6 ms·

Facebook iPhone Dev Quits Project Over Apple Tyranny

127 points by vulpes 17y ago

nolanbrown23 17y ago
He's also the developer behind the three20 project which Apple has recently been rejecting apps using three20 because it was supposedly using private APIs. I can see how that can be frustrating to put in all that work in to develop a very valuable and powerful library and with the flick of a switch Apple makes your work almost useless.
- jzting 17y ago
  more information regarding app store rejections: http://groups.google.com/group/three20/browse_thread/thread/c442af6e39a918b0/2375e7a158ee9d1b http://groups.google.com/group/three20/browse_thread/thread/... app store safe fork: http://github.com/uprise78/three20-P31 http://github.com/uprise78/three20-P31
- grinich 17y ago
  Here his announcement to the Three20 Google Group. http://groups.google.com/group/three20/msg/9ab6b6345775dc45 http://groups.google.com/group/three20/msg/9ab6b6345775dc45
evgen 17y ago
I find the irony of a developer working for one of the biggest walled gardens on the internet complaining about walls around someone else's garden to be very deep into the pot/kettle/black territory...
- madair 17y ago
  Ummm, Facebook's wall is quite a bit less ominous than Apple's. You may want to return that irony to the store, they cheated you and watered it down.
  - naz 17y ago
    Collecting intimate personal details and selling it to advertisers is less ominous than screening apps to ensure quality?
    - madair 17y ago
      I thought they shut down that program recently?
      - kyro 17y ago
        You're talking about Beacon, which would gather data about what you're doing on other sites.
    - unalone 17y ago
      From a developer standpoint, immensely so.
      - indranil 17y ago
        huh!? O_o
        unalone 17y ago
        What matters here isn't "Are Apple and Facebook soulless and oppressive corporations?" (I'd argue no, lots of people would argue yes; either way it's not important.) What matters is how each is treating its developers. Facebook is open to developers and their publications; Apple isn't.
    - madair 17y ago
      For that the key is the privacy controls. We can argue about whether Facebook's privacy controls are good enough, whether they are selling our data, and so on. But that's got nothing to do with the Apple walled-garden comparison. I can write a FB app and have it up in a jiffy, that's just not the case with Apple. And I will be so very very surprised if Facebook censors a dictionary app.
- natrius 17y ago
  Describe a social network with user-friendly privacy controls that doesn't fall under your definition of "walled garden".
  - tedunangst 17y ago
    One with a link that says "Click here to download all your data."
    - nailer 17y ago
      I know Facebook API and could make that without too much effort. Do you think the demand is there? What format would users want such data in?
      - jotto 17y ago
        they're getting closer but they're not there yet. they have an API method in beta that allows you to pull the last 50 posts of a user's mini-feed, and then you can grab comments for each post in the mini feed, but that's not going to get you all user contributions.
- akamaka 17y ago
  Agreed. It rings even more hollow given the recent revelation about widespread scams in Facebook apps. If his company was doing as good a job at protecting users as Apple had, I'd be more inclined to listen to him. The position he's taken is a purely self-interested one, asking for more developer freedom without even acknowledging the difficult challenge Apple faces, and without admitting that maybe his company could learn something from them.
- davidw 17y ago
  Recall that you pay nothing to use facebook, whereas with an iPhone, something that you physically own, you're not even really allowed to do as you please with it.
amichail 17y ago
Aside from obvious quality benefits, the review process is a good thing because it results in users having more trust in apps developed by relatively unknown developers/companies.
- madair 17y ago
  I'm not sure all of us see the quality benefits quite so obviously. Are you implying that dictionaries with censored words are better quality?
  - teej 17y ago
    I challenge you to find a popular dicionary that isn't carefully curated. You can't just call up Webster and get a word added to the dictionary, there's a vetting process it has to go through.
    - deleted 17y ago
      [deleted]
    - madair 17y ago
      Curated != Censored.
- orangecat 17y ago
  Apple having a repository of approved apps is fine. Denying the ability to run other apps isn't.
wmeredith 17y ago
This is really too bad. I use Facebook via the iPhone app more than the web interface. I can't wait to see what he does next.
- bkbleikamp 17y ago
  The iPhone app is continuing, if it sucks he can always walk over to the desk of whoever is working on it and tell them why it sucks :)
  - numair 17y ago
    You assume he works in the office...
    - cakesy 17y ago
      and that he can still walk.
