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I agree. And I think this is why Adobe's anti-trust activity against Apple won't go very far. Apple is very comfortable taking part of the market, owning it,

by symesc 16y ago

I agree. And I think this is why Adobe's anti-trust activity against Apple won't go very far. Apple is very comfortable taking part of the market, owning it, doing things their way, and making boatloads of money. They are not trying to be everything to everyone. Disclosure: I just switched from iPhone to a Google N1 because I was tired of the box Apple put me in.

revaaron 16y ago
@symesc: I just switched from an iPhone to a N1 for the same reason. An inferior phone for a dozen reasons- but a switch I plan to stick with, for now.
- blhack 16y ago
  An inferior phone for a dozen reasons Could you elaborate on that? Everybody I know who has an N1 loves it...
  - Volscio 16y ago
    Just went from iPhone 2G/AT&T to HTC Droid Incredible/Verizon. SO much better in every way.
    - jacoblyles 16y ago
      Except viewing in the sunlight.
      - revaaron 16y ago
        And lack of global copy/paste, Exchange Calendar support, etc. But especially the viewing in sunlight. :P
        theBobMcCormick 16y ago
        Full Exchange support is available in several third party apps (IMHO, that's where it belongs. I despise Exchange).
  - ben1040 16y ago
    I can't speak on behalf of the grandparent poster but my gripes are not at all with the N1 hardware itself -- in fact the N1 is quite possibly the best put together phone I've owned. My issues are with Android and how it still feels rough around the edges. 1) Lack of an integrated mail tool. I really don't care so much about POP/IMAP folder integration but why do I need two email apps, one for Gmail and one for IMAP. The stock IMAP client sucks for that matter and I've had a lot better luck with Jesse Vincent's K9Mail fork off the core mail app. 2) The pull down notification bar seems clunky. On one hand it's nice to see at a glance all the things that happened on my phone while I wasn't using it. However when "you have unread mail" or "missed call" is mixed in with "XYZ song is playing" it gets sort of muddled. 3) Deleting an app is quite possibly the most unintuitive thing on the whole phone. If you're used to just hitting an "X" on the home screen from the iPhone you're in for a disappointment. None of these are dealbreakers for me and in general I am still very satisfied with my N1. However it seems to me that Android is still very much a platform for hackers. For example, Android has a running process list with an option to kill tasks on the phone. Not so on the iPhone, because the OS developers clearly decided their users shouldn't even have to think about this.
    - ergo98 16y ago
      >For example, Android has a running process list with an option to kill tasks on the phone. Android does not have this. There are third party applications that do task management, however the word "placebo" applies to most advocates of them, and user task management should never be necessary. If the system needs resources it dehydrates tasks and terminates them, and this is a cardinal foundation of the platform. The new iPhone multitasking system works in a very similar manner to how Android has always worked, it should be mentioned. >Lack of an integrated mail tool. I really don't care so much about POP/IMAP folder integration but why do I need two email apps, one for Gmail and one for IMAP. Because the gmail app has different features and functions? > Deleting an app is quite possibly the most unintuitive thing on the whole phone. Now this is just weird. The most obviously way to uninstall an app is to simply go into downloads (where you installed it) and pick uninstall. The second to go into applications in settings and uninstall. Your gripes are seemingly that you've been mentally debilitated by using the iPhone, and now you use everything relative to how the iPhone works.
  - revaaron 16y ago
    The list of things is pretty long... Notes for an eventual review here: Read my outline here: http://meef.us/~rev/n1/n1-notes.txt http://meef.us/~rev/n1/n1-notes.txt @ergo98: Please elaborate. Even if I concede that my problems with multitasking are imaginary, I'd love to find out how I can enable built-in support for Exchange calendaring, copy from emails, and make the N1's screen readable in bright sunlight... Believe me, I'd love to find out there was just a preference I missed! (replying here because I can't reply to your comment directly)
    - ergo98 16y ago
      >The list of things is pretty long... The N1 has flaws, but many of your complaints are hilariously wrong. The fact that you give pronouncements on multitasking borders on comical, as you have no understanding about how Android's multitasking works.
