6 ms·

300 pounds needed for Shen to become BSD licensed

32 points by barbudorojo 12y ago

The objective to convert Shen to BSD is very near, a pledge of 300 pounds is needed: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/qilang/fZZvPzCTVyA

sp332 12y ago
What is this?
- arto 12y ago
  http://www.shenlanguage.org/ http://www.shenlanguage.org/ > Shen is a portable functional programming language that offers pattern matching, lambda calculus consistency, macros, optional lazy evaluation, static type checking, an integrated fully functional Prolog, and an inbuilt compiler-compiler. > Shen has one of the most powerful type systems within functional programming. Shen runs under a reduced instruction Lisp and is designed for portability. The word ‘Shen’ is Chinese for 'spirit' and our motto reflects our desire to liberate our work to live under many platforms.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
arto 12y ago
http://www.shenlanguage.org/shenbsd.htm http://www.shenlanguage.org/shenbsd.htm
gue5t 12y ago
Why is money needed to achieve this licensing goal?
- takeda 12y ago
  I just looked at older conversations on the mailing list, I think this provides a bit of explanation: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/qilang/HBBjtIxegFY/Wmv3Lh1IRwsJ https://groups.google.com/d/msg/qilang/HBBjtIxegFY/Wmv3Lh1IR...
  - jgh 12y ago
    Why does he need a lawyer to do a BSD license?
    - hga 12y ago
      He used an estimate of what it would take to have a lawyer draft a new licence to price simply changing it to BSD.
  - bachmeier 12y ago
    So he wants a certain amount of money, essentially a payment to change the license. I don't understand the connection to hiring a lawyer but whatever... Tarver claims the current license is more open than the GPL. I don't understand the basis for that claim.
listic 12y ago
They have a committee with the chairman, vice-chairman and deputy vice-chairman; but does anyone actually use this language?
briandear 12y ago
Why does it cost money to get BSD licensed? I am not sure -- who actually gets the money from this drive? For fundraising, there certainly isn't a lot of information. I am very ignorant about this particular domain, so please excuse me!
- barbudorojo 12y ago
  I just copied a post from the Shen group: I've now begun collecting on the pledges. £2583.52 was pledged, but I'll honour my side as soon as I've collected £2500, which should be reached if people keep to their pledges. You can follow the progress on http://www.shenlanguage.org/total.htm http://www.shenlanguage.org/total.htm. All the money is being used to systematically upgrade stlib; instituting a series of monographs in computer science documenting the library. The first is in graph theory. Mark
- takeda 12y ago
  Here's a bit of context: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/qilang/HBBjtIxegFY/Wmv3Lh1IRwsJ https://groups.google.com/d/msg/qilang/HBBjtIxegFY/Wmv3Lh1IR...
barbudorojo 12y ago
There are versions of Shen in javascript, sbcl, ruby, java, python, scheme, clojure and haskell (http://www.shenlanguage.org/download_form.html http://www.shenlanguage.org/download_form.html) The basic idea is to construct a kernel with 40 functions in such a way that the language is easily portable. With those 40 functions Shen is like a mixture of Lisp, prolog and typep racket. I should like to see a version of Shen in Nim.
jordigh 12y ago
Oh, wow, functional programming without the oddities of Haskell syntax! I'm definitely intrigued. What's the current licensing situation? I would prefer a copyleft license, but if it already had a free license, I don't really care if it's similar to a BSD license or not. Edit: Ah, found it: http://www.shenlanguage.org/license.html http://www.shenlanguage.org/license.html Wow, this looks awful. It's a vanity license with language that is very unfamiliar to me. Can a license declare something to be legal or not, isn't that for judges to decide, not licenses? It has a bunch of weird clauses that I don't want to try to understand, and Wikipedia claims this is GPL-incompatible and non-free software. Yuck. Yeah, ok, I'm kinda interested in a free license now.
- barbudorojo 12y ago
  The current licensing doesn't has a name, the author states in the html page of the standard certain restrictions to fork the code, it has to pass some test, but those tests are not clearly defined and there are other restrictions that move people away from Shen. Choosing a BSD license solve the problem of giving a clear answer to the license of Shen and promotes cooperation.
- hga 12y ago
  The current license is a totally impossible custom one. It tries to say the same things at least 3 times each, resulting in an uninterpretable mess, with ambiguities decided by the author, and after his death a committee. E.g. he's stated that you cannot make public an unfinished implementation. There's also the minor detail that his promises pertaining to money are worthless if they prove to be inconvenient. The concept of the license is OK, the author wants a "Write Once, Run Anywhere" landscape where you can't break the spec and therefore other people's code, but the implementation is bad enough a lot of people including myself gave up on investing in the language and ecosystem.
  - barbudorojo 12y ago
    The author was looking for help to develop a minimal battery of tests that any new implementation should have to pass, but there were no voluntaries. Anyway, I think that becoming BSD can help to gather more souls.
doublec 12y ago
For those wondering about Shen, this Strange Loop talk gives a taste of it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMcRBdSdO_U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMcRBdSdO_U
jnbiche 12y ago
I've been extremely impressed by Shen, but have been holding off because of the license. I'll chip in a little and hope this pulls it toward BSD, at which point I'm willing to start investing in the infrastructure.
- barbudorojo 12y ago
  Thanks, now I feel I have done something useful posting here. (I have never bought any CS book or chip in any money to any project).
- codygman 12y ago
  Yeah, a bsd-licensed Shen is something I'd be interested in as well.
hga 12y ago
The BSD total has been achieved: https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/qilang/e4-PcL2K2WQ https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/qilang/e4-PcL2... tl;dr: in a couple of weeks version 17 will be released with the usual bug fixes etc. and BSD licensed.

