7 ms·

Pixel C

68 points by pdknsk 11y ago

yami 11y ago
I looked interesting until I read it runs Android...
- vox_mollis 11y ago
  Not surprising. They rolled ChromeOS into the Android group.
- melling 11y ago
  What's wrong with Android? I mainly use iOS these days but I'm still holding out hope that Android becomes a real option on the "desktop".
  - notacoward 11y ago
    Lack of software. Or at least lack of high-quality software for getting real work done. I had an Android tablet for a while. It was nicely portable, had good battery life, could do a lot of things well, but I just couldn't find any apps I liked for two things I do often: ssh and creating presentations. One ssh app could do tunnels, but got all confused if I tried to open multiple terminal sessions. Another handled multiple sessions OK, but couldn't do tunnels. Then the two would interfere with one another if I tried to run both simultaneously. For presentations, many couldn't do something as basic as keep track of where my cursor was, and would add text at the wrong place. Others at least worked, but couldn't do anything more complex than a bullet list. A real email app would have been nice, but I had to use both home and work webmail (which are very different) instead. From what I can tell, all of this has only gotten a tiny bit better in the last couple of years. It would be great if there were more Android developers coming from the desktop space instead of the phone space, producing more desktop-like apps, but that doesn't seem to be the case. As long as that continues to be the case, using Android on one's primary machine will continue to be frustrating. ChromeOS, on the other hand, seems to be in better shape. I'm seriously debating with myself about whether to get a regular Pixel (not Pixel C) as my next main computer.
    - melling 11y ago
      Yes, obviously it's a chicken and egg problem. Once they sell 100,000,000 "desktop" devices that'll change. The reason Microsoft Windows destroyed everyone else was because you couldn't get quality software for most other computers. Windows Phone can't gain traction because it lacks quality software, for example. The problem is that software rarely comes first. In short, if enough people overlook Android's shortcomings, it'll eventually reach a tipping point.
    - tracker1 11y ago
      ChromeOS needs a good general mail client as well, there's been some work in this space, but from what I've seen it's still not there yet. I actually like GMail for general email... though account switching with more than 2-3 accounts is a pain.
  - amyjess 11y ago
    Can't speak for GP, but it's an embarassment that in 2015, Android still doesn't have built-in multi-window support. For crying out loud, even Apple beat Google to this, and they're typically behind when it comes to these things.
- BHSPitMonkey 11y ago
  If it's like other Google Android devices, you're free to install a custom bootloader and other (Linux) OSes. None seem to have as good touch UI support as Android or perhaps Ubuntu Touch, though.
msh 11y ago
Ars dont seem to like it: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/12/pixel-c-review-new-hardware-ignores-an-android-tablets-core-problem-software/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/12/pixel-c-review-new-ha...
- wyldfire 11y ago
  > On Android today, nothing is built from the ground up for tablets. shrug, the two most common applications for me are the terminal and chrome. If I had a Pixel C, I'd load a linux distro on it and be pretty content.
  - tdicola 11y ago
    What's the actual real world experience of using Linux on an Android tablet though? I've looked into it briefly and you can do things in a chroot environment which has some limitations, or run a more vanilla Linux distribution that very likely has none of the drivers, power optimizations, etc. needed to make a usable mobile machine. It just seems like a horrible experience but I'd love to be proven wrong.
    - th0br0 11y ago
      I've got a Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 (2014 Edition) and do quite like running a chrooted debian on it in combination with an Apple wireless keyboard. SSHing into the Debian system gives me a fairly powerful development environment. I've never tried running an Xserver on it though.
- Analemma_ 11y ago
  Dieter Bohn and Walt Mossberg at the Verge weren't impressed either. Consensus seems to be that the hardware is solid, but tablet Android is still a mess. Worse, even if Google fixes the problems in the OS, there are (still!) virtually no 3rd-party apps that support tablet Android natively; they're all just blown-up phone apps. Not only does that ruin the experience but-- like Microsoft and their stalled phone ambitions-- it's not a problem Google can fix no matter how good their developers are. All the software patches in the world can't fix the issue of apathetic 3rd-party devs.