      - revaaron 16y ago
        Please elaborate. Even if I concede that my problems with multitasking are imaginary, I'd love to find out how I can enable built-in support for Exchange calendaring, copy from emails, and make the N1's screen readable in bright sunlight... Believe me, I'd love to find out there was just a preference I missed! I understand how Android's multitasking is supposed to work, but in my experience it isn't up to snuff. From your tone, I imagine you'd ask me to put up with a sluggish phone rather than doing something to deal with it. Maybe it'll get better in 2.2.
    - deleted 16y ago
      [deleted]
- ergo98 16y ago
  >An inferior phone for a dozen reasons The iPhone 3GS is an inferior phone for a dozen reasons. In fact it could be called crippled.
  - revaaron 16y ago
    @ergo98: The 3GS is indeed crippled, but an objective user would be hard pressed to call it inferior. In the end, to each their own- some folks (including myself) are willing to put up with the limitations of the N1, and some folks are willing to put up with the limitations of an unjailbroken iPhone.
    - ergo98 16y ago
      >some folks (including myself) are willing to put up with the limitations of the N1 Which limitations would those be? >but an objective user would be hard pressed to call it inferior It is absolutely inferior in at least a dozen ways. It is superior in a variety of other ways (polish), however I am simply using the same phrasing that you used relative to the N1.
    - papachito 16y ago
      This is a threaded forum, you don't need to use the @ergo98 thing like on twitter.
      - revaaron 16y ago
        heh, thanks for the heads up! A habit from other threaded boards, even though the syntax is twitter. Some folks still manage to get confused about who is speaking to whom- but point taken, this isn't slashdot. :)
- symesc 16y ago
  My switch was an interesting one. My hopes and expectations for Android on the N1 were about here (holds hand 12 inches off of desk). After two days with it I honestly had a headache. It just didn't work the way I thought it would, after having spent the better part of 3 years on iPod Touch and iPhone. Maybe the headache was my brain creating new neural pathways? Regardless, my opinion was here (hand 6 inches off of desk). This was my trough of disillusionment. I even cheated. I turned on my now-SIM-less iPhone and checked my twitter feed. I felt dirty. Used. Then something clicked. First I was finding things I could do with Android that I couldn't do with iPhone. Things like downloading 20mb+ podcasts without connecting to my Mac. Things like finding apps like AppBrain that create meaningful recommendations for me. Things like putting widgets on the screen instead of just icons. And the ease of multitasking? Sigh. My impression of this platform is now here (hand 24 inches above desk). This is not to say there aren't issues. My battery life is terrible and I'm actively experimenting with ways to change this. Overall the Android platform is "scruffier" than iPhone, and by that I mean moving from one app to the next can be jarring from a usability perspective. But that's part of what I like about Android. If the iPhone is like the suburbs, rows and rows of consistent housing and 2.2 children, Android is like living downtown where the action is. Sure it's dangerous. And now I wouldn't want to have my wife and kids down there after hours. They have iPhones and iPods. Safer that way. But I'm not going back the burbs. In fact, I gave my iPhone away to a buddy who had his stolen. I don't miss it. If Apple delivers something equally as compelling to my inner geek, great, I'll get one. Until then, I have never been happier with my phone.
  - revaaron 16y ago
    I'd only used an iPhone for 6 months, but the experience was positive enough that I'm still in the headache phase with the N1. Largely over hardware problems that will likely never be solved until a later revision: battery life, AMOLED screen being unreadable in direct sunlight, the camera can take 1-4 seconds before snapping a photo, dust under the screen, low-end multitouch sensor, and flaky touch sensing (often thinks I'm pressing an inch down). I feel sort of ripped off when I think of some of those aspects. Don't get me wrong, there things I prefer, even over a jailbroken iPhone- especially the notifications system. That's genius, IMHO. My trough is the Facebook app- I went from making a few photo posts a day, mostly of my kid, to one or two over the last two weeks. Never bothered to update Feacebook until I got an iPhone- it's rough enough on Android that I've stopped.

