6 ms·

Making Time for Side Projects

129 points by bgilham 10y ago

pgm8705 10y ago
I'm on board with all his points except for "Stop doing shit you hate." Lovely idea, but completely unrealistic.
- brianwawok 10y ago
  Depends how wealthy you are I guess. If you have a billion dollars, I doubt you need to do ANYTHING you don't like. As your money scales down, you may have to do a few more things you hate ;) However I think it might be easier to find joy in things you hate vs just hating them :)
  - dasboth 10y ago
    > it might be easier to find joy in things you hate That is arguably the key to happiness :)
- herbst 10y ago
  I quit my job, moved to a country where i can life of the money i have and work exclusively on my side projects while outsourcing stuff i dont like. I mean, its not so far catched if you have no kids & wife.
  - tertius 10y ago
    I love my wife and son a lot more than I hate some of the things I don't like to do. That doesn't mean I should keep doing things I don't like...
    - herbst 10y ago
      yeah i see that point. I am really glad i realized that i could do that before i had serious stuff going on.
- bgilham 10y ago
  Perhaps. I'm lucky to work a job I love, so I have that privilege. But there used to be a lot of stuff I hated doing that I've been able to ditch. I probably could have written that point in a more realistic way.
- 6DM 10y ago
  I agree for the most part, you can't just drop everything because you're frustrated. You probably have people depending on you for income, or find moving basically impossible. I will say this though, you really should keep a keen eye out for something better. I have a cousin who lives in a rough neighborhood. I don't mean scary looking, I mean bullets flying and blood soaked people walking down the street at night (literally saw that the last time I drove out of there). When I was a kid living there, I always thought to myself there's got to be something better and I hated the area. They choose to embrace it. Now, years later, streets are as dangerous as ever. They're still there and I found something a lot better. I had a few lucky breaks, but I was watching for them and I didn't let it pass me by. My wife did the same, moved to entirely different countries and learned the language there. We treat our jobs the same, when we find it's something we hate, we work toward fixing that. We talk to management about issues that come up. We job search when we have too. We don't give up, we work toward something better.
- ensiferum 10y ago
  Neither poor enough nor rich enough not to do what you don't want to do. The curse of "middle class" so to speak.
dpflan 10y ago
It seems as simple as make time for yourself and your ideas and your actions, then actually use that time with intention and focus.
- bgilham 10y ago
  It's simple, but not necessarily easy.
calferreira 10y ago
I think the main issue on side projects is managing your own expectations. You have to be realistic and think that as the name implies is something you do on the side and it's not your main priority. So try to work on it as much as you can but don't blame yourself if you can't work on it for a day or a few days. We all have lives and have stuff to do that are more important then side projects otherwise they wouldn't be called that way. I'm devoting a single our per day on an android app and i'm having a great progress, i'm doing a tiny feature every day. And that's fine, it's done when it's done, i'm the one doing it and managing so there's absolutely no problem. If you start looking at the side project in a very serious way, you'll end up with guilt , frustration and remorse and that just kills the fun out of it.
- bgilham 10y ago
  That's definitely something to keep in mind. Thanks for the reminder :) It's so easy to focus on getting shit done, to the exclusion of treating yourself well sometimes. I think I need to plan a follow-up.
- 0xfeba 10y ago
  How, with just an hour, do you manage to get anything meaningful done? I've tried that and I have to spend 10 minutes figuring out where I was, 15 minutes researching how to do the next bit that I want (esp. for a project in a new dev environment), 10 minutes upgrading various libraries or other stuff that is needed/needs updating, and then maybe 25 minutes of actual coding. I progresses very slowly. Maybe my side projects are too ambitious, at least relative to my skill in their respective areas.
  - knz 10y ago
    Isn't this one of the appeals of the "Don't break the chain"/Jerry Seinfeld approach? My working on something each day, even if only for an hour, you keep the mental tasks associated with development in the "front" of you brain. Likewise using tools like Trello - make simple lists "To do, doing, done", rank them in order, and start working on whatever is at the top of the "to do" list?
  - 10y ago
afoot 10y ago
I wonder how many hours that would have otherwise been productive have been spent reading about productivity.
- herbst 10y ago
  Thats exactly what i thought when i stopped reading anything like that. Most entrepreneurs will give you huge lists of must reads. I rather code on my projects.
  - luxpir 10y ago
    I think most people do that when motivated. It's when you lose your main motivators, or circumstances change, that's when it's helpful to read how others have brought the ship back around. Kudos to you for having projects that keep you motivated though.
- bgilham 10y ago
  Heh. That's why I called it out in the post too. It's definitely something I've fallen into. Reading about productivity can be useful, IF you use what you read. Most don't.
