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So, for those of is trying to start companies, how do you create an effective work-place environment? It's obvious from articles like this that you can't just

So, for those of is trying to start companies, how do you create an effective work-place environment? It's obvious from articles like this that you can't just dump a bunch of cash on slides and ping-pong tables, but it also isn't fesable (for most companies) to have 4-hour workdays. How can you balance the need for breaks with budget concerns? I'd really appreciate somebody with experience in the area weighing in.

ryan90 12y ago
Speaking from experienced (startup that's made 3 hires, going on our 4th), is you have to find "culture fits". People who share your appetite for work, who want to be a part of the vision, and that you can stand spending a lot of time with. We'll never win the perk war, but we are the only company just like us, and look very hard for the people who will get along with us.
- VexXtreme 12y ago
  I think you'll find that most people will "get along" with you just fine if you're a decent person, pay well and don't ask them to sacrifice a too big portion of their life. If they're competent and willing to work hard, everything else is noise and bullshit.
  - ryan90 12y ago
    Yes working hard and competent is the bulk of it. But we've met people like that we simply wouldn't bond with. Culture fit is hugely important, and if you hire a cultural misfit, it's much more difficult to fire them.
    - VexXtreme 12y ago
      Since the concept of "culture" is so vague and no one using it seems to be able to describe what exact set of criteria it represents, it appears to be whatever a hiring manager wants it to be. If you don't like someone's skin color, religion, cultural background, the fact that they don't like drinking or going to team-building trips every weekend, or you just don't like the color of their shirt, it's easy to reject them on the grounds of not being a "culture fit". Who cares about their professional skillset when you're obviously looking for a paid buddy. Curb your hubris and start treating people like human beings. I've worked for a number of "world changing" startups managed by 20-something year olds like you and the fact that it always devolved into a high school popularity contest made me sick to my stomach.
- woah 12y ago
  I hope that their "appetite for work" matches your appetite for giving out equity. If not, you've just hired a bunch of people with bad judgement and no social life.
  - ryan90 12y ago
    We're pretty generous with equity. Nobody works themselves to death, but we all push ourselves to get as much done as possible. If you want to be a founder, or early stage employee, you're going to have to work harder than the average 9-5er.
    - woah 12y ago
      Totally. Sounds respectable then. I just think that founders need to be very clear that the work vs reward relationship is going to be very different for them vs their employees, unless the employees have very significant equity approaching cofounder levels.
7Figures2Commas 12y ago
1. Hire qualified people regardless of where they came from and what they look like. In other words, be careful about falling into the "culture fit" trap that is responsible for a lot of the "I can't find candidates" complaints at startups. Diversity is healthy, and when you don't have a homogenous workforce, you're far less likely to end up with a bunch of 20-something "go-getters" who aren't yet wise enough to understand that output (work product) matters way more than input (hours worked). 2. Be careful about perks that have social implications and/or require employees to spend non-work time at work or with co-workers. A lot of the perks startups offer today, such as catered lunches/dinners and frequent group outings, send the message that you're trying to build a family, not a company. Many people have a life outside of work and these "perks" ask/require employees to give up what should be their free time. 3. Don't ignore management. A lot of startups eschew basic management practices, mistaking management for bureaucracy. The reality, however, is that a healthy dose of competent management is one of the best ways to promote productivity and avoid time-wasting dysfunction.
- bane 12y ago
  Yes please, culture fits are terrible ways to hire. You end up with lots of carbon copy version of what you wish you were. It usually degenerates into a bunch of hip young guys with lots of hair product and eclectic playlists. Build for diversity and you'll get surprisingly awesome skillsets on your team.
- bravo22 12y ago
  I might get downvoted for a reply that essentially says "this". But I strongly agree with everything you wrote. It has been my experience as well.
- VexXtreme 12y ago
  The whole "culture fit" concept is a direct result of corporate hubris. When a company mentions "culture", I don't walk, I run for my sanity.
  - ryan90 12y ago
    This statement couldn't be more wrong. Sure, corporations blow it out of proportion, but culture fit is so incredibly important.
pliny 12y ago
Either hire or avoid hiring 'culture fits' or do some amount of hiring 'culture fits' and some amount of avoiding them.
bane 12y ago
You can't. If you create a dynamic work environment with a constant influx of interesting problems to deal with, you lose the 8-by-5 solid employees with families you make up the framework of lots of successful companies. If you optimize for them, you can't get the spotlight rangers looking for hot problems to work on and recognition to go along with it. If you cater meals, some employees will want to skip out and take the salary bump instead, others don't mind losing out on pay for free weekly massages. Free beer? Non-drinkers feel left out. Game room? non-gamers hate it. Ping-pong, foosball, pool tables, free gym? You'll find somebody who it alienates. You have to pick what you want your company to be and commit to it. Where would you want to work? Build that. You'll find the right people to populate it, but try to keep it open to diversity of styles and ideas. Your best employee will probably be somebody completely different than you.
- cli 12y ago
  >If you create a dynamic work environment with a constant influx of interesting problems to deal with, you lose the 8-by-5 solid employees with families you make up the framework of lots of successful companies. I have no experience with these things. Why would this be the case? Is it because "a dynamic work environment with a constant influx of interesting problems to deal with" implies longer work hours?
  - bane 12y ago
    Lots of very solid, very good employees don't want to be rockstar programmers. They want you to define a desired end-state, give them a due date in a few months and leave them to solve it within the bounds of their regular job hours. If you think of an orchestra, it's like all the nameless people in the violin section vs. soloist. Optimizing for rockstars is like optimizing for soloists and that rarely works well. They're your steady soldiers, getting the job done at the pace you set. They can be used to set organizational tempo, long-term goals, etc. They're the ones who will work for your company for 10 years and not complain too much. But they also recognize that they're working to live, not living to work. Lots of startups want their employees to be obsesses with their work, they want all the employees to do things together, live together, marry each other, they want them to eat breakfast, lunch and dinner together. Lots of employees find that a huge turnoff, because frankly, they have better lives than what any startup can offer.
realrocker 12y ago
"Culture fit" is quite stupid. A fair amount of conflict is key to fiery technical debates and keeping out the complacency. Imagine if the parliament worked like that. Hire people who would own a responsibility and have the ability to execute it too. Everything else needs constant gardening.
- jobposter1234 12y ago
  In the several startups I've worked at / with, the technical debates were not an input to whether or not the company would succeed. A culture where everyone worked to the maximum of their ability and where the sum was greater than the parts, those places tended to do pretty well.

