5 ms·

This assumes your 50-100% estimate is correct. A figure which is the result of your bias that people are challenging.

adventured 11y ago
So your theory is that men are not almost always substantially stronger than women pound for pound? It's not a bias, it's extremely well understood human physiology. Men and women are in fact very different in the strength department, men are vastly stronger.
- michaelchisari 11y ago
  The problem with saying "men are stronger than women" is that we're not dealing with men and women, we're dealing with a specific woman, and a potential specific man. This is not about the aggregate, it's about the specific. I would put Rhonda's ground game up against plenty of bantamweight men. Striking is a different story, of course, but god help any fighter that hesitates and lets her attach on to anything. Watch her spar with Uriah Hall, and how easily she takes down an extremely athletic man with a 50 pound advantage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yYZfeDm_Ig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yYZfeDm_Ig I don't think this fight would ever happen, but dismissing Rhonda Rouseys potential with biological hand-waving is an insult to everything she's accomplished. And I'm saying this as someone who doesn't even particularly like her.
  - mod 11y ago
    In other cases, when talking about specific individuals--in particular, Olympic weightlifting record-holders--the gender difference is still very obvious.
    - michaelchisari 11y ago
      MMA is extremely multi-faceted compared to weightlifting. There's a reason the Gracies dominated the sport for so long, and it had nothing to do with any kind of extraordinary upper body strength.
baddox 11y ago
The bias that men tend to be physically stronger than women, pound for pound? The 50-100% estimate is probably an exaggeration, but from my quick glance at competitive weightlifting results, 25% seems well-supported.
- adventured 11y ago
  The 50% - 100% is based on top male fighters at the same weight levels. They're going to be far stronger than her. A strong male athlete can bench press 150%-175%+ his body weight. You think Rousey can do 6 x 240 pounds? Not a chance.
  - baddox 11y ago
    According to the Wikipedia article of Olympic weightlifting world records, the 69kg men's record total lift is 359kg, while for women that record is 286kg. That's about a 25% difference. Of course, world records might not be the best thing to look at, since the variance among the genders is probably different (although this discussion is about top MMA fighters, so it's fairly appropriate). Also, you can probably find very different numbers by looking at different weight classes and events.
  - barsonme 11y ago
    Just a side note, "175%+" is actually a bit of an underestimate. As an example, I'm 175# and can bench press 285# (3 whites) but I'm not a "strong male athlete" by any means. Athletes who train for strength (linemen, powerlifters like GZCL) are putting up 2x their body weight or more, and that's just for bench press alone which is usually the lightest event. Deadlifts and squats can hit 4x body weight which is just insane.
  - IkmoIkmo 11y ago
    http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/BenchStandards.html http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/BenchStandards.htm... Very commonly referenced strength standards in lifting communities for most people between absolute novice and absolute world class.
petegrif 11y ago
This shouldn't really be the discussion. It's kind of a side show. She is an extremely accomplished fighter and deserves to be respected as such. But... He's absolutely right. She wouldn't stand a chance against any decently trained MMA artist. Men are indeed enormously stronger and strength does matter in MMA.
bluecalm 11y ago
Let's be realistic here. Men are just way stronger and better fighters. It's the same story in other sports. For example Serena Williams: the best tennis player in WTA history by huge distance and she would be smoked by any men who is on ATP list even if overweight and smoking between games. It's not an insult, it's just biology.

So your theory is that men are not almost always substantially stronger than women pound for pound? It's not a bias, it's extremely well understood human physiology. Men and women are in fact very different in the strength department, men are vastly stronger.

michaelchisari 11y ago
The problem with saying "men are stronger than women" is that we're not dealing with men and women, we're dealing with a specific woman, and a potential specific man. This is not about the aggregate, it's about the specific. I would put Rhonda's ground game up against plenty of bantamweight men. Striking is a different story, of course, but god help any fighter that hesitates and lets her attach on to anything. Watch her spar with Uriah Hall, and how easily she takes down an extremely athletic man with a 50 pound advantage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yYZfeDm_Ig https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yYZfeDm_Ig I don't think this fight would ever happen, but dismissing Rhonda Rouseys potential with biological hand-waving is an insult to everything she's accomplished. And I'm saying this as someone who doesn't even particularly like her.
- mod 11y ago
  In other cases, when talking about specific individuals--in particular, Olympic weightlifting record-holders--the gender difference is still very obvious.
  - michaelchisari 11y ago
    MMA is extremely multi-faceted compared to weightlifting. There's a reason the Gracies dominated the sport for so long, and it had nothing to do with any kind of extraordinary upper body strength.

baddox 11y ago

The bias that men tend to be physically stronger than women, pound for pound? The 50-100% estimate is probably an exaggeration, but from my quick glance at competitive weightlifting results, 25% seems well-supported.

adventured 11y ago
The 50% - 100% is based on top male fighters at the same weight levels. They're going to be far stronger than her. A strong male athlete can bench press 150%-175%+ his body weight. You think Rousey can do 6 x 240 pounds? Not a chance.
- baddox 11y ago
  According to the Wikipedia article of Olympic weightlifting world records, the 69kg men's record total lift is 359kg, while for women that record is 286kg. That's about a 25% difference. Of course, world records might not be the best thing to look at, since the variance among the genders is probably different (although this discussion is about top MMA fighters, so it's fairly appropriate). Also, you can probably find very different numbers by looking at different weight classes and events.
- barsonme 11y ago
  Just a side note, "175%+" is actually a bit of an underestimate. As an example, I'm 175# and can bench press 285# (3 whites) but I'm not a "strong male athlete" by any means. Athletes who train for strength (linemen, powerlifters like GZCL) are putting up 2x their body weight or more, and that's just for bench press alone which is usually the lightest event. Deadlifts and squats can hit 4x body weight which is just insane.
- IkmoIkmo 11y ago
  http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/BenchStandards.html http://www.exrx.net/Testing/WeightLifting/BenchStandards.htm... Very commonly referenced strength standards in lifting communities for most people between absolute novice and absolute world class.

petegrif 11y ago

This shouldn't really be the discussion. It's kind of a side show. She is an extremely accomplished fighter and deserves to be respected as such. But... He's absolutely right. She wouldn't stand a chance against any decently trained MMA artist. Men are indeed enormously stronger and strength does matter in MMA.

bluecalm 11y ago

Let's be realistic here. Men are just way stronger and better fighters. It's the same story in other sports. For example Serena Williams: the best tennis player in WTA history by huge distance and she would be smoked by any men who is on ATP list even if overweight and smoking between games. It's not an insult, it's just biology.