pjmlp 11y ago
It looks quite nice, but personally I still think Surface still has the upper hand for (some) developers by offering a full blown OS where I am able to use Visual Studio and friends. The tools available for coding on the go on Android like AIDE aren't as compelling to me. Maybe that is something for an upcoming Android version.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- baldfat 11y ago
  This is a Tablet so it is vs Tablets not Surfaces (Which I personally consider a Surface a convertible) A tablet can't just mean has no keyboard to me.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- Zigurd 11y ago
  Not that I have anything against Surface, but, despite all the effort, it still isn't a touch-first device. And Windows isn't a touch-first OS. IPad will vastly outsell it, and despite Google doing a crap job marketing Android to businesses, so will Android tablets. That's because Windows tablets have never been touch-first, and a great finger-touch UX is what characterizes mobile devices.
  - dman 11y ago
    In Windows 10 tablet mode the Surface is a great tablet. Once I got the Surface pro 4 its completely displaced ipad usage for me.
  - djsumdog 11y ago
    It's really cause no one wrote any Windows apps, and a lot of the ones that were written have been removed because the respective companies don't want to maintain them. The Kindle reader for my Windows Mobile phone was sooooo buggy. If it had the apps to back it, Windows would have been okay as a touch OS. But that whole thing totally failed. Microsoft should have put the Courrier table into production. It was ready to go. That one move totally killed any chance at Microsoft making it into the tablet realm (and really set them back 2 ~ 3 years as a consumer tech company)
Keyframe 11y ago
Where is Google Store available outside of USA? What's the point of them selling anything if it's in limited markets for so long?
- agd 11y ago
  Available in the UK.
- mparlane 11y ago
  Available in New Zealand... took a while to get here though.
- _lce0 11y ago
  could anybody w/ access post images?
  - kuschku 11y ago
    Here: http://imgur.com/a/rpQqP http://imgur.com/a/rpQqP
protomyth 11y ago
That is a really bad keyboard layout. I really don't like the vertical return key or how they cut off the end keys.
- Huggernaut 11y ago
  Closer to British keyboard layout
  - protomyth 11y ago
    Yeah, also the original IBM PC which inspired a lot of complaints, replacements, and a change when the IBM PC AT arrived.
sanqui 11y ago
For anybody getting a "The Google Store isn't available here yet" message, you can append ?hl=us to the url to get past it: https://store.google.com/product/pixel_c?gl=us https://store.google.com/product/pixel_c?gl=us
vessenes 11y ago
So, this is a device that could easily have been delivered with ChromeOS, but instead is running Android. In fact, I don't think the Pixel line has ever had an Android device, am I correct? My gut is that rumors of ChromeOS's demise were not overblown, which is tough in my house -- all but one household computer runs on Chrome right now. We'll see what the future brings, but I don't have faith that Android devices scaled up to desktop size are going to bring the same quality of experience my family gets right now with their Chromebooks.
- mkozlows 11y ago
  The Pixel "line" has consisted of one device: The Chromebook Pixel, which has had two revisions, the most recent just earlier this year.
- jbob2000 11y ago
  Android is a hit with youth, and the less technical interface compared to the desktop is very welcome to older generations and those who are less technically saavy. Believe it or not, there are many people out there who still struggle with a mouse. Though ChromeOS supports touch, the apps they run generally are built around a mouse, whereas Android apps are ALWAYS built around touch.
  - digi_owl 11y ago
    Also note that the 6.0.1 update for Android introduced a slightly different tablet UI again. Since 4.3-4.4, tablets have sported a bottom bar with 3 buttons centered. Now two of them (back and home) are found in the bottom left corner, while the "switcher" button has landed in the bottom right. While this seem to be nice when holding a tablet with both hands, it also works well with "Fitts' law" as corners are easy to hit with a mouse.
