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I was bitten by this this week. Tried to reuse my installer to install OS X El Capitan on a MBP without redownloading it over my super-fast 2Mbps internet conne

I was bitten by this this week. Tried to reuse my installer to install OS X El Capitan on a MBP without redownloading it over my super-fast 2Mbps internet connection. First, I try to install it by just copying the installer app - "can't be verified". Then I make a bootable USB stick using DiskMaker X - "can't be verified". I run an integrity check on the installer - all good. I then try running `/path/to/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/USB-STICK --applicationpath /path/to/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app --nointeraction` - "can't be verified". Finally I give up and the system is installed via the App Store. The download fails once, it finally completes, and I am left clueless as to why I couldn't reuse the old installer. An "expired certificate" error message would have saved me many hours. It's unfortunate for the user that Apple puts so little emphasis on letting them be their own tech support.

mikeash 11y ago
Apple is just awful about providing meaningful, useful errors. The worst is AirPlay. When it fails to connect, which is about 33% of the time, there's nothing. It doesn't even pop up a generic alert, it just silently (or not so silently, if you're playing music) reverts to local playback. Many other examples abound. Most errors at least provide a message, but one so generic as to be useless.
- LordKano 11y ago
  I go back to the days of System Bombs and Unimplemented Trap errors. It was maddening.
  - steveax 11y ago
    Ahh the bomb, a great (Susan Kare) icon: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomb_(icon) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomb_(icon) MacsBug was an essential utility back in those days.
    - LordKano 11y ago
      I never got around to learning to use MacsBug. I just stopped running applications that caused too many crashes. I miss those days dearly. I LOVED being a Mac user during the 1990s.
- gherkin0 11y ago
  That's pretty terrible. No software performs flawlessly, so good error messages are a key part of usability.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    I think Apple is trending away from being usable and towards looking usable. Simple, friendly error messages look much better....
- x0x0 11y ago
  or TimeMachine "sparsebundle already in use" is the FOAD of error messages. I do love how the (now stale) tools to fix this are maintained by a volunteer on an external site unrelated to apple. I try not to be too grumpy about it, but I paid $3k for a laptop not to have to fucking deal with windows-style normal operation of the OS and related tools is busted and you're gonna sink hours into debugging it. And least when linux breaks it tends to leave error messages and details in syslog...
  - username223 11y ago
    My latest pet peeve is `mds_stores` deciding it needs to spend forever using my iPod, so I can't unplug it without incurring a scolding. It's not hard for Mac OS to stay less terrible to configure than Linux, and less terrible to use than Windows, but that's a low bar.
    - r00fus 11y ago
      Do you have your iPod configured in iTunes with "Enable disk use"? Sounds like Spotlight is trying to index it or something...
      - username223 11y ago
        I probably do. Thanks to my partial understanding of how the software works, I can guess that `mds_` is Spotlight trying to index my music player, but I wouldn't want to try to explain it to my dad. Software that responds to "eject this" with "no, because f* you" because it is busy creating meta-data is user-hostile.
  - 13thLetter 11y ago
    I switched from OSX Yosemite to Windows 8.1 a while back. I have had substantially fewer problems with Windows 8.1.
