity for everyone?
- lucideer 10y ago
  > highest incarceration rate in the "free world" 2nd highest in the world full stop is a starker figure (behind Seychelles which has a population <10k)
  - droidist2 10y ago

Odenwaelder 10y ago

The US are getting weirder and weirder and weirder. I just can't wrap my head around Trump, gun laws, life-time sex-offender registries, the messed up health care system. Yet, I have only met absolutely nice, intelligent, loving americans, and I've met many. I feel sorry for them. They deserve better.

pluma 10y ago
I find that it's easy to hate the US for what it has been doing to others (yes, yes, tu quoque and at least the US isn't literally Nazi Germany) but what's really astonishing is what it's doing to its own people. Sure, in theory citizens of the "home of the brave" have it pretty good but between the atrocious healthcare and welfare systems, the insane criminal justice system, the mass surveillance, the militarised police force, the widespread influence of religious conservative groups, and everything else... I'm not so sure US citizens are any less victims of the US than anybody else.
- Overtonwindow 10y ago
  What you're seeing is the "though on crime" trap all politicians fall into. Vote for law X and show you're tough on crime. Oh you didn't vote for law X? Then you're not tough on crime, and that's why votes should go to your opponent in the next election. US politicians MUST be tough on crime or risk losing election.
  - aanm1988 10y ago
    > US politicians In a lot of places in the US the Judges are elected. So never mind the politicians, the guy who just sentenced you to an absurd sentence did it because he needed the press for his campaign.
    - Overtonwindow 10y ago
      What I am speaking of are the crimes themselves, mandatory minimums, funding for rehabilitation, etc. That is set by politicians, not judges.

buro9 10y ago

From everything I've ever read, there is no concept of rehabilitation in the USA. If you have ever been convicted, or even accused, of a felony or sexual crime in the USA then life as you knew it was over. The concept of being able to pay a debt to society and for that to settle the books, and to then allow those people to return to society and contribute value again... is alien to America. The problem starts with the lack of rehabilitation and not with the original incident. If a person is deprived of the hope of ever living a meaningful life again, then what incentive exists against their prior behaviour? There is no disincentive that works when a life has already been destroyed. Regardless of what it was, drugs, sex, violence, theft, or simply going to a demonstration and being arrested when someone else kicks off and you are convicted by proximity... once you deprive people of a future, of hope, then you really start bringing out the worst in them when you could have brought out the best in them.

forvelin 10y ago
Is this related to fact that there are people who profit over correction services in United States ? After digging around VICE article[0], lack of rehab in US made bit sense at least. [0] - https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/whos-getting-rich-off-the-prison-industrial-complex https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/whos-getting-rich-off-the...
- buro9 10y ago
  It is bigger and deeper than just that. I've even seen comments on here regarding immigration that simply said if someone has ever been arrested then they shouldn't be allowed into the USA. (No qualifying statements on recency or severity, or even acquittal.) With regards to crime (including the mere accusation of sexual things) the sentiment of the USA runs counter to the aspiration and promise of social mobility of the USA. Yes others profit from maintaining the status quo, but worse is that people are judged for life, based on a single incident in their past. And as the article points out, the zero tolerance amplifies the destructive nature of a society that judges.
  - tehlike 10y ago

sersi 10y ago

In the fight against the great boogeymen of Terrorism and Sex Predation, the US has lost common sense. As a kid, when I was 8 years old, I played doctor with my neighbor, we we were both curious about each others differences and so we explored them. So, if I read this article, if this had been in the US, we could have been tried as sex offenders? How does this even make sense? Of course kids are curious about body differences between men and women. And, when I read those stories, I really don't understand how a teenager could be convicted for having sex with a girl 2 or 3 years younger than her. I can't imagine how a girl sexting could be convicted for producing "Child Porn", that absolutely makes no sense. And then the treatments describe are a form of abuse. I wouldn't want to be subject to a “penile plethysmograph”. It's really scary how easily it is to pass Orwellian by invoking "Think of the Children" or "To prevent terrorists". As soon as those two things are uttered, people seem to lose all common sense.