by symesc 16y ago

revaaron 16y ago

@symesc: I just switched from an iPhone to a N1 for the same reason. An inferior phone for a dozen reasons- but a switch I plan to stick with, for now.

blhack 16y ago
An inferior phone for a dozen reasons Could you elaborate on that? Everybody I know who has an N1 loves it...
- Volscio 16y ago
  Just went from iPhone 2G/AT&T to HTC Droid Incredible/Verizon. SO much better in every way.
  - jacoblyles 16y ago
    Except viewing in the sunlight.
    - revaaron 16y ago
      And lack of global copy/paste, Exchange Calendar support, etc. But especially the viewing in sunlight. :P
      - theBobMcCormick 16y ago
        Full Exchange support is available in several third party apps (IMHO, that's where it belongs. I despise Exchange).
- ben1040 16y ago
  I can't speak on behalf of the grandparent poster but my gripes are not at all with the N1 hardware itself -- in fact the N1 is quite possibly the best put together phone I've owned. My issues are with Android and how it still feels rough around the edges. 1) Lack of an integrated mail tool. I really don't care so much about POP/IMAP folder integration but why do I need two email apps, one for Gmail and one for IMAP. The stock IMAP client sucks for that matter and I've had a lot better luck with Jesse Vincent's K9Mail fork off the core mail app. 2) The pull down notification bar seems clunky. On one hand it's nice to see at a glance all the things that happened on my phone while I wasn't using it. However when "you have unread mail" or "missed call" is mixed in with "XYZ song is playing" it gets sort of muddled. 3) Deleting an app is quite possibly the most unintuitive thing on the whole phone. If you're used to just hitting an "X" on the home screen from the iPhone you're in for a disappointment. None of these are dealbreakers for me and in general I am still very satisfied with my N1. However it seems to me that Android is still very much a platform for hackers. For example, Android has a running process list with an option to kill tasks on the phone. Not so on the iPhone, because the OS developers clearly decided their users shouldn't even have to think about this.
  - ergo98 16y ago
    >For example, Android has a running process list with an option to kill tasks on the phone. Android does not have this. There are third party applications that do task management, however the word "placebo" applies to most advocates of them, and user task management should never be necessary. If the system needs resources it dehydrates tasks and terminates them, and this is a cardinal foundation of the platform. The new iPhone multitasking system works in a very similar manner to how Android has always worked, it should be mentioned. >Lack of an integrated mail tool. I really don't care so much about POP/IMAP folder integration but why do I need two email apps, one for Gmail and one for IMAP. Because the gmail app has different features and functions? > Deleting an app is quite possibly the most unintuitive thing on the whole phone. Now this is just weird. The most obviously way to uninstall an app is to simply go into downloads (where you installed it) and pick uninstall. The second to go into applications in settings and uninstall. Your gripes are seemingly that you've been mentally debilitated by using the iPhone, and now you use everything relative to how the iPhone works.
- revaaron 16y ago
  The list of things is pretty long... Notes for an eventual review here: Read my outline here: http://meef.us/~rev/n1/n1-notes.txt http://meef.us/~rev/n1/n1-notes.txt @ergo98: Please elaborate. Even if I concede that my problems with multitasking are imaginary, I'd love to find out how I can enable built-in support for Exchange calendaring, copy from emails, and make the N1's screen readable in bright sunlight... Believe me, I'd love to find out there was just a preference I missed! (replying here because I can't reply to your comment directly)
  - ergo98 16y ago
    >The list of things is pretty long... The N1 has flaws, but many of your complaints are hilariously wrong. The fact that you give pronouncements on multitasking borders on comical, as you have no understanding about how Android's multitasking works.
    - revaaron 16y ago