    - x0x0 11y ago
      hmm. windows 10's inability to not talk to microsoft skeeves me out though.
- Cieplak 11y ago
  Yeah, diagnostic messages can be pretty useless. Sometimes all you can do is tail -f /var/log/system.log
- pyre 11y ago
  Ugh. At work, the computers use AirWatch. Oh. My. God. They fill the OSX logs with debug messages. Literally "I got 8 bytes from this with this offset" type messages for an application that spends most of its time running in the background. Here is an example: 2016-03-03 10:59:16.863 PM AirWatch Agent[507]: void AgentReadCallback(NSData *__strong, NSFileHandle *__strong) [Line 1096] Agent received message of type 140 2016-03-03 10:59:16.863 PM AirWatch Agent[507]: -[AWAgentController isCurrentUserManaged] [Line 221] Current User is managed 2016-03-03 10:59:16.863 PM AirWatch Agent[507]: Server Starting new loop for data 2016-03-03 10:59:26.825 PM AirWatch Agent[507]: void AgentReadCallback(NSData *__strong, NSFileHandle *__strong) [Line 1096] Agent received message of type 140 2016-03-03 10:59:26.831 PM AirWatch Agent[507]: -[AWAgentController isCurrentUserManaged] [Line 221] Current User is managed 2016-03-03 10:59:26.832 PM AirWatch Agent[507]: Server Starting new loop for data Is this normal operating procedure for OSX apps? Fill the system.log with print statements in a loop that runs every ~10 seconds?
  - rbritton 11y ago
    It is for those that leave their debug logging enabled. A lot of code I've seen uses CocoaLumberjack[0] or something similar, which makes it easy to turn that off for production builds. [0]: https://github.com/CocoaLumberjack/CocoaLumberjack https://github.com/CocoaLumberjack/CocoaLumberjack
newxan 11y ago
Encountered the exact same issue. But all kind of weird bugs turned up in the older version of App Store, to the point where I had to re-format the drive. And the Apple forums are absolutely no help. took me 3 hours to do something that should have been trivial..
contingencies 11y ago
super-fast 2Mbps internet connection Don't complain. Even with torrents and 100Mbps fiber, we max out at 1MB/sec here. It reportedly costs 20,000CNY/month (~USD$4500) for an uninhibited 512k connection out of mainland China, if you can get it. (You generally can't.)
- comex 11y ago
  Not that that isn't awful, but 2Mbps is 4 times slower than 1MB/s...
  - contingencies 11y ago
    Sure. Actually we rarely get even that, except on domestic transfers. 1MB/sec is best-case, torrent-only scenario ~1-5AM. Makes you value mirror operators.
    - mystikal 11y ago
      Around 300 kB/sec lets you get 1GB/hour, which means you can get a perfectly watchable 1080p movie in 2 hours. Yes it's nice now that I have 3 MB/sec down, but it wasn't hell before and I lived with that for 10+ years. Many people still have this kind of connection - typically billed as 5000 down / 800 up. Streaming, I have no idea.
      - contingencies 11y ago
        Rest assured, I don't use the internet to download television.
        mystikal 11y ago
        Oh, that's interesting. Sorry for stereotyping you as a torrent user. What kind of large files are you downloading?
        11y ago
hrrsn 11y ago
I was hit by this issue too. Everything that came up online (and worked in the past) was to reset the date in the Terminal. Of course, that didn't help in the slightest.
blacksmith_tb 11y ago
But if you quickly use sudo .../createinstallmedia to make a bootable usb installer from your annoyingly re-downloaded App store installer, you should be safe from this, shouldn't you? That's what I did when I installed, but I haven't tried to use my usb installer, so I suppose it could have expired too. (edit) Sigh, yes, expired also. Re-downloading...
cpg 11y ago
Changing the date in the system (and disabling network time) worked well. A quick search led me to this solution, avoiding the whole re-download to please the sentient dictatorial master.

