6 ms·

Related visualization of how kid's range has shrunk over four generations: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2b/4e/b3/2b4eb36f91e4c82bf017188613ac9a63.j

by joliss 11y ago

Related visualization of how kid's range has shrunk over four generations: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2b/4e/b3/2b4eb36f91e4c82bf017188613ac9a63.jpg https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/2b/4e/b3/2b4eb36f9...

brohoolio 11y ago
Very interesting.
- brohoolio 11y ago
  I wonder how much of it has to do with automobile traffic.
  - DamnYuppie 11y ago
    Probably not much. Most of it, seems to me, to be related to unfounded fear that something bad is going to happen to the child.
    - revelation 11y ago
      Try walking those six miles to go fishing. I'd probably first have to spend 10 minutes to research suitable paths to even get there and not end up in the middle of a desert of cars.
patcheudor 11y ago
Yesterday I needed to run some errands and it hit me pretty hard how silly we've become. My seven year daughter didn't want to come with me and while I'm sure she's mature enough to stay at home by herself I went to Google to determine if I'd be viewed as a criminal or not in the eyes of my parenting peers or the state. It turned out that my local child protective services had a Q&A on their site stating that it's okay to leave a child home alone at age 11. I then went to my city and state statutes and couldn't find a single law which said it would be illegal. After a bit more research I found plenty of parents recommending that kids not only can, but should be left home alone if they are okay with it. This helps to build independence and self-esteem. I ended up leaving her at home alone for about an hour and not a single bad thing happened.
- jobu 11y ago
  No idea where it came from, but we've been told that up to one hour alone per grade level is a good rule of thumb.
  - falsestprophet 11y ago
    I heard that too from a uninformed internet commenter.
- bane 11y ago
  We used to have the notion of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latchkey_kid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latchkey_kid I grew up with both parents working long hours, and I was definitely a Latchkey kid. From the time I got home until right before dinner I was usually alone to do what I wanted. I think for a few years, when I was 6 or 7, my mother required I call her every hour as a check-in, but even that relaxed by the time I was 8 or 9. My only requirement was to be home by dark, regardless of the time of year and if parents were home. Curiously, my parents would also occasionally hire a babysitter, but I never quite understood why and what for. It was pretty random.
- DanBC 11y ago
  Homes are pretty dangerous and sometimes children do stupid things. While child protective services shouldn't be called[1] for someone leaving a child for a short time CPS needs to have clear and easy to communicate guidelines. They might want to say "11 and up; unless they're not stupid and the home is safe and you're not gone too long" but, well, the target audience needs clearer information. [1] it'd be good if we had a "report early, report often" culture and the funding to go with it. A single report of a mild incident means nothing happens; several reports of mild incidents from different agencies means a freindly chat to see if help is needed or wanted.
  - abfan1127 11y ago
    no they don't. we don't need them telling us when our children are responsible enough for particular tasks. When our first reaction is "is this illegal" we've gone too far. When bad laws influence good parents, its wrong and needs to be repealed immediately.
bane 11y ago
It's truly ridiculous sometimes. My neighborhood has half a dozen schools in it but it's only about a mile in any direction. It has extensive walking paths, sidewalks, crosswalks, lights, etc. Any child is within an easy 10-15 minute walk to school, and there wouldn't need to be more than 2 or 3 crossing guards to cover all the major roads and intersections. But this would be too easy, instead all the children line up at bus stops throughout the neighborhood, take a 5-10 minute bus-ride to their school and a 5-10 minute ride in the afternoon to get back home. Parents who want to drop their kids off create chaos as hundreds of cars pack the areas around schools so they can drop-off their children. The local message boards are full of angry parents swearing at each other for driving poorly or violating some kind of unwritten rule during this drop-off/pick-up period. To say it's chaos would by minimizing it. My understanding is that no child walks to any of the schools, even if they live across the street. The consideration is that it's too dangerous, with all the buses and cars and all. And there's a couple largish roads with people who drive too fast. So instead of a couple crossing guards, they've created an unsafe chaos, used millions of dollars worth of equipment and hired a dozen or more bus drivers to shuttle kids back and forth to school. Of course once our pools are open, kids run around the entire neighborhood with complete abandon, dodging hi-speed traffic in flipflops as they frogger their way to their summer fun. I remember when I was a young child I had about a mile-by-mile area in an urban area I could free-range within. It was naturally cut-off by some major roads, but provided more than enough area for me and my friends to play around in. On occasion, I'd walk to elementary school instead of taking the bus, 3 or 4 miles away. It wasn't seen as a big deal. When I was about 10 we moved to a rural area, and my local free-range zone exploded to a massive wooded zone full of animals, and creeks and rivers. My mother decided she wanted me to attend an after-school program across the street from my school. It was at an intersection with crosswalks and walk signals and everything. Things went well for the first couple weeks. Then one day, in great alarm, the principal of the school grabbed me before I left for the day and forbade me from crossing the street. For the rest of the contract period with the after-school program, I had to call a taxi, wait 10-20 minute for him to show up, have him take me the 10 second drive across the street, pay the minimum fare (I think it was $5 at the time). Finally the taxi company even started complaining that this was stupid to the school, but my parents had had enough and pulled from the after school program and just let me take the bus home....where I happily walked a mile down a busy country dirt road from my bus stop to my house to put down my school stuff before heading off into the woods until it got dark.
toufka 11y ago
An interesting side effect is that most of the general populous in a larger city has very little contact with children in public. They've been removed from society at large - to the detriment of both the children and society.

