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Is what they're doing legal? I'm pretty sure a tourist visa means you can't use it for work (activities for which payment is received or capital is gained), eve

Is what they're doing legal? I'm pretty sure a tourist visa means you can't use it for work (activities for which payment is received or capital is gained), even remote work. I'm told that the Thai government is pretty harsh in punishing such things.

znq 11y ago
We were there on holidays ;-) But I know what you're talking and while what we're doing is technically a gray zone, what the government is after is mostly freelancers that basically live in Thailand, but are not paying taxes there and are constantly on a visa run to re-enter the country.
- neindanke 11y ago
  > We were there on holidays ;-) No, you stated you were working. From your article's title: "Working Remotely From A Tropical Island In Thailand" > what we're doing is technically a gray zone Did you file a tax statement and did you pay any taxes on income earned while you were residing in Thailand?
  - znq 11y ago
    > No, you stated you were working Noticed the smiley? Nevertheless, how do you differentiate between holidays and work and where to draw the line? If you're responding to a work emails while being on holidays, does that count towards the taxable income in that country you're visiting? > Did you file a tax statement and did you pay any taxes on income earned while you were residing in Thailand? Absolutely. We're not evading taxes. All income is taxed in Spain. And we weren't residing in Thailand. We were only visiting it and happened to also do some things that were related to our business back home in Europe. The work we did had nothing to do with Thailand itself. I'm not an international tax specialist, but at least from a moral point of view I don't see that we did something wrong. In European countries for example you only become a tax resident if you spend more than 183 days there. EDIT: formatting
    - ashconnor 11y ago
      >In European countries for example you only become a tax resident if you spend more than 183 days there. Pity Thais cannot easily come to Spain and work illegally. Despite what you've said it's blatant public abuse of the tourist visa system in Thailand. Honestly when I see blog posts like this my opinion of the author and company goes down considerably. Breaking the rules and publishing the fact that you are makes me question what other grey areas you'd operate in.
      - geomark 11y ago
        Yes, what they did violates immigration law in Thailand. And the comments of a senior immigration official don't change the law; they just indicate that at least in that region the enforcement is likely to be rather lax. But there's really nothing to get bent about. No locals were out of a job. They lived there as tourists so paid a lot more into the local economy than locals, including a lot more taxes in the form of VAT on all their purchases. The only real issue is that they were at risk even if they didn't sense it, because what happens now and then is someone gets pissed off (usually another foreigner) and rats someone out. Then the police see an opportunity to collect an extortionate "fine" before they get deported.
        hingisundhorsa 11y ago
        > No locals were out of a job Could you explain how you formed that conclusion? > They lived there as tourists so paid a lot more into the local economy than locals How did you determine that? I've lived as a hippie in India, similar to what Steve Jobs did. I spent 0 money and lived off the temple welfare system. I was exploiting the generosity of people who had a thousandth the resources and welfare that I had. I wasn't alone. There were hundreds, if not thousands of other Westerners doing similar things.
        newaccountfool 11y ago
        > Could you explain how you formed that conclusion? It appears that Mobile Jazz is a company that caters to western audiences, most of the work they will be doing will be for western clients who wouldn't hire Thai workers. The workers just happen to be out of office when they do their jobs.
- stephenr 11y ago
  No, it isn't a "Gray zone" at all. You're breaking Thai law and contributing to a negative image about foreign workers in a country that already has stringent immigration laws. So as someone doing it the legal way and jumping through the hoops created to catch people like you, I'd just like to say FUCK YOU VERY MUCH.
  - newaccountfool 11y ago
    Don't hate the player, hate the game. Not everyone likes to live risk free.
dataker 11y ago
Technically, if they don't receive money in a Thai bank, it'd be both hard and unfeasible to be punished. Don't wanna state the obvious,but even If you're coding(could claim to be open-souce work), it's not like the police is gonna spy on you.
- stephenr 11y ago
  Any form of "work" (defined as exertion of effort from memory) is deemed illegal without a work permit - international volunteers need one just as much as those of us working for a commercial entity. Re "spying on you": immigration police have conducted "raids" on coworking spaces, not to mention the potential for upset/disgruntled locals/competitors/whoever to report you.
- wila 11y ago
  > could claim to be open-source work Sounds reasonable , but it doesn't work that way. Work for free or charity work still counts as work and is no less illegal. See also: http://www.thaivisa.com/462-0.html http://www.thaivisa.com/462-0.html (the article is from 2006, but that law hasn't changed)
vbcr 11y ago
Not sure about Thailand, but this is true for USA. My colleague's wife is on H4 (dependant) visa and prior to coming to USA, she had a job in India. We talked to a lawyer and then with USCIS and both of them confirmed that it is not a possibility that she can work remote here in USA on H4 even though she gets paid in India.
- znq 11y ago
  What you can do though is travel to the US for business purposes.
  - erkkie 11y ago
    Anyone doing this should also check what qualifies as business to avoid confusion at the border (there are specific things one is allowed to do and specific things not, IANAL, YMMV).
  - ashconnor 11y ago
    Business purposes is things like signing contracts and participating in meetings. Not doing actual work.
    - znq 11y ago
      For some people that is their work.
byoung2 11y ago
http://asiancorrespondent.com/125980/thai-immigration-officials-say-digital-nomads-ok-to-work-on-tourist-visas/ http://asiancorrespondent.com/125980/thai-immigration-offici...
- neindanke 11y ago
  That article just confuses me. It says it is ok and then contradicts it a paragraph later. Eg: "Digital nomads – people working remotely or running online businesses – in Thailand can legally work there on tourist visas" But one paragraph down: "It is unlikely that travellers will be granted a re-entry stamp after two or three visa runs. If your passport is stamped “O-I” (out-in) upon arrival, it is unlikely that you will be able to re-enter the country again should you decide to do a visa run"
  - ashconnor 11y ago
    Don't let the article confuse you. It's 100% illegal to work in Thailand on a tourist visa despite the comments of the Chiang Mai immigration office. http://ashleyconnor.co.uk/blog/2014/09/07/working-in-thailand-as-a-digital-nomad/ http://ashleyconnor.co.uk/blog/2014/09/07/working-in-thailan...
  - byoung2 11y ago
    It is confusing two separate ideas. One is that it is ok to work while on a tourist visa, the other is that doing multiple visa runs (regardless of whether you work) is not ok. The out-in problem is true of many countries and has nothing to do with working.