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > So, this is a device that could easily have been delivered with ChromeOS, but instead is running Android. In fact, I don't think the Pixel line has ever had an Android device, am I correct? OTOH, Google has not ever released a device that was intended to operate without a keyboard and pointing device as a main interaction mode with ChromeOS. One of those "not ever before" things was going to have to fail with with a Pixel tablet. Honestly, I'm entirely unclear as to what "Pixel" as a brand is now (it used to be a brand-modifier in the Chromebook line), but branding without clear semantics is probably better than putting an OS that is less proven in a touch-first role on a tablet.
r00fus 11y ago
Hmm - no SD port, and single USB-C and only comes in 32 or 64GB... I assume Google isn't intending for you to be offline with this device for extended periods.
- Zigurd 11y ago
  You can sync alot of Drive docs even with 16GB
- Numberwang 11y ago
  Well you really should not be surprised about Google pushing for online all the time, app store, cloud services. It's the same business model as them, Apple, Microsoft and Amazon all set their sights on a few years ago.
- vectorjohn 11y ago
  How does that follow? I mean, no they don't, but there's no reason you can't. You (just) have to use a USB hub of some kind. Edit: oops, I didn't notice it was Android. I don't know if Android can read a USB drive, so that alters my comment.
ninjakeyboard 11y ago
If you're considering such a thing, remember our friend Benson Tested many USB C Cables on Amazon for you too. http://www.computerworld.com/article/3002159/computer-hardware/usb-c-benson-leung-laughingman-google-amazon-itbwcw.html http://www.computerworld.com/article/3002159/computer-hardwa...
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
gkya 11y ago
Would I be able to put a linux distro on it (I know that Android is linux, but...)?
- criddell 11y ago
  What's a good touch-first window manager? I know Unity was exploring touch UIs, is there anything better?
  - gkya 11y ago
    Gnome was exploring touch too. For my use case, though, a window manager is superfluous, as I'd use this machine as my portable emacs. At 150 bucks it's way cheaper than any other option. All I need is Emacs and Firefox anyway.
    - criddell 11y ago
      Which $150 machine are you talking about? If all you want is a portable emacs, why not just get a bluetooth keyboard and use your phone or buy one of those $50 Kindle tablets?
      - gkya 11y ago
        Oh I've looked at sth else's price on the page, sorry :)
rocky1138 11y ago
Who, exactly, is this device for?
- tdicola 11y ago
  Google employees (although I have to imagine even they would be very frustrated with an Android tablet right now).
Fastidious 11y ago
"Run powerful apps and the latest games. Pixel C has an NVIDIA X1 processor and loads of graphics horsepower. Under the hood, you’ll also find over 10 hours of battery life to keep you going strong." How much graphics horsepower does ChromeOS needs? On the 10 hours of battery life, I would have expected more for a, more or less, one application OS. Edit: Oh, did not know it was Android. Thanks!
- abraham 11y ago
  It's running Android.
- digi_owl 11y ago
  This is Android, not ChromeOS. Its just that unlike the Nexus series, the Pixel series of devices are designed by Google rather than a third party.
mmanfrin 11y ago
This post appears to have been nuked[1] -- any idea why? [1] http://hnrankings.info/10698432/ http://hnrankings.info/10698432/
- jakebasile 11y ago
  I noticed this as well. I can't see any reason for it - plenty of new gadget announcements stick around for a while on the front page.
throwaway000002 11y ago
Oh dear... the Nexus Q reborn in tablet form as the Pixel C. From the moment they mentioned it was Android a few months ago [1] I had my doubts about the "vision" driving this product, and now after reading what Arstechnica and the Verge have to say I feel genuinely bad for the engineers who worked on this. It looks like a lot of love was expended, and then maybe schedules pushed out whatever the heck this half baked thing is. Pixel C, I really wanted to like you... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10298410 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10298410
ojiikun 11y ago
A premium 10" Android slate sounds nice enough, especially with multi-window on the way, but that keyboard breaks the deal. No pipe key or escape? Good luck doing any serious programming. Also, if running a lightweight OS, I would really expect 2-day battery life for the big price.

