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seanisom
searching Neon…
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seanisom
2y ago
This is pretty cool - great to see what a small codebase can do with raw WebGL. Have you looked at WebGPU at all?
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seanisom
2y ago
Working fine for me on Firefox - their WebGL support tends to be good enough, although there are plenty of other resource issues.
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seanisom
2y ago
This is awesome! The dev loop for web apps is kind of broken - really cool that you can keep this running in a browser.
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seanisom
2y ago
Yes! You should be able to get nearly native performance for that sort of pipeline out of a WebGL backend.
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seanisom
2y ago
Can you utilize streaming compilation of the Wasm modules? This significantly improved load times in Photoshop Web.
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seanisom
2y ago
GPU processes are separated due to driver instability and unsafe code, so this means more than a GPU process crash, or a content process crash (tab crashed), something in the orchestration layer or main process crashed. There are probably m
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seanisom
2y ago
Just wander itself is almost working in a browser - kind of hacked together right now, but will be pushed to the open-source soon. The same Wasm payload should be able to run in the browser or through wasmtime. For the rive-renderer /
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seanisom
2y ago
Anybody remember COM? Yes, this is certainly not a new problem.
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seanisom
2y ago
Keeping it high level - No, the goal is not to create a C++ API to give you GPU functions. The C++ API for wander is used to embed the WebAssembly module of graphics code into the application. The API footprint is very small - load a file,
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seanisom
2y ago
Great suggestion, appreciate it. wgpu is coming!
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seanisom
2y ago
More of a comment on how apps are being built in the future - web-first is becoming the default. I already see web even taking over in things like embedded UIs where native toolkits like QT historically were popular.
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seanisom
2y ago
Appreciate it. It's coming! I want to get the compiler working and generally available and everything working seamlessly for Web first. Stay tuned!
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seanisom
2y ago
Interesting! Had never heard of it before, will check it out. The point of Haxe seems to be as a meta-compiler to generate code for a bunch of different languages/compilers? The same spirit of the Wasm dev experience but without the ru
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seanisom
2y ago
That's exactly it. With renderlet, the goal is to compile the "frontend" code that's driving the rendering pipeline to WebAssembly, and provide a runtime that embeds that in any app, with the host app providing any confi
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seanisom
2y ago
This is awesome! I'm not fluent with Flutter/Dart but would like to dig in to how the build / Wasm packaging works. The state of shared memory for Wasm is not great, although raw SharedArrayBuffers work ok in a browser for ru
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seanisom
2y ago
Not much yet! :) The renderlet is a bundle of WebAssembly code that handles data flow for graphics objects. Input is just function parameters, output writes serialized data to a specific place in Wasm linear memory. With the Wasm Component
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seanisom
2y ago
I haven't worked with stereo setups with this codebase yet, but as it is just wrapping underlying platform-specific GPU APIs, it should be a similar performance profile. On average, running the Wasm guest code is about 80% of the speed
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seanisom
2y ago
Lots of interesting points in there, and working on Bevy I'm sure you have much more extensive WebGPU expertise than me. I agree that the feature set around WebGPU is constrained and becoming outdated tech compared to native platforms.
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seanisom
2y ago
> Currently it is the low level, cross platform layer that is the most complex and the biggest hurdle towards making a game engine viable I couldn't agree more. My goal is not to simply build "a better game engine", but to
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seanisom
2y ago
Got it, thanks. Not what I was expecting. To me, this reads like the intersection of "Web Components as Wasm" and "The Browser as an OS" - almost something analogous to WASI as browser APIs that are delivered via Wasm AB
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seanisom
2y ago
Thanks - that link does not appear to be open access, anyways I don't think I've seen it. I'm familiar with Flutter at a high-level (Kevin Moore gave a great talk on it at Wasm I/O), and I think other than requiring user
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seanisom
2y ago
I think Godot is the closest thing to this today, and I agree, would love to work with them! Particularly on the Wasm and packaging side of things.
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seanisom
2y ago
This right here. The web is the OS of the future - the standards are getting there, the tools are just starting to catch up.
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seanisom
2y ago
I'm probably the worst person to ask for advice about applying to YC - it just kind of happened. I was sad when UE4 sunset HTML5 support, and glad to see a spiritual successor! There are a lot of parallels to other large in-browser app
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seanisom
2y ago
This. I think it used to be a productivity power tool that they since incorporated into the core editor.
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seanisom
2y ago
Interested as well - I think you've built an incredibly productive editor with Rive - a spiritual successor to Flash!
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seanisom
2y ago
Hey Keavon, I'm also a big fan, been lurking in your Discord for years! The design of the render tree of Wasm nodes certainly took inspiration from Graphite's node system.
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seanisom
2y ago
Great questions! The host app owns the event loop. I don't foresee that changing even once we re-architect around WebGPU (allowing the Wasm guest to control shaders), as the host app is responsible for "driving" the render tr
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seanisom
2y ago
Big fan of Godot! I think it has done wonders to make graphics more accessible. From an Adobe perspective - it doesn't. If you go to photoshop.adobe.com in Safari, you will see the answer. Things can work in a single-threaded build, bu
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seanisom
2y ago
Thanks! Lottie should be straightforward. SWF is a much higher bar, but would be useful.
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