7 ms·

Rory Marinich: Make Great Shit

14 points by alilja 17y ago

cfinke 17y ago
If you haven't read it, I'll save you the time: "Shit shit shit shit shit shit shit." (There is as much value in that one sentence as there is in this guy's entire rambling blog post.)
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- unalone 17y ago
  If you're going to criticize what I write, please criticize it rather than just snarking.
  - cfinke 17y ago
    You used the word "shit" 105 times in one post. At that saturation point, the only takeaway I got was "This guy sure likes to say 'shit.'"
    - unalone 17y ago
      When I originally wrote the article, I was using the word stuff — but stuff is such a boring word. It's got a lag to it. Ditto other options, like things and work and product. Shit, on the other hand, is a very pointed, quick word. It serves perfectly as a placeholder for "anything else", which is what I'm really talking about. This isn't about writing good code, or good music, or making good music. It's about making anything. The technique is the same regardless of whether you're making a lesson plan or a DIY desk. I mean, it's not like I didn't know I was writing the word "shit". Usually I don't write any swears into my posts. This one, that one word was the point.
      - cfinke 17y ago
        I'm just letting you know that your point becomes shrouded by the repetition of a single word. If the entire point was that one word, then mission accomplished, because it's the only thing I'm going to remember about it.
        unalone 17y ago
        I get what you're saying. I'm disappointed if that's all you got out of it.
        jacquesm 17y ago
        I'm not much of a writer, but if I spot that I'm using the same word twice within two sentences of each other I'll try to find a suitable alternative. The reason for that is simple, this is not my first language and I find that if I'm not very careful I get caught up in my somewhat limited vocabulary. In dutch that problem would normally not hit me. If you write a piece like this and you have a point to make then it is a real pity that your choice of words gets in the way of getting the point across. There was this article a little while ago about 'shit my dad says', and you commented there that you thought it was excellent stuff. But it is the diametrical opposite of the way you write, he makes his point in one sentence, which may be coarse and rough around the edges, he may even use a swear word (or two), but it does not get in the way of the delivery. I swear I tried to read your piece, but after reading roughly a screenfull I simply gave up. That can't have been your intention (or maybe it was). The criticism here is too harsh I think, you probably have a valid point to make but if it got lost than that's a waste.
        unalone 17y ago
        Fair enough. I'm not enough of a prick to think that my opinion overrides everybody else's. I don't think I was going to write another super-swear piece, but now I certainly won't. Oh, well. It's one piece. I can handle people not liking it. (As an aside: I never suspected English wasn't your first language! That comes as a bit of a shock.)
  - krschultz 17y ago
    You deserve the criticism. You didn't "unintentionally" introduce the word many times into your essay. You thought it would be a good idea and banged the reader over the head with it. "Remind yourself always that your shit is relative. Find ways to expand your definition of shit as much as possible. That way, the first step you take in making your shit will alone surpass the completed shit of the inexperienced." You can't make that point without using the word "shit" three times? I'm sure it can be better in a dozen ways without ever using the word shit, but you overused "shit" again to keep your theme going. That is why the original poster is not being snarky. The post literally reads as shit shit shit shit shit, how many times can I say shit in one blog post. The point you are trying to make is completely lost in that. edit: When you start blaming the reader for comprehension problems, you have failed as communicating. Although I'll keep in mind that you just wrote "it it" and "people're" right after talking about "flows naturally".
    - unalone 17y ago
      What can I say? I must read differently than the people here. When I read it it flows naturally; this has been in circulation long enough that I see lots of other people're okay with the style also. Perhaps it's that I don't skim when I read: I actually digest the words being used. Read aloud, it really doesn't sound like the word is used too much; skimmed, it's all that stands out.
- davi 17y ago
  Let me offer a different summary: The greatest satisfaction to a hacker is to produce output that gives the hacker pleasure to look at, think about, and use. Achieving this satisfaction is an iterative hill climbing optimization. Each iteration depends on making something. By making lots of shit (there's that word), you get to see what output gives you satisfaction; and you feel some satisfaction, which gives you the energy to make more. Notice what you made that gives you pleasure, and how you made it. Repeat until you are a satisfied Hacker. (I agree that the word got so overused I couldn't parse the writing very well -- like if you say the word 'apple' 100 times, you start to forget what it means -- or like the way if you eliminate microsaccades, foveated objects start to disappear [1].) [1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16423702 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16423702
drawkbox 17y ago
That advice was some good shit, maybe great shit.
detcader 17y ago
Read: "Rory Marinich: Look How Alternative And Modern I Am, I Know Cuss Words"
- unalone 17y ago
  That's cute, coming from somebody so edgy he quotes Banksy in his profile.
  - detcader 17y ago
    But honestly, noticeable articles are noticeable for their noticeable ideas, not noticeable words. Noticeable words backfire, turning people off. Fair point about Banksy, though.
    - unalone 17y ago
      This wasn't a good Hacker News article. It wasn't written to be. I've actually got one in the works now that I was going to submit here this week; this was geared towards my usual reader constituency of artsier types. That comment here was the first time in a week and a half I've seen anybody comment on the word "shit", actually. When I wrote it I expected that might be a turn-off; I guess after it caught on in the blogosphere I got used to people treating it like it wasn't overdosing on the word.