  - tertius 10y ago
    If you don't act on what you learn you're just escaping. I think many many are in a similar boat. I try to tell myself the above and realize that I should spend my "reading" time on things other than "productivity." I.e. planned procrastination isn't a bad thing. Just don't fool yourself that you're being productive.
analogwzrd 10y ago
Regarding accepting meetings, etc. Robert Heinlein has a great quote... “Do not confuse "duty" with what other people expect of you; they are utterly different. Duty is a debt you owe to yourself to fulfill obligations you have assumed voluntarily. Paying that debt can entail anything from years of patient work to instant willingness to die. Difficult it may be, but the reward is self-respect. But there is no reward at all for doing what other people expect of you, and to do so is not merely difficult, but impossible. It is easier to deal with a footpad than it is with the leech who wants "just a few minutes of your time, please—this won't take long." Time is your total capital, and the minutes of your life are painfully few. If you allow yourself to fall into the vice of agreeing to such requests, they quickly snowball to the point where these parasites will use up 100 percent of your time—and squawk for more! So learn to say No—and to be rude about it when necessary. Otherwise you will not have time to carry out your duty, or to do your own work, and certainly no time for love and happiness. The termites will nibble away your life and leave none of it for you. (This rule does not mean that you must not do a favor for a friend, or even a stranger. But let the choice be yours. Don't do it because it is "expected" of you.)”
- ryandrake 10y ago
  But the article is about side projects, i.e. projects being done at home or otherwise outside of work. Who the heck struggles with juggling meetings outside of work? Do people have conference rooms in their house or something?
  - cableshaft 10y ago
    Do you have friends that invite you to things on a regular basis, or groups you belong to that ask you to host or present? It's possible for that to take up all of your spare time if you let it. I kinda did for awhile, I've been trying to reign it in a bit lately.
  - BirdieNZ 10y ago
    Volunteer organisations also have regular meetings, and if you're involved with multiple volunteer organisations then it can quickly become a time management issue.
fucking_idiot 10y ago
Sure - do that. Make sure you have enough food on the table for your children and your girlfriend doesn't think your a fucking loser.
fucking_idiot 10y ago
Just make sure you realize that there is a life out there. You're missing out. How much longer do you have left to live? You need to hang out with your kids and GF. Life is really short.
albertTJames 10y ago
I wonder who can afford to say no every time they are not thinking HELL YEAH ! I think HELL YEAH ! probably twice a year...
paki123 10y ago
that hand though
ensiferum 10y ago
Also: - spend less time at work (nobody cares about those stupid TPS reports anyway) - work smarter, i.e. produce more per unit of work. - focus only on the stuff that actually matters. - commit to task. I now set a goal (completing a small task such as fix a bug, implement a feature etc) for everytime I plan to work on my projects. For example next weekend: saturday -> setup webdev environment, sunday -> redesign my personal webpage.
- IndianAstronaut 10y ago
  Setting up bitesize tasks is the best way to make progress. Add a new div to my page today, set up a function to handle it tomorrow, clean up a page after, etc.
erikb 10y ago
The question is how, after working 40+ of the best hours of your life on other things, spending another two hours in traffic and another two hours with your family. Then somehow you need to get out of the tv chair and to your desk and put in another two to four hours of side project work. The question is not about understanding that consuming != producing.
anthonylukach 10y ago
For me (and I'm guessing a lot of other developers) the hard part is balancing time between side projects and the other passions in life. I love diving in to a new technology and building things when I get home from work, I have seemingly bottomless energy for that. The real hard part is ensuring that you're not neglecting all the other responsibilities in life: partner, kids, friends, chores, etc. The thing about the software industry is that there is always so much to learn. I always wonder how field leaders manage their personal lives whilst remaining sharp and current on emerging technologies and methodologies. That's the real challenge, staying abreast on the state of the art while not becoming a hermit.
TrevorJ 10y ago
I don't totally buy the "Stop doing things you hate" advice. I've learned over the years that anything worth doing is going to walk you through the valley of drudgery at some point. Doing things well always includes aspects that you may not enjoy, but many times it is worth working on it anyway to get to the goal.
tmaly 10y ago
Taking action is probably the best advice one can get out of that post. I have a small side project I have been working on over the past couple of years. If I am lucky I get a hour a day Monday to Friday to work on it. You really have to push yourself if you want to make progress on something.
comments_db 10y ago
"...But every second you spend learning about productivity is a second you aren’t, well, being productive..."