znq 11y ago

We were there on holidays ;-) But I know what you're talking and while what we're doing is technically a gray zone, what the government is after is mostly freelancers that basically live in Thailand, but are not paying taxes there and are constantly on a visa run to re-enter the country.

neindanke 11y ago
> We were there on holidays ;-) No, you stated you were working. From your article's title: "Working Remotely From A Tropical Island In Thailand" > what we're doing is technically a gray zone Did you file a tax statement and did you pay any taxes on income earned while you were residing in Thailand?
- znq 11y ago
  > No, you stated you were working Noticed the smiley? Nevertheless, how do you differentiate between holidays and work and where to draw the line? If you're responding to a work emails while being on holidays, does that count towards the taxable income in that country you're visiting? > Did you file a tax statement and did you pay any taxes on income earned while you were residing in Thailand? Absolutely. We're not evading taxes. All income is taxed in Spain. And we weren't residing in Thailand. We were only visiting it and happened to also do some things that were related to our business back home in Europe. The work we did had nothing to do with Thailand itself. I'm not an international tax specialist, but at least from a moral point of view I don't see that we did something wrong. In European countries for example you only become a tax resident if you spend more than 183 days there. EDIT: formatting
  - ashconnor 11y ago
    >In European countries for example you only become a tax resident if you spend more than 183 days there. Pity Thais cannot easily come to Spain and work illegally. Despite what you've said it's blatant public abuse of the tourist visa system in Thailand. Honestly when I see blog posts like this my opinion of the author and company goes down considerably. Breaking the rules and publishing the fact that you are makes me question what other grey areas you'd operate in.
    - geomark 11y ago
      Yes, what they did violates immigration law in Thailand. And the comments of a senior immigration official don't change the law; they just indicate that at least in that region the enforcement is likely to be rather lax. But there's really nothing to get bent about. No locals were out of a job. They lived there as tourists so paid a lot more into the local economy than locals, including a lot more taxes in the form of VAT on all their purchases. The only real issue is that they were at risk even if they didn't sense it, because what happens now and then is someone gets pissed off (usually another foreigner) and rats someone out. Then the police see an opportunity to collect an extortionate "fine" before they get deported.
      - hingisundhorsa 11y ago
        > No locals were out of a job Could you explain how you formed that conclusion? > They lived there as tourists so paid a lot more into the local economy than locals How did you determine that? I've lived as a hippie in India, similar to what Steve Jobs did. I spent 0 money and lived off the temple welfare system. I was exploiting the generosity of people who had a thousandth the resources and welfare that I had. I wasn't alone. There were hundreds, if not thousands of other Westerners doing similar things.
        newaccountfool 11y ago
        > Could you explain how you formed that conclusion? It appears that Mobile Jazz is a company that caters to western audiences, most of the work they will be doing will be for western clients who wouldn't hire Thai workers. The workers just happen to be out of office when they do their jobs.
stephenr 11y ago
No, it isn't a "Gray zone" at all. You're breaking Thai law and contributing to a negative image about foreign workers in a country that already has stringent immigration laws. So as someone doing it the legal way and jumping through the hoops created to catch people like you, I'd just like to say FUCK YOU VERY MUCH.
- newaccountfool 11y ago
  Don't hate the player, hate the game. Not everyone likes to live risk free.