bambax 10y ago
> It's really scary how easily it is to pass Orwellian by invoking "Think of the Children" or "To prevent terrorists". The goal is not to fight so-called sex-crimes or terrorism. The goal is to 1. coerce people into behaving in an ideal way where sexuality is constrained and nothing happens 2. discriminate against minorities using big words and supposed "victims" as tools and props.
- golergka 10y ago
  Just to clarify: do you think that this is being put through intentionally by people who're organized together with hidden evil plan?
  - CamTin 10y ago
    There doesn't necessarily need to be a literal conspiracy in order for the intended effects of laws to be completely bogus. For example, I think we can all agree that poll taxes were intended to keep southern black Americans from voting, even though I doubt there was ever a "Jim Crow Caucus" of lawmakers from Southern states to decide on the best policy objectives to further their racist agenda.

kobeya 10y ago

I have a friend who plead guilty to two statuary rape charges that were false accusations, serving more time with parole than the maximum sentencing of the one charge he was guilty of, solely because the prosecution would drop the request for sex-offender registration, which would have done him permanent harm. There are some real predators out there, and I understand the threats that make something like a registry necessary. However it has become a tool of the plea-deal legal industry and a mechanism by which non-predatory individuals have had their lives ruined by the state.

bambax 10y ago
> I understand the threats that make something like a registry necessary Necessary? But why do sex-offenders registries only exist in (a small number of) English-speaking countries, and in no other [1]? Are there no sex crimes in other countries? Or does it have something to do with Puritanism and a general fixation with sexuality in those countries? A registry is not necessary, it's yet another manifestation of American racism [2] and cruelty. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_offender_registry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_offender_registry > Sex offender registration does not exist outside of the English-speaking world, however. The United States is the only country with a registry that is publicly accessible; all other countries in the English-speaking world have sex offender registries only accessible by law enforcement. [2] http://www.albanystudentpress.net/large-racial-disparities-in-sex-offender-registry-prof-finds/ http://www.albanystudentpress.net/large-racial-disparities-i... > The study indicates that approximately 1 percent of African American males in the United States are registered sex offenders while white males are registered at approximately half that rate. The growth of sex offender registries reflects “a new form of punishment developed by the state that is specifically tailored to punishing sex,”
- kobeya 10y ago
  The problem with the sex offender registry is not that it exists, it is that there is no way to rehabilitate and get off it.
Chris2048 10y ago
To be clear, was the "one charge he was guilty of" also rape?

kobeya 10y ago

bambax 10y ago

> Her friend, who had just given birth to a baby girl, had logged on to the Michigan Public Sex Offender Registry Web site to search for local predators. "Sex-offender" registry is of course a total and complete abomination. But if you're going to write against it, maybe you owe it to yourself and your readers to not use the words of the enemy -- namely "predators". There are no "predators". There may or may not be people who made a mistake earlier in life -- many of those mistakes would not even be frowned upon in many other parts of the world. But to call people on a sex-offenders list "predators" is like calling everyone on a no-fly list "terrorists". It's bigoted, it's despicable. And it's at least counter productive to use that word in an article that tries to fight the very principle of those lists. Also, to continue on a related wording controversy that's really irritating, victims shouldn't be able to automatically call themselves "survivors". You're a survivor only if you narrowly escaped death. If your life was never at risk then you're not a survivor.

kakarot 10y ago
It's true that many, if not most, registered sex offenders are not predators, but predators do exist. There are predators out there and I have met many. But I agree, from a psychosemantic perspective using "predator" in that sentence reeked of FUD
inetknght 10y ago
> There are no "predators" Unfortunately, you're wrong. While there might be far fewer actual predators than the registry supposes, there are indeed actual predators on the list. The problem is that the registry is abused by law enforcement and the public through misunderstanding and continued by lack of intellectual integrity. Why read any public case notes of convictions when all you need to know is that they're on the registry? It takes so much _time_ to actually find out _why_ someone's on the registry. It takes a lot of thinking to actually figure out "hey this person was simply exploring their sexuality and no harm was intended". Why spend time and thought on that when you can just assume the worst and let someone else worry about truth?
- dragonwriter 10y ago

gillianlish 10y ago

lets be clear. rich people do not have to deal with this. denny hastert rapes a bunch of people and is still thought of as a good guy by the powerful and wealthy. how many more like him are protected? catholic church institutionalizes criminal sexual abuse but nobody in management goes to prison. corey feldman knows who raped him but cannot say it because that person has too much money and power in hollywood. hedge fund managers go to thailand and fuck child prostitutes but they come back here and invest in private prisons that make money putting kids in lockup for playing doctor. some teenager sends a nude pic and get years in prison. welcome to 'freedom' i actually support the 'crackdown on sex crimes'... if it went after actual criminals!!!! politicians, CEOs, cops, bankers, all those people who routinely rape kids and get away with it. but as usual, it just is a way for the rich to enslave the poor, extract money from them, abuse them, and discard them.