      - numair 17y ago
        Thanks for the useless remark. From what I know, Joe does a lot of work from home. (Note to self: HN is starting to get filled with the same sort of know-nothing, smart-ass comments that cause me to avoid places like TechCrunch)
b05us 17y ago
i'm sure gruber has some witty writeup as to why hewitt is wrong, and how his post is a big win not only for apple but for users and world hunger
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
jsz0 17y ago
Ideology in the work place is tricky. It's something most people should be very careful about. Most of us cannot opt out of a platform/technology we dislike personally. Even if you can it may be hard to rationalize their existence when you deposit your paycheck. I hope it works out for him.
- jimmybot 17y ago
  Nice, I literally read "philosophy" as "ideology" as well: "however I am [ideologically] opposed to the existence of their review process." (I wouldn't take ideology in necessarily a negative way)
indranil 17y ago
I can't believe that it's been a year and Apple still has the weird ass review process!
colbyolson 17y ago
I personally dont find the app very well made. Interesting outcome for the developer nonetheless.
- ivankirigin 17y ago
  It is the most popular free iphone app. That wouldn't be the case if it weren't well made. What don't you like?
  - allenbrunson 17y ago
    I use the facebook iPhone app quite a lot, and I don't like it either, so I'll take a stab at it. I never know what I'm looking at. The array of controls changes every time you move from one screen to the next, so I'm never sure where I am. And that button up in the right hand corner, the one that usually says "News Feed?" Say I'm trying to switch to something else, but all of a sudden the selector control stops working, because the app is busy trying to prefetch stuff for some selector option I didn't plan on choosing, I just stopped on that one temporarily. Then, when the control becomes responsive again, it's impossible not to overshoot, because now it's processing a bunch of user interface events that happened while it was ignoring me. Maybe part of the problem is that facebook itself is confusing. I don't really have any idea what the difference between "News Feed" and "Status Updates" is, and I'm not terribly interested in finding out, because the site will probably change to something else altogether in a month or two. Yeah, I have to admit, I just don't like facebook very much either. But everybody I know is there, and it's pretty, so here we are.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
  - scottjackson 17y ago
    > It is the most popular free iphone app. That wouldn't be the case if it weren't well made. I believe iFart was fairly popular for a time (where popular is defined as "downloaded many times"), and it even cost money, putting a financial barrier to entry in front of potential users. Does that make iFart a well-made app though? I don't think so (though maybe you or others do). I think the Facebook app's popularity just comes from the popularity of Facebook the service.
nailer 17y ago
If he'd like to work on a much more open app platform (where market update time is less than 24 hours) Facebook's Android app needs some love.
weegee 17y ago
crybaby
marram 17y ago
Maybe he just burnt-out and wants to move on to something else?
jasongullickson 17y ago
Smartphones, PDA's and other mobile-computing-platforms have been around for years (more than a decade). Almost all of them have provided third-party developers with a means of producing software for the platform. While some were more successful in this regard than others, none of them enjoyed the third-party-developer support that the iPhone now has, whether you measure that by number, quality or market share. What's the difference? Were these other platforms made from inferior technology, relative to the state-of-the-art at the time? Did they have inferior marketing? Was cost-of-entry too high for most developers? The app store approval process is one of the major differences between the iPhone and all preceding platforms. Is this just a coincidence? If you find Apple's process unacceptable there are many (ie, all) other platforms that offer similar devices on which to distribute your work without oversight by their creators. If you want to develop for a successful platform then you'll need to learn to appreciate the traits that make it so, and while not perfect, the App Store approval process is a key factor in that success.
dpapathanasiou 17y ago
The TC boys need a sense of perspective; while the App Store review process is terrible, it doesn't come close to being "tyranny".
- maukdaddy 17y ago
  Came here to say the same thing. Author needs to go live somewhere where they can experience true tyranny.
  - pavlov 17y ago
    Relax -- it's just a metaphor. The iTunes App Store may not be under tyranny, but that's like saying it's not an ecosystem because binaries are nothing like living creatures (nor is it a platform because it's not a flat physical object, etc. ad absurdum).

