7 ms·

One interesting thing is that Amazon is almost approaching Walmart's bad reputation in terribleness for employees. (Maybe not software devs, but perhaps warehou

by krstck 11y ago

One interesting thing is that Amazon is almost approaching Walmart's bad reputation in terribleness for employees. (Maybe not software devs, but perhaps warehouse contractors.) Is this kind of ruthlessness essential for such a huge company to be so profitable?

chambo622 11y ago
I remember reading about Amazon making warehouse employees sign a non-compete agreement - a stipulation that was rather quickly reversed after The Verge and other publications exposed it. What other examples of terribleness have you read about?
- krstck 11y ago
  There are articles on how horrible the warehouse conditions are. (For example, http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/mac-mcclelland-free-online-shipping-warehouses-labor http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/mac-mcclelland-f...). Note that I'm not trying to condone that perception, just merely observing that it exists in tandem with Walmart's (whose problems are well-known).
  - Vexs 11y ago
    This came up on reddit a while ago; the general tone of the conversation I got was that it really depends on which warehouse you're working at, some had horrible managers and others had really good working experiences. It's still strange that its like that though.
xd1936 11y ago
The crazy thing is, they're not even profitable right now.
- serge2k 11y ago
  They reported a quarterly profit just yesterday.
wmeredith 11y ago
Well, can you name any companies operating on this scale that lack "ruthlessness"?
Zigurd 11y ago
Friends of mine have been software developers at Amazon. They are well-paid, but evidently that did not make up for other aspects of working there. Apparently Amazon can be a great company without being a great place to work, at least relative to technology companies.
oh_sigh 11y ago
Amazon doesn't treat software devs very nicely either. I mean, it's certainly better than warehouse employees, but devs are treated as highly disposable cogs.
port98 11y ago
It's not so great for software devs, actually. 1) Zero paternal leave. This may lead to subconscious hiring bias for men b/c you know they can't take paid leave. I'm surprised the S-team permits this, but I think they're all male anyway. 2) No free lunch ever. Facebook and Google both have them. Microsoft has free snacks I think. Several Seattle companies have catering on Friday. The Amazon Silicon Valley office has them only because there would be a revolt if they didn't. (Oh sorry, there's rumor of free ramen noodles on some floor in Blackfoot maybe) 3) On-call for all devs. I think reddit had a thread series last year showing off what interns got at Microsoft, Google, etc. At Amazon, interns get to keep their backpack when they leave.
- ryanmonroe 11y ago
  Sure, maybe those facts imply that developers at Amazon have it worse than developers elsewhere, but I wouldn't exactly characterize any of them as Amazon being "terrible" to employees.
- CHY872 11y ago
  I don't think that's fair. Free lunch isn't 'free', it's just part of your compensation package. At least some SV companies don't have it - I'm pretty sure Apple doesn't. If someone asked you if you'd prefer an additional $500 per month or free meals, what would you say? I imagine it'd be at least a toss-up. On-call and paternal leave aren't great, but again, it's a factor into a job decision. I guess my tacit assumption is that most people who get dev job offers from Amazon also get job offers from other places (or could if they so chose) because the job market for CS is so good. So if they take the Amazon job, they must think that the lack of niceties is outweighed by either the pay or the work they'll do. This probably won't be the case for their warehouse workers, who might in many cases have a choice between Amazon and unemployed.
  - sitkack 11y ago
    The food doesn't come out of the pay. Jesus, they don't bargain during hiring by saying we have free food...
princetontiger 11y ago
Some subs of Amazon have free lunch.

by krstck 11y ago

chambo622 11y ago

I remember reading about Amazon making warehouse employees sign a non-compete agreement - a stipulation that was rather quickly reversed after The Verge and other publications exposed it. What other examples of terribleness have you read about?

krstck 11y ago
There are articles on how horrible the warehouse conditions are. (For example, http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/mac-mcclelland-free-online-shipping-warehouses-labor http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/mac-mcclelland-f...). Note that I'm not trying to condone that perception, just merely observing that it exists in tandem with Walmart's (whose problems are well-known).
- Vexs 11y ago
  This came up on reddit a while ago; the general tone of the conversation I got was that it really depends on which warehouse you're working at, some had horrible managers and others had really good working experiences. It's still strange that its like that though.

xd1936 11y ago

The crazy thing is, they're not even profitable right now.

serge2k 11y ago
They reported a quarterly profit just yesterday.

wmeredith 11y ago

Well, can you name any companies operating on this scale that lack "ruthlessness"?

Zigurd 11y ago

Friends of mine have been software developers at Amazon. They are well-paid, but evidently that did not make up for other aspects of working there. Apparently Amazon can be a great company without being a great place to work, at least relative to technology companies.

oh_sigh 11y ago

Amazon doesn't treat software devs very nicely either. I mean, it's certainly better than warehouse employees, but devs are treated as highly disposable cogs.

port98 11y ago

It's not so great for software devs, actually. 1) Zero paternal leave. This may lead to subconscious hiring bias for men b/c you know they can't take paid leave. I'm surprised the S-team permits this, but I think they're all male anyway. 2) No free lunch ever. Facebook and Google both have them. Microsoft has free snacks I think. Several Seattle companies have catering on Friday. The Amazon Silicon Valley office has them only because there would be a revolt if they didn't. (Oh sorry, there's rumor of free ramen noodles on some floor in Blackfoot maybe) 3) On-call for all devs. I think reddit had a thread series last year showing off what interns got at Microsoft, Google, etc. At Amazon, interns get to keep their backpack when they leave.

ryanmonroe 11y ago
Sure, maybe those facts imply that developers at Amazon have it worse than developers elsewhere, but I wouldn't exactly characterize any of them as Amazon being "terrible" to employees.
CHY872 11y ago
I don't think that's fair. Free lunch isn't 'free', it's just part of your compensation package. At least some SV companies don't have it - I'm pretty sure Apple doesn't. If someone asked you if you'd prefer an additional $500 per month or free meals, what would you say? I imagine it'd be at least a toss-up. On-call and paternal leave aren't great, but again, it's a factor into a job decision. I guess my tacit assumption is that most people who get dev job offers from Amazon also get job offers from other places (or could if they so chose) because the job market for CS is so good. So if they take the Amazon job, they must think that the lack of niceties is outweighed by either the pay or the work they'll do. This probably won't be the case for their warehouse workers, who might in many cases have a choice between Amazon and unemployed.
- sitkack 11y ago
  The food doesn't come out of the pay. Jesus, they don't bargain during hiring by saying we have free food...

princetontiger 11y ago

Some subs of Amazon have free lunch.