Pixel C

68 points by pdknsk 11y ago

yami 11y ago

I looked interesting until I read it runs Android...

vox_mollis 11y ago
Not surprising. They rolled ChromeOS into the Android group.
melling 11y ago
What's wrong with Android? I mainly use iOS these days but I'm still holding out hope that Android becomes a real option on the "desktop".
- notacoward 11y ago
  Lack of software. Or at least lack of high-quality software for getting real work done. I had an Android tablet for a while. It was nicely portable, had good battery life, could do a lot of things well, but I just couldn't find any apps I liked for two things I do often: ssh and creating presentations. One ssh app could do tunnels, but got all confused if I tried to open multiple terminal sessions. Another handled multiple sessions OK, but couldn't do tunnels. Then the two would interfere with one another if I tried to run both simultaneously. For presentations, many couldn't do something as basic as keep track of where my cursor was, and would add text at the wrong place. Others at least worked, but couldn't do anything more complex than a bullet list. A real email app would have been nice, but I had to use both home and work webmail (which are very different) instead. From what I can tell, all of this has only gotten a tiny bit better in the last couple of years. It would be great if there were more Android developers coming from the desktop space instead of the phone space, producing more desktop-like apps, but that doesn't seem to be the case. As long as that continues to be the case, using Android on one's primary machine will continue to be frustrating. ChromeOS, on the other hand, seems to be in better shape. I'm seriously debating with myself about whether to get a regular Pixel (not Pixel C) as my next main computer.
  - melling 11y ago
    Yes, obviously it's a chicken and egg problem. Once they sell 100,000,000 "desktop" devices that'll change. The reason Microsoft Windows destroyed everyone else was because you couldn't get quality software for most other computers. Windows Phone can't gain traction because it lacks quality software, for example. The problem is that software rarely comes first. In short, if enough people overlook Android's shortcomings, it'll eventually reach a tipping point.
  - tracker1 11y ago
    ChromeOS needs a good general mail client as well, there's been some work in this space, but from what I've seen it's still not there yet. I actually like GMail for general email... though account switching with more than 2-3 accounts is a pain.
- amyjess 11y ago
  Can't speak for GP, but it's an embarassment that in 2015, Android still doesn't have built-in multi-window support. For crying out loud, even Apple beat Google to this, and they're typically behind when it comes to these things.
BHSPitMonkey 11y ago
If it's like other Google Android devices, you're free to install a custom bootloader and other (Linux) OSes. None seem to have as good touch UI support as Android or perhaps Ubuntu Touch, though.

msh 11y ago

Ars dont seem to like it: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/12/pixel-c-review-new-hardware-ignores-an-android-tablets-core-problem-software/ http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/12/pixel-c-review-new-ha...

wyldfire 11y ago
> On Android today, nothing is built from the ground up for tablets. shrug, the two most common applications for me are the terminal and chrome. If I had a Pixel C, I'd load a linux distro on it and be pretty content.
- tdicola 11y ago
  What's the actual real world experience of using Linux on an Android tablet though? I've looked into it briefly and you can do things in a chroot environment which has some limitations, or run a more vanilla Linux distribution that very likely has none of the drivers, power optimizations, etc. needed to make a usable mobile machine. It just seems like a horrible experience but I'd love to be proven wrong.
  - th0br0 11y ago
    I've got a Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 (2014 Edition) and do quite like running a chrooted debian on it in combination with an Apple wireless keyboard. SSHing into the Debian system gives me a fairly powerful development environment. I've never tried running an Xserver on it though.
Analemma_ 11y ago
Dieter Bohn and Walt Mossberg at the Verge weren't impressed either. Consensus seems to be that the hardware is solid, but tablet Android is still a mess. Worse, even if Google fixes the problems in the OS, there are (still!) virtually no 3rd-party apps that support tablet Android natively; they're all just blown-up phone apps. Not only does that ruin the experience but-- like Microsoft and their stalled phone ambitions-- it's not a problem Google can fix no matter how good their developers are. All the software patches in the world can't fix the issue of apathetic 3rd-party devs.