by joliss 11y ago

brohoolio 11y ago

Very interesting.

brohoolio 11y ago
I wonder how much of it has to do with automobile traffic.
- DamnYuppie 11y ago
  Probably not much. Most of it, seems to me, to be related to unfounded fear that something bad is going to happen to the child.
  - revelation 11y ago
    Try walking those six miles to go fishing. I'd probably first have to spend 10 minutes to research suitable paths to even get there and not end up in the middle of a desert of cars.

patcheudor 11y ago

Yesterday I needed to run some errands and it hit me pretty hard how silly we've become. My seven year daughter didn't want to come with me and while I'm sure she's mature enough to stay at home by herself I went to Google to determine if I'd be viewed as a criminal or not in the eyes of my parenting peers or the state. It turned out that my local child protective services had a Q&A on their site stating that it's okay to leave a child home alone at age 11. I then went to my city and state statutes and couldn't find a single law which said it would be illegal. After a bit more research I found plenty of parents recommending that kids not only can, but should be left home alone if they are okay with it. This helps to build independence and self-esteem. I ended up leaving her at home alone for about an hour and not a single bad thing happened.

jobu 11y ago
No idea where it came from, but we've been told that up to one hour alone per grade level is a good rule of thumb.
- falsestprophet 11y ago
  I heard that too from a uninformed internet commenter.
bane 11y ago
We used to have the notion of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latchkey_kid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latchkey_kid I grew up with both parents working long hours, and I was definitely a Latchkey kid. From the time I got home until right before dinner I was usually alone to do what I wanted. I think for a few years, when I was 6 or 7, my mother required I call her every hour as a check-in, but even that relaxed by the time I was 8 or 9. My only requirement was to be home by dark, regardless of the time of year and if parents were home. Curiously, my parents would also occasionally hire a babysitter, but I never quite understood why and what for. It was pretty random.
DanBC 11y ago
Homes are pretty dangerous and sometimes children do stupid things. While child protective services shouldn't be called[1] for someone leaving a child for a short time CPS needs to have clear and easy to communicate guidelines. They might want to say "11 and up; unless they're not stupid and the home is safe and you're not gone too long" but, well, the target audience needs clearer information. [1] it'd be good if we had a "report early, report often" culture and the funding to go with it. A single report of a mild incident means nothing happens; several reports of mild incidents from different agencies means a freindly chat to see if help is needed or wanted.
- abfan1127 11y ago
  no they don't. we don't need them telling us when our children are responsible enough for particular tasks. When our first reaction is "is this illegal" we've gone too far. When bad laws influence good parents, its wrong and needs to be repealed immediately.

bane 11y ago

It's truly ridiculous sometimes. My neighborhood has half a dozen schools in it but it's only about a mile in any direction. It has extensive walking paths, sidewalks, crosswalks, lights, etc. Any child is within an easy 10-15 minute walk to school, and there wouldn't need to be more than 2 or 3 crossing guards to cover all the major roads and intersections. But this would be too easy, instead all the children line up at bus stops throughout the neighborhood, take a 5-10 minute bus-ride to their school and a 5-10 minute ride in the afternoon to get back home. Parents who want to drop their kids off create chaos as hundreds of cars pack the areas around schools so they can drop-off their children. The local message boards are full of angry parents swearing at each other for driving poorly or violating some kind of unwritten rule during this drop-off/pick-up period. To say it's chaos would by minimizing it. My understanding is that no child walks to any of the schools, even if they live across the street. The consideration is that it's too dangerous, with all the buses and cars and all. And there's a couple largish roads with people who drive too fast. So instead of a couple crossing guards, they've created an unsafe chaos, used millions of dollars worth of equipment and hired a dozen or more bus drivers to shuttle kids back and forth to school. Of course once our pools are open, kids run around the entire neighborhood with complete abandon, dodging hi-speed traffic in flipflops as they frogger their way to their summer fun. I remember when I was a young child I had about a mile-by-mile area in an urban area I could free-range within. It was naturally cut-off by some major roads, but provided more than enough area for me and my friends to play around in. On occasion, I'd walk to elementary school instead of taking the bus, 3 or 4 miles away. It wasn't seen as a big deal. When I was about 10 we moved to a rural area, and my local free-range zone exploded to a massive wooded zone full of animals, and creeks and rivers. My mother decided she wanted me to attend an after-school program across the street from my school. It was at an intersection with crosswalks and walk signals and everything. Things went well for the first couple weeks. Then one day, in great alarm, the principal of the school grabbed me before I left for the day and forbade me from crossing the street. For the rest of the contract period with the after-school program, I had to call a taxi, wait 10-20 minute for him to show up, have him take me the 10 second drive across the street, pay the minimum fare (I think it was $5 at the time). Finally the taxi company even started complaining that this was stupid to the school, but my parents had had enough and pulled from the after school program and just let me take the bus home....where I happily walked a mile down a busy country dirt road from my bus stop to my house to put down my school stuff before heading off into the woods until it got dark.

toufka 11y ago

An interesting side effect is that most of the general populous in a larger city has very little contact with children in public. They've been removed from society at large - to the detriment of both the children and society.