8 ms·

I told my girlfriend (5 years) how I feel about diamonds and that I reject the very notion of buying a diamond engagement / wedding ring early on in our relatio

• TeMPOraL 10y ago
  Did you get to the point of explaining why you're against diamonds? Was she able to tell you why she wants a diamond in particular? To resolve this issue it would be good to exchange the exact, real reasons why one side wants the diamond and the other doesn't. But even then, it may end up your GF will insist on the diamond - while all the rational-in-the-vacuum reasons are against diamonds, there's this whole thing called culture, social pressure and someone spending half of their life imagining the perfect diamond ring. Those are perfectly valid reasons too. So if she insist, don't be angry at her - be angry at De Beers.
  • joecool1029 10y ago
    Yeah well, societal pressures only go so far in influencing a relationship. If the other party can't respect your values, an argument over a diamond is the least of your worries.
    • somestag 10y ago
      I dunno, I don't think it's that simple. For one, the "respect your values" arguments goes both ways: she values a diamond, he doesn't. If she insists on a diamond, she's not respecting his values. If he insists on no diamond, he's not respecting hers. It's very easy to justify going the no-diamond route, sure. From a financial point of view, it's just a bad idea. Some say the finances aren't the point, so you can turn to ethical arguments (diamonds are bloody business). You can't really lose the no-diamond argument; it's too easy to make. Still, it's awfully convenient for the guy to be the one making the argument against buying an expensive ring. This doesn't make the arguments wrong, but depending on the relationship, the girl might suspect that the guy is making those arguments, not out of financial responsibility or morality, but out of apathy or simply being cheap. The guy might be making sound arguments, but his ulterior motive might still be problematic, and the girl might be taking issue with that. Also, there is a whole lot of meaning (artificial, but real just the same) that goes into the rituals of marriage, and you can't just dismiss all of that with some textbook argument about diamond cartels. The relationship isn't doomed in this case; the couple can grow past it, and it's an opportunity to understand each other. The problem is, if either the guy or the girl takes on the perspective of "I'm obviously right and you're wrong if you disagree," then they're being unreasonable and stalling out the relationship. Both parties need to be honest and understand the other to get past it. The discussion over the diamonds may in fact be very important because it gets to the heart of a bunch of concurrent issues. (I'm using "guy" and "girl" here because that's the situation where these cultural norms are at play. Obviously any other combination of genders could have the same issues, though I suspect it's less common in those cases.)
      • moises_silva 10y ago
        > It's very easy to justify going the no-diamond route, sure. From a financial point of view, it's just a bad idea. Going with the nuts advice of spending a month's salary (or more!), yeah, that is awful, but, as I did, you can buy a diamond ring for less than < 1k (Canadian!). I'd have preferred not buy anything, but as you said, being reasonable in your relationship is about understanding what your partner values as well and try to reach a middle ground.
      • burfog 10y ago
        Going the no-diamond route is also a way to test the relationship. The more she expects a diamond, the better the test works.
        • joesb 10y ago
          It goes both way.
      • eeZah7Ux 10y ago
        > she values a diamond, he doesn't You are conflating moral values with financial value.
        • somestag 10y ago
          Not at all. Of all the reasons for wanting a diamond ring, the mere fact that it's expensive is relatively low on the list for many (most?) people, and even then the price is just a proxy for expressed commitment. If it were about the money, a million other things could take its place. Personal value is the sum of many different factors, of which finances, morality, tradition, etc. are all a part.
          • eeZah7Ux 10y ago
            "she values a diamond" sounds very different. If it was about "expressed commitment" donating a significant sum of money to a charity would be equivalent to buying a diamond. Now I wonder if that would float...
    • deleted 10y ago
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    • Can_Not 10y ago
      I'd rather not be with someone who is so callously materialistic. If she's not openly offended at the presumption of blood diamonds, she's not really my type.
  • jakebellacera 10y ago
    > So if she insist, don't be angry at her - be angry at De Beers. I completely agree. My fiancé and I are currently two engaged Americans, and we had a couple conversations about how we envision our wedding ceremony to happen. For the most part, we had very casual viewpoints on marriage (we don't need to make a big deal out of it), but she wanted a ring and I wasn't too hot on giving De Beers more money. She agreed with me, even admitted that it was a silly notion to have a diamond ring, but I can tell it's what she truly wanted. At the end of the day, I decided to go with the diamond and she really loves it. If I had gotten my way, I would've gone with an alternative like moissanite or a synthetic, but we're both happy with the outcome. It's good to see that Americans are starting to wake up about wedding culture, but I'm anticipating that it will take a few generations for most people to rid themselves of it. If I purchased an alternative gemstone for my fiancé, her parents would've been upset with me, but if my child wanted to get an alternative gemstone, I would praise them.