dataker 11y ago

Technically, if they don't receive money in a Thai bank, it'd be both hard and unfeasible to be punished. Don't wanna state the obvious,but even If you're coding(could claim to be open-souce work), it's not like the police is gonna spy on you.

stephenr 11y ago
Any form of "work" (defined as exertion of effort from memory) is deemed illegal without a work permit - international volunteers need one just as much as those of us working for a commercial entity. Re "spying on you": immigration police have conducted "raids" on coworking spaces, not to mention the potential for upset/disgruntled locals/competitors/whoever to report you.
wila 11y ago
> could claim to be open-source work Sounds reasonable , but it doesn't work that way. Work for free or charity work still counts as work and is no less illegal. See also: http://www.thaivisa.com/462-0.html http://www.thaivisa.com/462-0.html (the article is from 2006, but that law hasn't changed)

vbcr 11y ago

Not sure about Thailand, but this is true for USA. My colleague's wife is on H4 (dependant) visa and prior to coming to USA, she had a job in India. We talked to a lawyer and then with USCIS and both of them confirmed that it is not a possibility that she can work remote here in USA on H4 even though she gets paid in India.

znq 11y ago
What you can do though is travel to the US for business purposes.
- erkkie 11y ago
  Anyone doing this should also check what qualifies as business to avoid confusion at the border (there are specific things one is allowed to do and specific things not, IANAL, YMMV).
- ashconnor 11y ago
  Business purposes is things like signing contracts and participating in meetings. Not doing actual work.
  - znq 11y ago
    For some people that is their work.

byoung2 11y ago

http://asiancorrespondent.com/125980/thai-immigration-officials-say-digital-nomads-ok-to-work-on-tourist-visas/ http://asiancorrespondent.com/125980/thai-immigration-offici...

neindanke 11y ago
That article just confuses me. It says it is ok and then contradicts it a paragraph later. Eg: "Digital nomads – people working remotely or running online businesses – in Thailand can legally work there on tourist visas" But one paragraph down: "It is unlikely that travellers will be granted a re-entry stamp after two or three visa runs. If your passport is stamped “O-I” (out-in) upon arrival, it is unlikely that you will be able to re-enter the country again should you decide to do a visa run"
- ashconnor 11y ago
  Don't let the article confuse you. It's 100% illegal to work in Thailand on a tourist visa despite the comments of the Chiang Mai immigration office. http://ashleyconnor.co.uk/blog/2014/09/07/working-in-thailand-as-a-digital-nomad/ http://ashleyconnor.co.uk/blog/2014/09/07/working-in-thailan...
- byoung2 11y ago
  It is confusing two separate ideas. One is that it is ok to work while on a tourist visa, the other is that doing multiple visa runs (regardless of whether you work) is not ok. The out-in problem is true of many countries and has nothing to do with working.