mikeash 11y ago

Apple is just awful about providing meaningful, useful errors. The worst is AirPlay. When it fails to connect, which is about 33% of the time, there's nothing. It doesn't even pop up a generic alert, it just silently (or not so silently, if you're playing music) reverts to local playback. Many other examples abound. Most errors at least provide a message, but one so generic as to be useless.

LordKano 11y ago
I go back to the days of System Bombs and Unimplemented Trap errors. It was maddening.
- steveax 11y ago
  Ahh the bomb, a great (Susan Kare) icon: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomb_(icon) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bomb_(icon) MacsBug was an essential utility back in those days.
  - LordKano 11y ago
    I never got around to learning to use MacsBug. I just stopped running applications that caused too many crashes. I miss those days dearly. I LOVED being a Mac user during the 1990s.
gherkin0 11y ago
That's pretty terrible. No software performs flawlessly, so good error messages are a key part of usability.
- mikeash 11y ago
  I think Apple is trending away from being usable and towards looking usable. Simple, friendly error messages look much better....
x0x0 11y ago
or TimeMachine "sparsebundle already in use" is the FOAD of error messages. I do love how the (now stale) tools to fix this are maintained by a volunteer on an external site unrelated to apple. I try not to be too grumpy about it, but I paid $3k for a laptop not to have to fucking deal with windows-style normal operation of the OS and related tools is busted and you're gonna sink hours into debugging it. And least when linux breaks it tends to leave error messages and details in syslog...
- username223 11y ago
  My latest pet peeve is `mds_stores` deciding it needs to spend forever using my iPod, so I can't unplug it without incurring a scolding. It's not hard for Mac OS to stay less terrible to configure than Linux, and less terrible to use than Windows, but that's a low bar.
  - r00fus 11y ago
    Do you have your iPod configured in iTunes with "Enable disk use"? Sounds like Spotlight is trying to index it or something...
    - username223 11y ago
      I probably do. Thanks to my partial understanding of how the software works, I can guess that `mds_` is Spotlight trying to index my music player, but I wouldn't want to try to explain it to my dad. Software that responds to "eject this" with "no, because f* you" because it is busy creating meta-data is user-hostile.
- 13thLetter 11y ago
  I switched from OSX Yosemite to Windows 8.1 a while back. I have had substantially fewer problems with Windows 8.1.
  - x0x0 11y ago
    hmm. windows 10's inability to not talk to microsoft skeeves me out though.
Cieplak 11y ago
Yeah, diagnostic messages can be pretty useless. Sometimes all you can do is tail -f /var/log/system.log
pyre 11y ago
Ugh. At work, the computers use AirWatch. Oh. My. God. They fill the OSX logs with debug messages. Literally "I got 8 bytes from this with this offset" type messages for an application that spends most of its time running in the background. Here is an example: 2016-03-03 10:59:16.863 PM AirWatch Agent[507]: void AgentReadCallback(NSData *__strong, NSFileHandle *__strong) [Line 1096] Agent received message of type 140 2016-03-03 10:59:16.863 PM AirWatch Agent[507]: -[AWAgentController isCurrentUserManaged] [Line 221] Current User is managed 2016-03-03 10:59:16.863 PM AirWatch Agent[507]: Server Starting new loop for data 2016-03-03 10:59:26.825 PM AirWatch Agent[507]: void AgentReadCallback(NSData *__strong, NSFileHandle *__strong) [Line 1096] Agent received message of type 140 2016-03-03 10:59:26.831 PM AirWatch Agent[507]: -[AWAgentController isCurrentUserManaged] [Line 221] Current User is managed 2016-03-03 10:59:26.832 PM AirWatch Agent[507]: Server Starting new loop for data Is this normal operating procedure for OSX apps? Fill the system.log with print statements in a loop that runs every ~10 seconds?
- rbritton 11y ago
  It is for those that leave their debug logging enabled. A lot of code I've seen uses CocoaLumberjack[0] or something similar, which makes it easy to turn that off for production builds. [0]: https://github.com/CocoaLumberjack/CocoaLumberjack https://github.com/CocoaLumberjack/CocoaLumberjack

newxan 11y ago

Encountered the exact same issue. But all kind of weird bugs turned up in the older version of App Store, to the point where I had to re-format the drive. And the Apple forums are absolutely no help. took me 3 hours to do something that should have been trivial..

contingencies 11y ago

super-fast 2Mbps internet connection Don't complain. Even with torrents and 100Mbps fiber, we max out at 1MB/sec here. It reportedly costs 20,000CNY/month (~USD$4500) for an uninhibited 512k connection out of mainland China, if you can get it. (You generally can't.)

comex 11y ago
Not that that isn't awful, but 2Mbps is 4 times slower than 1MB/s...
- contingencies 11y ago
  Sure. Actually we rarely get even that, except on domestic transfers. 1MB/sec is best-case, torrent-only scenario ~1-5AM. Makes you value mirror operators.
  - mystikal 11y ago
    Around 300 kB/sec lets you get 1GB/hour, which means you can get a perfectly watchable 1080p movie in 2 hours. Yes it's nice now that I have 3 MB/sec down, but it wasn't hell before and I lived with that for 10+ years. Many people still have this kind of connection - typically billed as 5000 down / 800 up. Streaming, I have no idea.
    - contingencies 11y ago
      Rest assured, I don't use the internet to download television.
      - mystikal 11y ago
        Oh, that's interesting. Sorry for stereotyping you as a torrent user. What kind of large files are you downloading?
        11y ago

hrrsn 11y ago

I was hit by this issue too. Everything that came up online (and worked in the past) was to reset the date in the Terminal. Of course, that didn't help in the slightest.

blacksmith_tb 11y ago

But if you quickly use sudo .../createinstallmedia to make a bootable usb installer from your annoyingly re-downloaded App store installer, you should be safe from this, shouldn't you? That's what I did when I installed, but I haven't tried to use my usb installer, so I suppose it could have expired too. (edit) Sigh, yes, expired also. Re-downloading...

cpg 11y ago

Changing the date in the system (and disabling network time) worked well. A quick search led me to this solution, avoiding the whole re-download to please the sentient dictatorial master.