    • rincebrain 10y ago
      What about the synthetic diamond excluded it from the options?
      • TeMPOraL 10y ago
        Synthetic != "the real deal", which makes it (perceived as) worthless.
        • rincebrain 10y ago
          I know that's the argument for various people, I just wondered whether that was the case for their spouse, since synthetic is definitely a real diamond, albeit not one that took centuries to grow.
    • bluedevil2k 10y ago
      > Giving DeBeers more money DeBeers only has a 40% market share now. ALROSA has about 40% and they're basically a Russian government company.
    • 10y ago
  • ryandrake 10y ago
    > So if she insist, don't be angry at her - be angry at De Beers. By doing so, you're ignoring her agency and her role in the problem. It's not like DeBeers has some kind of mind control laser pointed at the brains of every woman in the world. They put out advertising, and some people fall for it. If you need to be angry about something, be angry about our education system which fails to teach people to think critically about what they see on their glowing god-screens.
    • TeMPOraL 10y ago
      I didn't mean that De Beers is actually lasing neurons in womens' brains. But they shaped the culture around western wedding rituals by a century's worth of heavy marketing. > If you need to be angry about something, be angry about our education system which fails to teach people to think critically about what they see on their glowing god-screens. I would cut the education system some slack here. Advertising isn't a physical constant - it's a dynamic, optimized product of other humans. Smart humans who weaponize psychological and sociological research to maximize the impact of marketing techniques. An individual doesn't stand much of a chance against it by the very virtue of how professional specialization works. Even if people all suddenly became perfect critical thinkers, advertising industry would focus on exploiting some other weak spots. > By doing so, you're ignoring her agency A tangent, but I'm increasingly believing that individuals have much less agency than it is generally believed. We all strongly respond to incentives, especially in areas that strongly matter to our lives.
    • alexhawdon 10y ago
      I'd agree with you if this were any other product. The marketing campaign in this instance was so utterly, totally, disastrously successful that it's become a cultural phenomena. Really, you've got to hand it to them. And I have to agree it's not a fault to be sensitive to the judgement of your peers.
      • vacri 10y ago
        It's still ignoring her responsibility if, when provided with the new information, she decides to ignore it.
  • hohenheim 10y ago
    If after the overwhelming evidence, you can't still reach a reasonable agreement, I think that is a very good reason to not marry someone. That is a the kind of pattern that would repeat for the rest of the life, and at some point you will max out and burst by spoiling the marriage. Why not instead be with someone who you can reason?
• dllthomas 10y ago
  She just wants to show the world that you would hurt poor people for her.
  • bluedevil2k 10y ago
    What are you even talking about? You do know that diamonds come from other places than war torn Africa, right?
    • dllthomas 10y ago
      The gem you're buying may not come from war torn Africa, but increased demand will be reflected there. Smuggling is a thing, and the Kimberly Process is flawed. ... or at least that was the state of things last I looked into this in depth; my knowledge may well be dated.
• baq 10y ago
  that's what crushing dreams looks like. nonetheless i agree with you, some dreams are just not worth it.
• noonespecial 10y ago
  The flashing red color in your peripheral vision? That's the warning light. It means you should reach down and pull the eject lever.
  • bluedevil2k 10y ago
    And what color is in her peripheral vision?
    • chii 10y ago
      Purple from the anger that her boyfriend doesn't love her enough to drop their own personal beliefs, and get that damned rock. For girls, it's not personal, it'd social. If her "friends" are such that they will look down on her if she didn't get a rock, she will insist on one. As a man, you must understand this.
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      • mavhc 10y ago
        If she wants a diamond why doesn't she just buy a diamond? Is anyone stopping her?
        • dllthomas 10y ago
          Someone can want a diamond, someone can want to be given a diamond, these are slightly different things.
      • Nursie 10y ago
        She needs better friends.
      • ionised 10y ago
        WHy would someone who loves you ever expect you to forego your personal beliefs to prove you love them? That sounds fucking disastrous.
• valarauca1 10y ago
  If symbols of love are more important then actual love you should get out of that relationship. Seems toxic.
  • dsacco 10y ago
    It's a bit rude to make an armchair analysis of someone's intimate relationship dynamics based on a single internet comment, don't you think?
