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(Christian from Stripe here.) We credit USD to our user's account when we see a transaction that we believe will become confirmed. The time-delay between when t

by cca 12y ago

(Christian from Stripe here.) We credit USD to our user's account when we see a transaction that we believe will become confirmed. The time-delay between when the customer pushes the transaction and when we notify our users is typically less than 15 seconds and almost always less than 60 seconds.

Shank 12y ago
Has the technology changed/evolved enough that that's credible? I was under the impression that it wasn't "fully confirmed" by the network until a new block was mined, or you could have double spend attacks?
- sfeng 12y ago
  Credit card fraud protection often relies on heuristics, perhaps they are doing a similar thing here.
veryluckyxyz 12y ago
> We credit USD to our user's account when we see a transaction that we believe will become confirmed. Can you please elaborate?
- NeutronBoy 12y ago
  Really the key question is: if a transaction that you believe will become confirmed, turns out to be invalid, who wears that? Stripe, or me? Will Stripe eat that, or will I get hit with the difference?
sah88 12y ago
What happens if it does not get confirmed. Do you debit the account by an equivalent amount or eat it?
- freework 12y ago
  its very easy to predict if a transaction will confirm.
  - runeks 12y ago
    The problem isn't detecting whether 99% of transactions will confirm. The problem is preventing someone from ordering $10,000 worth of gold from a site that uses Stripe with Bitcoin payments enabled. Sending a paying transaction to Stripe, who confirms it within a minute, and simultaneously mining a block with contains a transaction that double spends the bitcoins sent to Stripe. Stripe is now out $10,000. You receive your gold, sell it to your local bullion dealer for $9,500. Of course, for Stripe, there are various hackish ways around this problem, like defining a maximum amount of, say, $1000, so that the above attack requires the attacker to mine 10 blocks instead of 1 (ie. repeat the procedure 10 times), in order to earn $10,000. But they don't really solve the fundamental problem of accepting unconfirmed Bitcoin transactions.
    - freework 12y ago
      It costs 80 million dollars to buy all the hardware to mine a single block. It will probably costs 800 million dollars to amass enough computing power to mine 10 blocks. It only makes sense to double spend a transaction with a VERY large amount. No transaction going through stripe will qualify.
- cca 12y ago
  It's a good question. We want Bitcoin acceptance to be straightforward for our users, so we deal with a failed confirmation on our side. We do not debit the user.
  - runeks 12y ago
    Hence the 0.5% fee. :) I suspect this is the reason Bitpay is able to waive fees completely: they do not take responsibility for unconfirmed transactions. > Note: Regardless of the transaction speed settings, a fully paid invoice is credited to your merchant account after the transaction has accrued six confirmations. [1] [1] https://support.bitpay.com/hc/en-us/articles/202943915-What-is-Transaction-Speed- https://support.bitpay.com/hc/en-us/articles/202943915-What-...

by cca 12y ago

Shank 12y ago

Has the technology changed/evolved enough that that's credible? I was under the impression that it wasn't "fully confirmed" by the network until a new block was mined, or you could have double spend attacks?

sfeng 12y ago
Credit card fraud protection often relies on heuristics, perhaps they are doing a similar thing here.

veryluckyxyz 12y ago

> We credit USD to our user's account when we see a transaction that we believe will become confirmed. Can you please elaborate?

NeutronBoy 12y ago
Really the key question is: if a transaction that you believe will become confirmed, turns out to be invalid, who wears that? Stripe, or me? Will Stripe eat that, or will I get hit with the difference?

sah88 12y ago

What happens if it does not get confirmed. Do you debit the account by an equivalent amount or eat it?

freework 12y ago
its very easy to predict if a transaction will confirm.
- runeks 12y ago
  The problem isn't detecting whether 99% of transactions will confirm. The problem is preventing someone from ordering $10,000 worth of gold from a site that uses Stripe with Bitcoin payments enabled. Sending a paying transaction to Stripe, who confirms it within a minute, and simultaneously mining a block with contains a transaction that double spends the bitcoins sent to Stripe. Stripe is now out $10,000. You receive your gold, sell it to your local bullion dealer for $9,500. Of course, for Stripe, there are various hackish ways around this problem, like defining a maximum amount of, say, $1000, so that the above attack requires the attacker to mine 10 blocks instead of 1 (ie. repeat the procedure 10 times), in order to earn $10,000. But they don't really solve the fundamental problem of accepting unconfirmed Bitcoin transactions.
  - freework 12y ago
    It costs 80 million dollars to buy all the hardware to mine a single block. It will probably costs 800 million dollars to amass enough computing power to mine 10 blocks. It only makes sense to double spend a transaction with a VERY large amount. No transaction going through stripe will qualify.
cca 12y ago
It's a good question. We want Bitcoin acceptance to be straightforward for our users, so we deal with a failed confirmation on our side. We do not debit the user.
- runeks 12y ago
  Hence the 0.5% fee. :) I suspect this is the reason Bitpay is able to waive fees completely: they do not take responsibility for unconfirmed transactions. > Note: Regardless of the transaction speed settings, a fully paid invoice is credited to your merchant account after the transaction has accrued six confirmations. [1] [1] https://support.bitpay.com/hc/en-us/articles/202943915-What-is-Transaction-Speed- https://support.bitpay.com/hc/en-us/articles/202943915-What-...