jacquesm 10y ago
The current president is at a minimum guilty of multiple cases of sexual assault. Rich people do not only not have to deal with it, they are next to untouchable.
- igor_filippov 10y ago
  Wait what? Isn't he innocent until proven otherwise?
  - snowpanda 10y ago
    Not for people that can't get over the election results.
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    He pretty much admitted it himself, what else do you want? Or do you feel that because he lies all the time we should not believe him at all, even when he incriminates himself? I'm fairly confident in declaring Trump guilty of that, this is not a court of law, it's an internet forum and the standards for both are different. In fact, the standards of proof for criminal law are different from those for civil law (see OJ), and I think it's a bit much to require the standard of proof for criminal law to apply to a forum discussion for someone who is on the record as stating the does exactly that which others claim he did to them.

robbiep 10y ago

Interesting catching a thread about America before all the americans wake up and start defending the status quo

arjie 10y ago

Why not just make it a complete registry. Put speeding on the list too so I don't have to worry about my kids getting hit by an unrepentant speeder.

bnolsen 10y ago

cruel and unusual punishment anyone?

imroot 10y ago

As a society, we have no way to differentiate who we're mad at, and who we're truly afraid of. Rehabilitation options are nonexistent, as most prisons and jails removed them in the 90's. Offenders go to Prison and come out Convicts -- with better training, some more street smarts, complete with access to more drugs, guns, and tools of the trade. America is not a country of second chances. Look at sites like beenverified and mugshots -- their sole purpose in life is to shame those who have been arrested/convicted and allow employers/landlords to discriminate in ways that really skirts the FDCPA (beenverified isn't a CRA, so, there are no repercussions of reporting inaccurate information, nor are there ways of getting that information changed). Hell, even AirBnB performs silent background checks on people who are renting homes -- even after presenting them the official copy of my clean (aside from a few speeding tickets and an accident from 1999) FBI background report, they still say that there are 'public records' that they are using and for the 'safety of the AirBnB platform,' they don't want my money. We have a long way to go until this country can truly start to fix the 'prison' problem, but, it won't start until the country, as a whole, starts taking a different view of rehabilitation, corrections, and punishment.

skissane 10y ago

The article mentions machines attached to young men's penises to "measure their arousal", a prosecutor demanding a photo of a teenage boy's erect penis, masturbation diaries – their so-called "therapy" sounds like a sexual assault in itself, sexual abuse committed by the state and its agents.

Overtonwindow 10y ago

IMHO acts committed prior to 18 should not warrant inclusion on the sex offender registry, unless they are so egregious and violent that a high bar has been crossed.

DanBC 10y ago
Siblings are one of the main perpetrators of sexual abuse. This isn't normal sexual exploration, but actual abuse. http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/sibabuse.htm http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/sibabuse.htm

makecheck 10y ago

There is a huge problem with “accusation equals conviction”, and a huge problem with “let’s just keep adding punishments to already-convicted people”. There also seems to be no automatic apology mechanism after wrongful accusations or convictions, requiring one to spend even more time and money to be given even the most basic repayments for a life-destroying situation. If I had to pick one thing to fix first, it should be COMPLETELY ILLEGAL TO DISCLOSE MERE ACCUSATIONS (no media coverage, etc.). Disclosure, particularly for sexual crimes, has been shown to have just as much of a career-destroying and family-destroying effect as an actual conviction, and the “hehe, sorry, wrong guy, you are free to go” after the ordeal never undoes the damage. It is a shameful, garbage way for society to operate.

kirykl 10y ago

The key problem is the registry seems almost like a minimum penalty. Life in prison is a major penalty, life on the registry should be also considered as such. It loses all meaning when it contains people who have been convicted of taking selfies.