• vwyunvnx 10y ago
  I've thought about what I would do in your situation. One way to counter the "you're cheap and don't love me enough to spend the money" thoughts that she may have is to spend the same amount of money. Say you buy her some kind of ring whatever setting / stone / etc... The rest of the "3 month's salary" marketing that has been shoved upon us you could donate to charity or give away to relatives, homeless or whatever. That along with explaining your rationale as someone else suggested would be good too. Show her resources online. Hearing it from someone else can help, show her you're not the only one. If you're still at a deadlock after that well, take it or leave it...
• dimino 10y ago
  This isn't really a place for relationship advice, but to frame it in the context of a startup, if a founder just won't talk about a decision you both need to make together, that's a huge red flag that maybe going into business with this person isn't the best idea. I haven't gone through this myself, but I've read that part of picking a great founder is finding someone you can talk through issues with, even if they're uncomfortable. Not talking about something is a much bigger issue than disagreeing about something.
  • alexhawdon 10y ago
    > This isn't really a place for relationship advice Yes. If we could let people relate their experience as customers without giving unwanted relationship advice that'd be great.
  • krisdol 10y ago
    Take it from another perspective, this is more like a cofounder (or really, two cofounders) being so headstrong that he won't budge on his opinion for the good of the company. If you explain clearly your viewpoints on diamonds, where those viewpoints are rooted, and the partner doesn't agree even after understanding your viewpoint, then you should consider compromising.
• bbcbasic 10y ago
  I would say think very carefully before deciding if you want to marry her. This advice applies to everyone really, but especially to you as this incident is a signal that there might be some incompatibility in your values, which is a warning sign. I'd say try and take this to the ultimate conclusion of resolving the topic amicably, without either side just giving in. Don't shut it down or put it off. A fight, or even a break up is better than carrying on as if it doesn't matter. This would be a good test of how things will go once you are married. Also read some books on choosing a partner / comparability. I would say that this should be the highest priority thing for you so ditch any side projects, say NO to overtime and sort this one out. Good luck, and feel free to take this unsolicited advice with a pinch of salt :-)
• bluedevil2k 10y ago
  Just buy her the diamond! If it's something that she really wants, then don't let your own feelings get in the way of that. Thats really selfish. Kind of the gist of being married is compromise. I mean, seriously, a ring could be had for $3k. You're going to throw away a 5 year relationship with someone you'd like to be married to because you won't buy her something that costs the same as the new stupid MacBook? She's not worth the $3k to you? She's the one who should be having second thoughts.
  • aquadrop 10y ago
    > Thats really selfish And it's not selfish of her to demand spending tons of money 'just because'? Of course each case is individual, but the whole situation can be a signal for a bunch of bad things (bad with money; can't use logic; don't care about man's feelings; etc). Maybe it is right thing to do to cut losses now.
  • moises_silva 10y ago
    > She's not worth the $3k to you? This is one of the most manipulative arguments I've heard from people. I can't put a price on what my wife or son are worth to me, yet, I'd not buy something just at any price because my wife or son want it. Thankfully I was in a position to talk to my wife and she just wanted something symbolic so we went with something for less than 1k. Another good argument to bring in this situation is to show you're willing to spend the money, just not on something like a diamond, offer perhaps take her to a ver nice vacation.
  • ionised 10y ago
    This is the most ridiculous thing I've heard in a while.
• NumberCruncher 10y ago
  And what if you do not want to get married unless she shows you how much she loves you by getting you a mustang?
• radoslawc 10y ago
  Next her. Honestly and from personal experience.
• deleted 10y ago
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• Lanzaa 10y ago
  You seem unable explain why she requires a diamond ring, which makes it very unlikely you would be able to change her mind. Engagement/wedding rings are status symbols. Most women feel this more strongly than men. When first engaged most women will want the ring to be noticed and be rather conspicuous about making it visible. Many of her friends and colleagues will comment on it and having a high value ring will be a point of pride. It feels good to show off. By saying you don't want to pay for a diamond, she may feel that she will be missing out on all of the pride and status effects. My own tactic for convincing my wife to accept a moissanite stoned ring was simple. Reframe it as the higher status option. The moissanite stones are higher quality and have more brilliance. Moissanite are "conflict-free" stones. We went ring shopping together and allowed her to choose rings/settings that she liked. I pointed out that some of the settings would be out of our price range even with a flawed diamond, but we could substitute a flawless moissanite and people would notice the improvement. Ultimately if she still wants a diamond stone, it is her choice and it is her status symbol.