ryan90 12y ago

Speaking from experienced (startup that's made 3 hires, going on our 4th), is you have to find "culture fits". People who share your appetite for work, who want to be a part of the vision, and that you can stand spending a lot of time with. We'll never win the perk war, but we are the only company just like us, and look very hard for the people who will get along with us.

VexXtreme 12y ago
I think you'll find that most people will "get along" with you just fine if you're a decent person, pay well and don't ask them to sacrifice a too big portion of their life. If they're competent and willing to work hard, everything else is noise and bullshit.
- ryan90 12y ago
  Yes working hard and competent is the bulk of it. But we've met people like that we simply wouldn't bond with. Culture fit is hugely important, and if you hire a cultural misfit, it's much more difficult to fire them.
  - VexXtreme 12y ago
    Since the concept of "culture" is so vague and no one using it seems to be able to describe what exact set of criteria it represents, it appears to be whatever a hiring manager wants it to be. If you don't like someone's skin color, religion, cultural background, the fact that they don't like drinking or going to team-building trips every weekend, or you just don't like the color of their shirt, it's easy to reject them on the grounds of not being a "culture fit". Who cares about their professional skillset when you're obviously looking for a paid buddy. Curb your hubris and start treating people like human beings. I've worked for a number of "world changing" startups managed by 20-something year olds like you and the fact that it always devolved into a high school popularity contest made me sick to my stomach.
woah 12y ago
I hope that their "appetite for work" matches your appetite for giving out equity. If not, you've just hired a bunch of people with bad judgement and no social life.
- ryan90 12y ago
  We're pretty generous with equity. Nobody works themselves to death, but we all push ourselves to get as much done as possible. If you want to be a founder, or early stage employee, you're going to have to work harder than the average 9-5er.
  - woah 12y ago
    Totally. Sounds respectable then. I just think that founders need to be very clear that the work vs reward relationship is going to be very different for them vs their employees, unless the employees have very significant equity approaching cofounder levels.