129 points by bgilham 10y ago

pgm8705 10y ago

I'm on board with all his points except for "Stop doing shit you hate." Lovely idea, but completely unrealistic.

brianwawok 10y ago
Depends how wealthy you are I guess. If you have a billion dollars, I doubt you need to do ANYTHING you don't like. As your money scales down, you may have to do a few more things you hate ;) However I think it might be easier to find joy in things you hate vs just hating them :)
- dasboth 10y ago
  > it might be easier to find joy in things you hate That is arguably the key to happiness :)
herbst 10y ago
I quit my job, moved to a country where i can life of the money i have and work exclusively on my side projects while outsourcing stuff i dont like. I mean, its not so far catched if you have no kids & wife.
- tertius 10y ago
  I love my wife and son a lot more than I hate some of the things I don't like to do. That doesn't mean I should keep doing things I don't like...
  - herbst 10y ago
    yeah i see that point. I am really glad i realized that i could do that before i had serious stuff going on.
bgilham 10y ago
Perhaps. I'm lucky to work a job I love, so I have that privilege. But there used to be a lot of stuff I hated doing that I've been able to ditch. I probably could have written that point in a more realistic way.
6DM 10y ago
I agree for the most part, you can't just drop everything because you're frustrated. You probably have people depending on you for income, or find moving basically impossible. I will say this though, you really should keep a keen eye out for something better. I have a cousin who lives in a rough neighborhood. I don't mean scary looking, I mean bullets flying and blood soaked people walking down the street at night (literally saw that the last time I drove out of there). When I was a kid living there, I always thought to myself there's got to be something better and I hated the area. They choose to embrace it. Now, years later, streets are as dangerous as ever. They're still there and I found something a lot better. I had a few lucky breaks, but I was watching for them and I didn't let it pass me by. My wife did the same, moved to entirely different countries and learned the language there. We treat our jobs the same, when we find it's something we hate, we work toward fixing that. We talk to management about issues that come up. We job search when we have too. We don't give up, we work toward something better.
ensiferum 10y ago
Neither poor enough nor rich enough not to do what you don't want to do. The curse of "middle class" so to speak.

dpflan 10y ago

It seems as simple as make time for yourself and your ideas and your actions, then actually use that time with intention and focus.

bgilham 10y ago
It's simple, but not necessarily easy.

calferreira 10y ago

I think the main issue on side projects is managing your own expectations. You have to be realistic and think that as the name implies is something you do on the side and it's not your main priority. So try to work on it as much as you can but don't blame yourself if you can't work on it for a day or a few days. We all have lives and have stuff to do that are more important then side projects otherwise they wouldn't be called that way. I'm devoting a single our per day on an android app and i'm having a great progress, i'm doing a tiny feature every day. And that's fine, it's done when it's done, i'm the one doing it and managing so there's absolutely no problem. If you start looking at the side project in a very serious way, you'll end up with guilt , frustration and remorse and that just kills the fun out of it.

bgilham 10y ago
That's definitely something to keep in mind. Thanks for the reminder :) It's so easy to focus on getting shit done, to the exclusion of treating yourself well sometimes. I think I need to plan a follow-up.
0xfeba 10y ago
How, with just an hour, do you manage to get anything meaningful done? I've tried that and I have to spend 10 minutes figuring out where I was, 15 minutes researching how to do the next bit that I want (esp. for a project in a new dev environment), 10 minutes upgrading various libraries or other stuff that is needed/needs updating, and then maybe 25 minutes of actual coding. I progresses very slowly. Maybe my side projects are too ambitious, at least relative to my skill in their respective areas.
- knz 10y ago
  Isn't this one of the appeals of the "Don't break the chain"/Jerry Seinfeld approach? My working on something each day, even if only for an hour, you keep the mental tasks associated with development in the "front" of you brain. Likewise using tools like Trello - make simple lists "To do, doing, done", rank them in order, and start working on whatever is at the top of the "to do" list?
- 10y ago

afoot 10y ago

I wonder how many hours that would have otherwise been productive have been spent reading about productivity.

herbst 10y ago
Thats exactly what i thought when i stopped reading anything like that. Most entrepreneurs will give you huge lists of must reads. I rather code on my projects.
- luxpir 10y ago
  I think most people do that when motivated. It's when you lose your main motivators, or circumstances change, that's when it's helpful to read how others have brought the ship back around. Kudos to you for having projects that keep you motivated though.
bgilham 10y ago
Heh. That's why I called it out in the post too. It's definitely something I've fallen into. Reading about productivity can be useful, IF you use what you read. Most don't.
- tertius 10y ago
  If you don't act on what you learn you're just escaping. I think many many are in a similar boat. I try to tell myself the above and realize that I should spend my "reading" time on things other than "productivity." I.e. planned procrastination isn't a bad thing. Just don't fool yourself that you're being productive.