127 points by vulpes 17y ago

He's also the developer behind the three20 project which Apple has recently been rejecting apps using three20 because it was supposedly using private APIs. I can see how that can be frustrating to put in all that work in to develop a very valuable and powerful library and with the flick of a switch Apple makes your work almost useless.

jzting 17y ago
more information regarding app store rejections: http://groups.google.com/group/three20/browse_thread/thread/c442af6e39a918b0/2375e7a158ee9d1b http://groups.google.com/group/three20/browse_thread/thread/... app store safe fork: http://github.com/uprise78/three20-P31 http://github.com/uprise78/three20-P31
grinich 17y ago
Here his announcement to the Three20 Google Group. http://groups.google.com/group/three20/msg/9ab6b6345775dc45 http://groups.google.com/group/three20/msg/9ab6b6345775dc45

evgen 17y ago

I find the irony of a developer working for one of the biggest walled gardens on the internet complaining about walls around someone else's garden to be very deep into the pot/kettle/black territory...

madair 17y ago
Ummm, Facebook's wall is quite a bit less ominous than Apple's. You may want to return that irony to the store, they cheated you and watered it down.
- naz 17y ago
  Collecting intimate personal details and selling it to advertisers is less ominous than screening apps to ensure quality?
  - madair 17y ago
    I thought they shut down that program recently?
    - kyro 17y ago
      You're talking about Beacon, which would gather data about what you're doing on other sites.
  - unalone 17y ago
    From a developer standpoint, immensely so.
    - indranil 17y ago
      huh!? O_o
      - unalone 17y ago
        What matters here isn't "Are Apple and Facebook soulless and oppressive corporations?" (I'd argue no, lots of people would argue yes; either way it's not important.) What matters is how each is treating its developers. Facebook is open to developers and their publications; Apple isn't.
  - madair 17y ago
    For that the key is the privacy controls. We can argue about whether Facebook's privacy controls are good enough, whether they are selling our data, and so on. But that's got nothing to do with the Apple walled-garden comparison. I can write a FB app and have it up in a jiffy, that's just not the case with Apple. And I will be so very very surprised if Facebook censors a dictionary app.
natrius 17y ago
Describe a social network with user-friendly privacy controls that doesn't fall under your definition of "walled garden".
- tedunangst 17y ago
  One with a link that says "Click here to download all your data."
  - nailer 17y ago
    I know Facebook API and could make that without too much effort. Do you think the demand is there? What format would users want such data in?
    - jotto 17y ago
      they're getting closer but they're not there yet. they have an API method in beta that allows you to pull the last 50 posts of a user's mini-feed, and then you can grab comments for each post in the mini feed, but that's not going to get you all user contributions.
akamaka 17y ago
Agreed. It rings even more hollow given the recent revelation about widespread scams in Facebook apps. If his company was doing as good a job at protecting users as Apple had, I'd be more inclined to listen to him. The position he's taken is a purely self-interested one, asking for more developer freedom without even acknowledging the difficult challenge Apple faces, and without admitting that maybe his company could learn something from them.
davidw 17y ago
Recall that you pay nothing to use facebook, whereas with an iPhone, something that you physically own, you're not even really allowed to do as you please with it.

amichail 17y ago

Aside from obvious quality benefits, the review process is a good thing because it results in users having more trust in apps developed by relatively unknown developers/companies.

madair 17y ago
I'm not sure all of us see the quality benefits quite so obviously. Are you implying that dictionaries with censored words are better quality?
- teej 17y ago
  I challenge you to find a popular dicionary that isn't carefully curated. You can't just call up Webster and get a word added to the dictionary, there's a vetting process it has to go through.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
  - madair 17y ago
    Curated != Censored.
orangecat 17y ago
Apple having a repository of approved apps is fine. Denying the ability to run other apps isn't.

wmeredith 17y ago

This is really too bad. I use Facebook via the iPhone app more than the web interface. I can't wait to see what he does next.