7Figures2Commas 12y ago

1. Hire qualified people regardless of where they came from and what they look like. In other words, be careful about falling into the "culture fit" trap that is responsible for a lot of the "I can't find candidates" complaints at startups. Diversity is healthy, and when you don't have a homogenous workforce, you're far less likely to end up with a bunch of 20-something "go-getters" who aren't yet wise enough to understand that output (work product) matters way more than input (hours worked). 2. Be careful about perks that have social implications and/or require employees to spend non-work time at work or with co-workers. A lot of the perks startups offer today, such as catered lunches/dinners and frequent group outings, send the message that you're trying to build a family, not a company. Many people have a life outside of work and these "perks" ask/require employees to give up what should be their free time. 3. Don't ignore management. A lot of startups eschew basic management practices, mistaking management for bureaucracy. The reality, however, is that a healthy dose of competent management is one of the best ways to promote productivity and avoid time-wasting dysfunction.

bane 12y ago
Yes please, culture fits are terrible ways to hire. You end up with lots of carbon copy version of what you wish you were. It usually degenerates into a bunch of hip young guys with lots of hair product and eclectic playlists. Build for diversity and you'll get surprisingly awesome skillsets on your team.
bravo22 12y ago
I might get downvoted for a reply that essentially says "this". But I strongly agree with everything you wrote. It has been my experience as well.
VexXtreme 12y ago
The whole "culture fit" concept is a direct result of corporate hubris. When a company mentions "culture", I don't walk, I run for my sanity.
- ryan90 12y ago
  This statement couldn't be more wrong. Sure, corporations blow it out of proportion, but culture fit is so incredibly important.

pliny 12y ago

Either hire or avoid hiring 'culture fits' or do some amount of hiring 'culture fits' and some amount of avoiding them.

bane 12y ago

You can't. If you create a dynamic work environment with a constant influx of interesting problems to deal with, you lose the 8-by-5 solid employees with families you make up the framework of lots of successful companies. If you optimize for them, you can't get the spotlight rangers looking for hot problems to work on and recognition to go along with it. If you cater meals, some employees will want to skip out and take the salary bump instead, others don't mind losing out on pay for free weekly massages. Free beer? Non-drinkers feel left out. Game room? non-gamers hate it. Ping-pong, foosball, pool tables, free gym? You'll find somebody who it alienates. You have to pick what you want your company to be and commit to it. Where would you want to work? Build that. You'll find the right people to populate it, but try to keep it open to diversity of styles and ideas. Your best employee will probably be somebody completely different than you.

cli 12y ago
>If you create a dynamic work environment with a constant influx of interesting problems to deal with, you lose the 8-by-5 solid employees with families you make up the framework of lots of successful companies. I have no experience with these things. Why would this be the case? Is it because "a dynamic work environment with a constant influx of interesting problems to deal with" implies longer work hours?
- bane 12y ago
  Lots of very solid, very good employees don't want to be rockstar programmers. They want you to define a desired end-state, give them a due date in a few months and leave them to solve it within the bounds of their regular job hours. If you think of an orchestra, it's like all the nameless people in the violin section vs. soloist. Optimizing for rockstars is like optimizing for soloists and that rarely works well. They're your steady soldiers, getting the job done at the pace you set. They can be used to set organizational tempo, long-term goals, etc. They're the ones who will work for your company for 10 years and not complain too much. But they also recognize that they're working to live, not living to work. Lots of startups want their employees to be obsesses with their work, they want all the employees to do things together, live together, marry each other, they want them to eat breakfast, lunch and dinner together. Lots of employees find that a huge turnoff, because frankly, they have better lives than what any startup can offer.

realrocker 12y ago

"Culture fit" is quite stupid. A fair amount of conflict is key to fiery technical debates and keeping out the complacency. Imagine if the parliament worked like that. Hire people who would own a responsibility and have the ability to execute it too. Everything else needs constant gardening.

jobposter1234 12y ago
In the several startups I've worked at / with, the technical debates were not an input to whether or not the company would succeed. A culture where everyone worked to the maximum of their ability and where the sum was greater than the parts, those places tended to do pretty well.