14 points by alilja 17y ago

If you haven't read it, I'll save you the time: "Shit shit shit shit shit shit shit." (There is as much value in that one sentence as there is in this guy's entire rambling blog post.)

deleted 17y ago
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unalone 17y ago
If you're going to criticize what I write, please criticize it rather than just snarking.
- cfinke 17y ago
  You used the word "shit" 105 times in one post. At that saturation point, the only takeaway I got was "This guy sure likes to say 'shit.'"
  - unalone 17y ago
    When I originally wrote the article, I was using the word stuff — but stuff is such a boring word. It's got a lag to it. Ditto other options, like things and work and product. Shit, on the other hand, is a very pointed, quick word. It serves perfectly as a placeholder for "anything else", which is what I'm really talking about. This isn't about writing good code, or good music, or making good music. It's about making anything. The technique is the same regardless of whether you're making a lesson plan or a DIY desk. I mean, it's not like I didn't know I was writing the word "shit". Usually I don't write any swears into my posts. This one, that one word was the point.
    - cfinke 17y ago
      I'm just letting you know that your point becomes shrouded by the repetition of a single word. If the entire point was that one word, then mission accomplished, because it's the only thing I'm going to remember about it.
      - unalone 17y ago
        I get what you're saying. I'm disappointed if that's all you got out of it.
        jacquesm 17y ago
        I'm not much of a writer, but if I spot that I'm using the same word twice within two sentences of each other I'll try to find a suitable alternative. The reason for that is simple, this is not my first language and I find that if I'm not very careful I get caught up in my somewhat limited vocabulary. In dutch that problem would normally not hit me. If you write a piece like this and you have a point to make then it is a real pity that your choice of words gets in the way of getting the point across. There was this article a little while ago about 'shit my dad says', and you commented there that you thought it was excellent stuff. But it is the diametrical opposite of the way you write, he makes his point in one sentence, which may be coarse and rough around the edges, he may even use a swear word (or two), but it does not get in the way of the delivery. I swear I tried to read your piece, but after reading roughly a screenfull I simply gave up. That can't have been your intention (or maybe it was). The criticism here is too harsh I think, you probably have a valid point to make but if it got lost than that's a waste.
        unalone 17y ago
        Fair enough. I'm not enough of a prick to think that my opinion overrides everybody else's. I don't think I was going to write another super-swear piece, but now I certainly won't. Oh, well. It's one piece. I can handle people not liking it. (As an aside: I never suspected English wasn't your first language! That comes as a bit of a shock.)
- krschultz 17y ago
  You deserve the criticism. You didn't "unintentionally" introduce the word many times into your essay. You thought it would be a good idea and banged the reader over the head with it. "Remind yourself always that your shit is relative. Find ways to expand your definition of shit as much as possible. That way, the first step you take in making your shit will alone surpass the completed shit of the inexperienced." You can't make that point without using the word "shit" three times? I'm sure it can be better in a dozen ways without ever using the word shit, but you overused "shit" again to keep your theme going. That is why the original poster is not being snarky. The post literally reads as shit shit shit shit shit, how many times can I say shit in one blog post. The point you are trying to make is completely lost in that. edit: When you start blaming the reader for comprehension problems, you have failed as communicating. Although I'll keep in mind that you just wrote "it it" and "people're" right after talking about "flows naturally".
  - unalone 17y ago
    What can I say? I must read differently than the people here. When I read it it flows naturally; this has been in circulation long enough that I see lots of other people're okay with the style also. Perhaps it's that I don't skim when I read: I actually digest the words being used. Read aloud, it really doesn't sound like the word is used too much; skimmed, it's all that stands out.
davi 17y ago
Let me offer a different summary: The greatest satisfaction to a hacker is to produce output that gives the hacker pleasure to look at, think about, and use. Achieving this satisfaction is an iterative hill climbing optimization. Each iteration depends on making something. By making lots of shit (there's that word), you get to see what output gives you satisfaction; and you feel some satisfaction, which gives you the energy to make more. Notice what you made that gives you pleasure, and how you made it. Repeat until you are a satisfied Hacker. (I agree that the word got so overused I couldn't parse the writing very well -- like if you say the word 'apple' 100 times, you start to forget what it means -- or like the way if you eliminate microsaccades, foveated objects start to disappear [1].) [1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16423702 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16423702

drawkbox 17y ago

That advice was some good shit, maybe great shit.

detcader 17y ago

Read: "Rory Marinich: Look How Alternative And Modern I Am, I Know Cuss Words"

unalone 17y ago
That's cute, coming from somebody so edgy he quotes Banksy in his profile.
- detcader 17y ago
  But honestly, noticeable articles are noticeable for their noticeable ideas, not noticeable words. Noticeable words backfire, turning people off. Fair point about Banksy, though.
  - unalone 17y ago
    This wasn't a good Hacker News article. It wasn't written to be. I've actually got one in the works now that I was going to submit here this week; this was geared towards my usual reader constituency of artsier types. That comment here was the first time in a week and a half I've seen anybody comment on the word "shit", actually. When I wrote it I expected that might be a turn-off; I guess after it caught on in the blogosphere I got used to people treating it like it wasn't overdosing on the word.