32 points by barbudorojo 12y ago

The objective to convert Shen to BSD is very near, a pledge of 300 pounds is needed: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/qilang/fZZvPzCTVyA

sp332 12y ago

What is this?

arto 12y ago
http://www.shenlanguage.org/ http://www.shenlanguage.org/ > Shen is a portable functional programming language that offers pattern matching, lambda calculus consistency, macros, optional lazy evaluation, static type checking, an integrated fully functional Prolog, and an inbuilt compiler-compiler. > Shen has one of the most powerful type systems within functional programming. Shen runs under a reduced instruction Lisp and is designed for portability. The word ‘Shen’ is Chinese for 'spirit' and our motto reflects our desire to liberate our work to live under many platforms.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

arto 12y ago

http://www.shenlanguage.org/shenbsd.htm http://www.shenlanguage.org/shenbsd.htm

gue5t 12y ago

Why is money needed to achieve this licensing goal?

takeda 12y ago
I just looked at older conversations on the mailing list, I think this provides a bit of explanation: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/qilang/HBBjtIxegFY/Wmv3Lh1IRwsJ https://groups.google.com/d/msg/qilang/HBBjtIxegFY/Wmv3Lh1IR...
- jgh 12y ago
  Why does he need a lawyer to do a BSD license?
  - hga 12y ago
    He used an estimate of what it would take to have a lawyer draft a new licence to price simply changing it to BSD.
- bachmeier 12y ago
  So he wants a certain amount of money, essentially a payment to change the license. I don't understand the connection to hiring a lawyer but whatever... Tarver claims the current license is more open than the GPL. I don't understand the basis for that claim.

listic 12y ago

They have a committee with the chairman, vice-chairman and deputy vice-chairman; but does anyone actually use this language?

briandear 12y ago

Why does it cost money to get BSD licensed? I am not sure -- who actually gets the money from this drive? For fundraising, there certainly isn't a lot of information. I am very ignorant about this particular domain, so please excuse me!

barbudorojo 12y ago
I just copied a post from the Shen group: I've now begun collecting on the pledges. £2583.52 was pledged, but I'll honour my side as soon as I've collected £2500, which should be reached if people keep to their pledges. You can follow the progress on http://www.shenlanguage.org/total.htm http://www.shenlanguage.org/total.htm. All the money is being used to systematically upgrade stlib; instituting a series of monographs in computer science documenting the library. The first is in graph theory. Mark
takeda 12y ago
Here's a bit of context: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/qilang/HBBjtIxegFY/Wmv3Lh1IRwsJ https://groups.google.com/d/msg/qilang/HBBjtIxegFY/Wmv3Lh1IR...

barbudorojo 12y ago

There are versions of Shen in javascript, sbcl, ruby, java, python, scheme, clojure and haskell (http://www.shenlanguage.org/download_form.html http://www.shenlanguage.org/download_form.html) The basic idea is to construct a kernel with 40 functions in such a way that the language is easily portable. With those 40 functions Shen is like a mixture of Lisp, prolog and typep racket. I should like to see a version of Shen in Nim.

jordigh 12y ago

Oh, wow, functional programming without the oddities of Haskell syntax! I'm definitely intrigued. What's the current licensing situation? I would prefer a copyleft license, but if it already had a free license, I don't really care if it's similar to a BSD license or not. Edit: Ah, found it: http://www.shenlanguage.org/license.html http://www.shenlanguage.org/license.html Wow, this looks awful. It's a vanity license with language that is very unfamiliar to me. Can a license declare something to be legal or not, isn't that for judges to decide, not licenses? It has a bunch of weird clauses that I don't want to try to understand, and Wikipedia claims this is GPL-incompatible and non-free software. Yuck. Yeah, ok, I'm kinda interested in a free license now.

barbudorojo 12y ago
The current licensing doesn't has a name, the author states in the html page of the standard certain restrictions to fork the code, it has to pass some test, but those tests are not clearly defined and there are other restrictions that move people away from Shen. Choosing a BSD license solve the problem of giving a clear answer to the license of Shen and promotes cooperation.
hga 12y ago
The current license is a totally impossible custom one. It tries to say the same things at least 3 times each, resulting in an uninterpretable mess, with ambiguities decided by the author, and after his death a committee. E.g. he's stated that you cannot make public an unfinished implementation. There's also the minor detail that his promises pertaining to money are worthless if they prove to be inconvenient. The concept of the license is OK, the author wants a "Write Once, Run Anywhere" landscape where you can't break the spec and therefore other people's code, but the implementation is bad enough a lot of people including myself gave up on investing in the language and ecosystem.
- barbudorojo 12y ago
  The author was looking for help to develop a minimal battery of tests that any new implementation should have to pass, but there were no voluntaries. Anyway, I think that becoming BSD can help to gather more souls.

doublec 12y ago

For those wondering about Shen, this Strange Loop talk gives a taste of it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMcRBdSdO_U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMcRBdSdO_U

jnbiche 12y ago

I've been extremely impressed by Shen, but have been holding off because of the license. I'll chip in a little and hope this pulls it toward BSD, at which point I'm willing to start investing in the infrastructure.

barbudorojo 12y ago
Thanks, now I feel I have done something useful posting here. (I have never bought any CS book or chip in any money to any project).
codygman 12y ago
Yeah, a bsd-licensed Shen is something I'd be interested in as well.

hga 12y ago

The BSD total has been achieved: https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/qilang/e4-PcL2K2WQ https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!topic/qilang/e4-PcL2... tl;dr: in a couple of weeks version 17 will be released with the usual bug fixes etc. and BSD licensed.