      Please elaborate. Even if I concede that my problems with multitasking are imaginary, I'd love to find out how I can enable built-in support for Exchange calendaring, copy from emails, and make the N1's screen readable in bright sunlight... Believe me, I'd love to find out there was just a preference I missed! I understand how Android's multitasking is supposed to work, but in my experience it isn't up to snuff. From your tone, I imagine you'd ask me to put up with a sluggish phone rather than doing something to deal with it. Maybe it'll get better in 2.2.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
ergo98 16y ago
>An inferior phone for a dozen reasons The iPhone 3GS is an inferior phone for a dozen reasons. In fact it could be called crippled.
- revaaron 16y ago
  @ergo98: The 3GS is indeed crippled, but an objective user would be hard pressed to call it inferior. In the end, to each their own- some folks (including myself) are willing to put up with the limitations of the N1, and some folks are willing to put up with the limitations of an unjailbroken iPhone.
  - ergo98 16y ago
    >some folks (including myself) are willing to put up with the limitations of the N1 Which limitations would those be? >but an objective user would be hard pressed to call it inferior It is absolutely inferior in at least a dozen ways. It is superior in a variety of other ways (polish), however I am simply using the same phrasing that you used relative to the N1.
  - papachito 16y ago
    This is a threaded forum, you don't need to use the @ergo98 thing like on twitter.
    - revaaron 16y ago
      heh, thanks for the heads up! A habit from other threaded boards, even though the syntax is twitter. Some folks still manage to get confused about who is speaking to whom- but point taken, this isn't slashdot. :)
symesc 16y ago
My switch was an interesting one. My hopes and expectations for Android on the N1 were about here (holds hand 12 inches off of desk). After two days with it I honestly had a headache. It just didn't work the way I thought it would, after having spent the better part of 3 years on iPod Touch and iPhone. Maybe the headache was my brain creating new neural pathways? Regardless, my opinion was here (hand 6 inches off of desk). This was my trough of disillusionment. I even cheated. I turned on my now-SIM-less iPhone and checked my twitter feed. I felt dirty. Used. Then something clicked. First I was finding things I could do with Android that I couldn't do with iPhone. Things like downloading 20mb+ podcasts without connecting to my Mac. Things like finding apps like AppBrain that create meaningful recommendations for me. Things like putting widgets on the screen instead of just icons. And the ease of multitasking? Sigh. My impression of this platform is now here (hand 24 inches above desk). This is not to say there aren't issues. My battery life is terrible and I'm actively experimenting with ways to change this. Overall the Android platform is "scruffier" than iPhone, and by that I mean moving from one app to the next can be jarring from a usability perspective. But that's part of what I like about Android. If the iPhone is like the suburbs, rows and rows of consistent housing and 2.2 children, Android is like living downtown where the action is. Sure it's dangerous. And now I wouldn't want to have my wife and kids down there after hours. They have iPhones and iPods. Safer that way. But I'm not going back the burbs. In fact, I gave my iPhone away to a buddy who had his stolen. I don't miss it. If Apple delivers something equally as compelling to my inner geek, great, I'll get one. Until then, I have never been happier with my phone.
- revaaron 16y ago
  I'd only used an iPhone for 6 months, but the experience was positive enough that I'm still in the headache phase with the N1. Largely over hardware problems that will likely never be solved until a later revision: battery life, AMOLED screen being unreadable in direct sunlight, the camera can take 1-4 seconds before snapping a photo, dust under the screen, low-end multitouch sensor, and flaky touch sensing (often thinks I'm pressing an inch down). I feel sort of ripped off when I think of some of those aspects. Don't get me wrong, there things I prefer, even over a jailbroken iPhone- especially the notifications system. That's genius, IMHO. My trough is the Facebook app- I went from making a few photo posts a day, mostly of my kid, to one or two over the last two weeks. Never bothered to update Feacebook until I got an iPhone- it's rough enough on Android that I've stopped.