7 ms·

"This means that somewhere, this instance needs to be connected to a proxy server, which assigns a 10.x.x.x address to the “Windows” machine, and then forwards

"This means that somewhere, this instance needs to be connected to a proxy server, which assigns a 10.x.x.x address to the “Windows” machine, and then forwards the connections through. Basically, world’s weirdest, most hipster ISP on the face of the earth." I wonder if there will ever be a business case for things like this. I sit across the hall from a startup that sells mp3 gramaphones, etsy is a huge success, there are strange Kickstarter projects every day. Is nostalgia a permanent long tail phenomenon, or a fad from which people will move on?

textfiles 12y ago
Well, the bespoke vintage internet experience is kind of what we're up to at the Internet Archive, so you'll see us move into that more, I guess.
stinkytaco 12y ago
There's no doubt in my mind that nostalgia is a permanent phenomenon. Spencer wrote The Faerie Queene in deliberately antique english to appeal to people's nostalgia. And that was more that 400 years ago. There's been a market for classic cars almost as long as there's been cars. How many businesses will carve out a niche in long tail tech is harder to tell. I expect it will be like many things, many enter, few leave.
- slg 12y ago
  Nostalgia might be a consistent phenomenon, but surely what we are nostalgia about changes. A 20 year old likely never experienced Windows 3.11 in the first place. That would likely make them view emulating it more of a novelty exercise than a nostalgic one, which anecdotally is a weaker and shorter lived motivator.
  - RyanMcGreal 12y ago
    On the other hand, a 20-year-old probably didn't grow up with a record player but suddenly vinyl is in a huge renaissance.
    - lione 12y ago
      On the other other hand, Vinyl at least has some upsides. Listening to a Vinyl is an experience, plus it's lossless, and physically owning a record is cool/makes good art/conversation pieces. Windows3.11 would be interesting to check out, but it'd be more like something you'd check out for 20 minutes to see how it used to be done, then you'd go back to your modern OS. Vinyl is an experience, most older software is a novelty.
      - tedks 12y ago
        On the other other hand, Windows 3.1 has some upsides. Running Windows 3.1 is an experience, plus it's on DOS, and having a Windows 3.1 install on your laptop is cool/makes good art/conversations pieces. Vinyl would be interesting to listen to once or twice to show off to your friends, but it'd be more like something you'd set up once to see how it used to be done, then you'd go back to an iPod. Windows 3.1 is an experience, vinyl is a novelty.
        jerf 12y ago
        I think the closest equivalent to the claim that vinyl is lossless would be that Windows 3.1 is efficient. Well... sure... if you squint hard enough and tune the definition of lossless/efficient properly, sure... but not in an actually relevant manner.
        tedks 12y ago
        Windows 3.1 is on DOS, so it is lossless. There's no intermediary between any program and any other program. Everything runs in pure, unadulterated Ring 0, raw, unprocessed 16 bits.
        wuliwong 12y ago
        While you are obviously exceedingly clever, you're funny inversion is BS. Vinyl isn't a novelty. It is a small but non-negligible market. In my anecdotal experience, myself and my friends have had record players and have been listening to and buying records for years. The "market" for Windows 3.1 machines in 2015 is microscopic and completely negligible.
  - ANTSANTS 12y ago
    Ever been on a video game emulation forum? A lot of the users come across as about 10 years old. Windows 3.11 may not have the same appeal, but I bet you there are kids learning DOS today to play System Shock.
8ig8 12y ago
> Is nostalgia a permanent long tail phenomenon, or a fad from which people will move on? I think you can count on it as long as the 'retro gap' [1] holds at the current level. [1] http://www.theonion.com/articles/us-dept-of-retro-warns-we-may-be-running-out-of-pa,873/ http://www.theonion.com/articles/us-dept-of-retro-warns-we-m...
iso8859-1 12y ago
A similar feature exists in the Javascript OpenRISC emulator: http://www.benjamincburns.com/2013/11/10/jor1k-ethmac-support.html http://www.benjamincburns.com/2013/11/10/jor1k-ethmac-suppor...
bai0 12y ago
Actually, PPP over Websockets has some really interesting implications. Raw TCP/UDP in your browser is a potentially powerful thing. It's like a VPN client in your browser - once you're connected, you can bridge private networks, or establish pure TCP connections to any server on the internet, without special-case wrappers or browser-imposed WebSocket restrictions.
- db48x 12y ago
  Hopefully it won't ever be used for a serious VPN; tunnelling TCP inside of TCP (or UDP inside of TCP) leads to well-known stability problems.
  - bai0 12y ago
    There's always the possibility of using WebRTC data as a transport instead of WebSockets. It's like a 7-layer burrito with extra helpings of sour cream and guac - a bit mushy, but still a burrito.
    - db48x 12y ago
      Yes, I'd forgotten about that! Use a data channel with no retransmissions and it should work perfectly.
mark-r 12y ago
They don't make nostalgia like they used to.
- dean 12y ago
  Ah yes, the good old days.