pjmlp 11y ago

It looks quite nice, but personally I still think Surface still has the upper hand for (some) developers by offering a full blown OS where I am able to use Visual Studio and friends. The tools available for coding on the go on Android like AIDE aren't as compelling to me. Maybe that is something for an upcoming Android version.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
baldfat 11y ago
This is a Tablet so it is vs Tablets not Surfaces (Which I personally consider a Surface a convertible) A tablet can't just mean has no keyboard to me.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
Zigurd 11y ago
Not that I have anything against Surface, but, despite all the effort, it still isn't a touch-first device. And Windows isn't a touch-first OS. IPad will vastly outsell it, and despite Google doing a crap job marketing Android to businesses, so will Android tablets. That's because Windows tablets have never been touch-first, and a great finger-touch UX is what characterizes mobile devices.
- dman 11y ago
  In Windows 10 tablet mode the Surface is a great tablet. Once I got the Surface pro 4 its completely displaced ipad usage for me.
- djsumdog 11y ago
  It's really cause no one wrote any Windows apps, and a lot of the ones that were written have been removed because the respective companies don't want to maintain them. The Kindle reader for my Windows Mobile phone was sooooo buggy. If it had the apps to back it, Windows would have been okay as a touch OS. But that whole thing totally failed. Microsoft should have put the Courrier table into production. It was ready to go. That one move totally killed any chance at Microsoft making it into the tablet realm (and really set them back 2 ~ 3 years as a consumer tech company)

Keyframe 11y ago

Where is Google Store available outside of USA? What's the point of them selling anything if it's in limited markets for so long?

agd 11y ago
Available in the UK.
mparlane 11y ago
Available in New Zealand... took a while to get here though.
_lce0 11y ago
could anybody w/ access post images?
- kuschku 11y ago
  Here: http://imgur.com/a/rpQqP http://imgur.com/a/rpQqP

protomyth 11y ago

That is a really bad keyboard layout. I really don't like the vertical return key or how they cut off the end keys.

Huggernaut 11y ago
Closer to British keyboard layout
- protomyth 11y ago
  Yeah, also the original IBM PC which inspired a lot of complaints, replacements, and a change when the IBM PC AT arrived.

sanqui 11y ago

For anybody getting a "The Google Store isn't available here yet" message, you can append ?hl=us to the url to get past it: https://store.google.com/product/pixel_c?gl=us https://store.google.com/product/pixel_c?gl=us

vessenes 11y ago

So, this is a device that could easily have been delivered with ChromeOS, but instead is running Android. In fact, I don't think the Pixel line has ever had an Android device, am I correct? My gut is that rumors of ChromeOS's demise were not overblown, which is tough in my house -- all but one household computer runs on Chrome right now. We'll see what the future brings, but I don't have faith that Android devices scaled up to desktop size are going to bring the same quality of experience my family gets right now with their Chromebooks.

mkozlows 11y ago
The Pixel "line" has consisted of one device: The Chromebook Pixel, which has had two revisions, the most recent just earlier this year.
jbob2000 11y ago
Android is a hit with youth, and the less technical interface compared to the desktop is very welcome to older generations and those who are less technically saavy. Believe it or not, there are many people out there who still struggle with a mouse. Though ChromeOS supports touch, the apps they run generally are built around a mouse, whereas Android apps are ALWAYS built around touch.
- digi_owl 11y ago
  Also note that the 6.0.1 update for Android introduced a slightly different tablet UI again. Since 4.3-4.4, tablets have sported a bottom bar with 3 buttons centered. Now two of them (back and home) are found in the bottom left corner, while the "switcher" button has landed in the bottom right. While this seem to be nice when holding a tablet with both hands, it also works well with "Fitts' law" as corners are easy to hit with a mouse.
dragonwriter 11y ago
> So, this is a device that could easily have been delivered with ChromeOS, but instead is running Android. In fact, I don't think the Pixel line has ever had an Android device, am I correct? OTOH, Google has not ever released a device that was intended to operate without a keyboard and pointing device as a main interaction mode with ChromeOS. One of those "not ever before" things was going to have to fail with with a Pixel tablet. Honestly, I'm entirely unclear as to what "Pixel" as a brand is now (it used to be a brand-modifier in the Chromebook line), but branding without clear semantics is probably better than putting an OS that is less proven in a touch-first role on a tablet.