analogwzrd 10y ago

Regarding accepting meetings, etc. Robert Heinlein has a great quote... “Do not confuse "duty" with what other people expect of you; they are utterly different. Duty is a debt you owe to yourself to fulfill obligations you have assumed voluntarily. Paying that debt can entail anything from years of patient work to instant willingness to die. Difficult it may be, but the reward is self-respect. But there is no reward at all for doing what other people expect of you, and to do so is not merely difficult, but impossible. It is easier to deal with a footpad than it is with the leech who wants "just a few minutes of your time, please—this won't take long." Time is your total capital, and the minutes of your life are painfully few. If you allow yourself to fall into the vice of agreeing to such requests, they quickly snowball to the point where these parasites will use up 100 percent of your time—and squawk for more! So learn to say No—and to be rude about it when necessary. Otherwise you will not have time to carry out your duty, or to do your own work, and certainly no time for love and happiness. The termites will nibble away your life and leave none of it for you. (This rule does not mean that you must not do a favor for a friend, or even a stranger. But let the choice be yours. Don't do it because it is "expected" of you.)”

ryandrake 10y ago
But the article is about side projects, i.e. projects being done at home or otherwise outside of work. Who the heck struggles with juggling meetings outside of work? Do people have conference rooms in their house or something?
- cableshaft 10y ago
  Do you have friends that invite you to things on a regular basis, or groups you belong to that ask you to host or present? It's possible for that to take up all of your spare time if you let it. I kinda did for awhile, I've been trying to reign it in a bit lately.
- BirdieNZ 10y ago
  Volunteer organisations also have regular meetings, and if you're involved with multiple volunteer organisations then it can quickly become a time management issue.

fucking_idiot 10y ago

Sure - do that. Make sure you have enough food on the table for your children and your girlfriend doesn't think your a fucking loser.

fucking_idiot 10y ago

Just make sure you realize that there is a life out there. You're missing out. How much longer do you have left to live? You need to hang out with your kids and GF. Life is really short.

albertTJames 10y ago

I wonder who can afford to say no every time they are not thinking HELL YEAH ! I think HELL YEAH ! probably twice a year...

paki123 10y ago

that hand though

ensiferum 10y ago

Also: - spend less time at work (nobody cares about those stupid TPS reports anyway) - work smarter, i.e. produce more per unit of work. - focus only on the stuff that actually matters. - commit to task. I now set a goal (completing a small task such as fix a bug, implement a feature etc) for everytime I plan to work on my projects. For example next weekend: saturday -> setup webdev environment, sunday -> redesign my personal webpage.

IndianAstronaut 10y ago
Setting up bitesize tasks is the best way to make progress. Add a new div to my page today, set up a function to handle it tomorrow, clean up a page after, etc.

erikb 10y ago

The question is how, after working 40+ of the best hours of your life on other things, spending another two hours in traffic and another two hours with your family. Then somehow you need to get out of the tv chair and to your desk and put in another two to four hours of side project work. The question is not about understanding that consuming != producing.

anthonylukach 10y ago

For me (and I'm guessing a lot of other developers) the hard part is balancing time between side projects and the other passions in life. I love diving in to a new technology and building things when I get home from work, I have seemingly bottomless energy for that. The real hard part is ensuring that you're not neglecting all the other responsibilities in life: partner, kids, friends, chores, etc. The thing about the software industry is that there is always so much to learn. I always wonder how field leaders manage their personal lives whilst remaining sharp and current on emerging technologies and methodologies. That's the real challenge, staying abreast on the state of the art while not becoming a hermit.

TrevorJ 10y ago

I don't totally buy the "Stop doing things you hate" advice. I've learned over the years that anything worth doing is going to walk you through the valley of drudgery at some point. Doing things well always includes aspects that you may not enjoy, but many times it is worth working on it anyway to get to the goal.

tmaly 10y ago

Taking action is probably the best advice one can get out of that post. I have a small side project I have been working on over the past couple of years. If I am lucky I get a hour a day Monday to Friday to work on it. You really have to push yourself if you want to make progress on something.

comments_db 10y ago

"...But every second you spend learning about productivity is a second you aren’t, well, being productive..."