textfiles 12y ago

Well, the bespoke vintage internet experience is kind of what we're up to at the Internet Archive, so you'll see us move into that more, I guess.

stinkytaco 12y ago

There's no doubt in my mind that nostalgia is a permanent phenomenon. Spencer wrote The Faerie Queene in deliberately antique english to appeal to people's nostalgia. And that was more that 400 years ago. There's been a market for classic cars almost as long as there's been cars. How many businesses will carve out a niche in long tail tech is harder to tell. I expect it will be like many things, many enter, few leave.

slg 12y ago
Nostalgia might be a consistent phenomenon, but surely what we are nostalgia about changes. A 20 year old likely never experienced Windows 3.11 in the first place. That would likely make them view emulating it more of a novelty exercise than a nostalgic one, which anecdotally is a weaker and shorter lived motivator.
- RyanMcGreal 12y ago
  On the other hand, a 20-year-old probably didn't grow up with a record player but suddenly vinyl is in a huge renaissance.
  - lione 12y ago
    On the other other hand, Vinyl at least has some upsides. Listening to a Vinyl is an experience, plus it's lossless, and physically owning a record is cool/makes good art/conversation pieces. Windows3.11 would be interesting to check out, but it'd be more like something you'd check out for 20 minutes to see how it used to be done, then you'd go back to your modern OS. Vinyl is an experience, most older software is a novelty.
    - tedks 12y ago
      On the other other hand, Windows 3.1 has some upsides. Running Windows 3.1 is an experience, plus it's on DOS, and having a Windows 3.1 install on your laptop is cool/makes good art/conversations pieces. Vinyl would be interesting to listen to once or twice to show off to your friends, but it'd be more like something you'd set up once to see how it used to be done, then you'd go back to an iPod. Windows 3.1 is an experience, vinyl is a novelty.
      - jerf 12y ago
        I think the closest equivalent to the claim that vinyl is lossless would be that Windows 3.1 is efficient. Well... sure... if you squint hard enough and tune the definition of lossless/efficient properly, sure... but not in an actually relevant manner.
        tedks 12y ago
        Windows 3.1 is on DOS, so it is lossless. There's no intermediary between any program and any other program. Everything runs in pure, unadulterated Ring 0, raw, unprocessed 16 bits.
      - wuliwong 12y ago
        While you are obviously exceedingly clever, you're funny inversion is BS. Vinyl isn't a novelty. It is a small but non-negligible market. In my anecdotal experience, myself and my friends have had record players and have been listening to and buying records for years. The "market" for Windows 3.1 machines in 2015 is microscopic and completely negligible.
- ANTSANTS 12y ago
  Ever been on a video game emulation forum? A lot of the users come across as about 10 years old. Windows 3.11 may not have the same appeal, but I bet you there are kids learning DOS today to play System Shock.

8ig8 12y ago

> Is nostalgia a permanent long tail phenomenon, or a fad from which people will move on? I think you can count on it as long as the 'retro gap' [1] holds at the current level. [1] http://www.theonion.com/articles/us-dept-of-retro-warns-we-may-be-running-out-of-pa,873/ http://www.theonion.com/articles/us-dept-of-retro-warns-we-m...

iso8859-1 12y ago

A similar feature exists in the Javascript OpenRISC emulator: http://www.benjamincburns.com/2013/11/10/jor1k-ethmac-support.html http://www.benjamincburns.com/2013/11/10/jor1k-ethmac-suppor...

bai0 12y ago

Actually, PPP over Websockets has some really interesting implications. Raw TCP/UDP in your browser is a potentially powerful thing. It's like a VPN client in your browser - once you're connected, you can bridge private networks, or establish pure TCP connections to any server on the internet, without special-case wrappers or browser-imposed WebSocket restrictions.

db48x 12y ago
Hopefully it won't ever be used for a serious VPN; tunnelling TCP inside of TCP (or UDP inside of TCP) leads to well-known stability problems.
- bai0 12y ago
  There's always the possibility of using WebRTC data as a transport instead of WebSockets. It's like a 7-layer burrito with extra helpings of sour cream and guac - a bit mushy, but still a burrito.
  - db48x 12y ago
    Yes, I'd forgotten about that! Use a data channel with no retransmissions and it should work perfectly.

mark-r 12y ago

They don't make nostalgia like they used to.

dean 12y ago
Ah yes, the good old days.