bkbleikamp 17y ago
The iPhone app is continuing, if it sucks he can always walk over to the desk of whoever is working on it and tell them why it sucks :)
- numair 17y ago
  You assume he works in the office...
  - cakesy 17y ago
    and that he can still walk.
    - numair 17y ago
      Thanks for the useless remark. From what I know, Joe does a lot of work from home. (Note to self: HN is starting to get filled with the same sort of know-nothing, smart-ass comments that cause me to avoid places like TechCrunch)

b05us 17y ago

i'm sure gruber has some witty writeup as to why hewitt is wrong, and how his post is a big win not only for apple but for users and world hunger

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

jsz0 17y ago

Ideology in the work place is tricky. It's something most people should be very careful about. Most of us cannot opt out of a platform/technology we dislike personally. Even if you can it may be hard to rationalize their existence when you deposit your paycheck. I hope it works out for him.

jimmybot 17y ago
Nice, I literally read "philosophy" as "ideology" as well: "however I am [ideologically] opposed to the existence of their review process." (I wouldn't take ideology in necessarily a negative way)

indranil 17y ago

I can't believe that it's been a year and Apple still has the weird ass review process!

colbyolson 17y ago

I personally dont find the app very well made. Interesting outcome for the developer nonetheless.

ivankirigin 17y ago
It is the most popular free iphone app. That wouldn't be the case if it weren't well made. What don't you like?
- allenbrunson 17y ago
  I use the facebook iPhone app quite a lot, and I don't like it either, so I'll take a stab at it. I never know what I'm looking at. The array of controls changes every time you move from one screen to the next, so I'm never sure where I am. And that button up in the right hand corner, the one that usually says "News Feed?" Say I'm trying to switch to something else, but all of a sudden the selector control stops working, because the app is busy trying to prefetch stuff for some selector option I didn't plan on choosing, I just stopped on that one temporarily. Then, when the control becomes responsive again, it's impossible not to overshoot, because now it's processing a bunch of user interface events that happened while it was ignoring me. Maybe part of the problem is that facebook itself is confusing. I don't really have any idea what the difference between "News Feed" and "Status Updates" is, and I'm not terribly interested in finding out, because the site will probably change to something else altogether in a month or two. Yeah, I have to admit, I just don't like facebook very much either. But everybody I know is there, and it's pretty, so here we are.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
- scottjackson 17y ago
  > It is the most popular free iphone app. That wouldn't be the case if it weren't well made. I believe iFart was fairly popular for a time (where popular is defined as "downloaded many times"), and it even cost money, putting a financial barrier to entry in front of potential users. Does that make iFart a well-made app though? I don't think so (though maybe you or others do). I think the Facebook app's popularity just comes from the popularity of Facebook the service.

nailer 17y ago

If he'd like to work on a much more open app platform (where market update time is less than 24 hours) Facebook's Android app needs some love.

weegee 17y ago

crybaby

marram 17y ago

Maybe he just burnt-out and wants to move on to something else?

jasongullickson 17y ago

Smartphones, PDA's and other mobile-computing-platforms have been around for years (more than a decade). Almost all of them have provided third-party developers with a means of producing software for the platform. While some were more successful in this regard than others, none of them enjoyed the third-party-developer support that the iPhone now has, whether you measure that by number, quality or market share. What's the difference? Were these other platforms made from inferior technology, relative to the state-of-the-art at the time? Did they have inferior marketing? Was cost-of-entry too high for most developers? The app store approval process is one of the major differences between the iPhone and all preceding platforms. Is this just a coincidence? If you find Apple's process unacceptable there are many (ie, all) other platforms that offer similar devices on which to distribute your work without oversight by their creators. If you want to develop for a successful platform then you'll need to learn to appreciate the traits that make it so, and while not perfect, the App Store approval process is a key factor in that success.

dpapathanasiou 17y ago

The TC boys need a sense of perspective; while the App Store review process is terrible, it doesn't come close to being "tyranny".

maukdaddy 17y ago
Came here to say the same thing. Author needs to go live somewhere where they can experience true tyranny.
- pavlov 17y ago
  Relax -- it's just a metaphor. The iTunes App Store may not be under tyranny, but that's like saying it's not an ecosystem because binaries are nothing like living creatures (nor is it a platform because it's not a flat physical object, etc. ad absurdum).