r00fus 11y ago

Hmm - no SD port, and single USB-C and only comes in 32 or 64GB... I assume Google isn't intending for you to be offline with this device for extended periods.

Zigurd 11y ago
You can sync alot of Drive docs even with 16GB
Numberwang 11y ago
Well you really should not be surprised about Google pushing for online all the time, app store, cloud services. It's the same business model as them, Apple, Microsoft and Amazon all set their sights on a few years ago.
vectorjohn 11y ago
How does that follow? I mean, no they don't, but there's no reason you can't. You (just) have to use a USB hub of some kind. Edit: oops, I didn't notice it was Android. I don't know if Android can read a USB drive, so that alters my comment.

ninjakeyboard 11y ago

If you're considering such a thing, remember our friend Benson Tested many USB C Cables on Amazon for you too. http://www.computerworld.com/article/3002159/computer-hardware/usb-c-benson-leung-laughingman-google-amazon-itbwcw.html http://www.computerworld.com/article/3002159/computer-hardwa...

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

gkya 11y ago

Would I be able to put a linux distro on it (I know that Android is linux, but...)?

criddell 11y ago
What's a good touch-first window manager? I know Unity was exploring touch UIs, is there anything better?
- gkya 11y ago
  Gnome was exploring touch too. For my use case, though, a window manager is superfluous, as I'd use this machine as my portable emacs. At 150 bucks it's way cheaper than any other option. All I need is Emacs and Firefox anyway.
  - criddell 11y ago
    Which $150 machine are you talking about? If all you want is a portable emacs, why not just get a bluetooth keyboard and use your phone or buy one of those $50 Kindle tablets?
    - gkya 11y ago
      Oh I've looked at sth else's price on the page, sorry :)

rocky1138 11y ago

Who, exactly, is this device for?

tdicola 11y ago
Google employees (although I have to imagine even they would be very frustrated with an Android tablet right now).

Fastidious 11y ago

"Run powerful apps and the latest games. Pixel C has an NVIDIA X1 processor and loads of graphics horsepower. Under the hood, you’ll also find over 10 hours of battery life to keep you going strong." How much graphics horsepower does ChromeOS needs? On the 10 hours of battery life, I would have expected more for a, more or less, one application OS. Edit: Oh, did not know it was Android. Thanks!

abraham 11y ago
It's running Android.
digi_owl 11y ago
This is Android, not ChromeOS. Its just that unlike the Nexus series, the Pixel series of devices are designed by Google rather than a third party.

mmanfrin 11y ago

This post appears to have been nuked[1] -- any idea why? [1] http://hnrankings.info/10698432/ http://hnrankings.info/10698432/

jakebasile 11y ago
I noticed this as well. I can't see any reason for it - plenty of new gadget announcements stick around for a while on the front page.

throwaway000002 11y ago

Oh dear... the Nexus Q reborn in tablet form as the Pixel C. From the moment they mentioned it was Android a few months ago [1] I had my doubts about the "vision" driving this product, and now after reading what Arstechnica and the Verge have to say I feel genuinely bad for the engineers who worked on this. It looks like a lot of love was expended, and then maybe schedules pushed out whatever the heck this half baked thing is. Pixel C, I really wanted to like you... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10298410 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10298410

ojiikun 11y ago

A premium 10" Android slate sounds nice enough, especially with multi-window on the way, but that keyboard breaks the deal. No pipe key or escape? Good luck doing any serious programming. Also, if running a lightweight OS, I would really expect 2-day battery life for the big price.