6 ms·

Did PostgreSQL just kill MongoDB?

by codeaken 12y ago

organsnyder 12y ago
No.
- bonif 12y ago
  You're right, lots of amateur-hour developers might still be using mongodb
  - organsnyder 12y ago
    Yep. MySQL isn't dead yet, either. :-) I'm not familiar enough with MongoDB (or Postgres 9.4) to really answer the original question. My guess is that Mongo will still be applicable to certain use-cases, but—like you mention—the majority of users will be those who really don't understand the technologies and their strengths/weaknesses.
jpgvm 12y ago
MongoDB has been dead for a long time.
threeseed 12y ago
Only someone with a poor understanding of the industry would think that. Mongo is killing it in the enterprise and their partnerships with Teradata et al is only going to cement their position for likely decades to come. Plus MongoDB's pluggable engine approach will definitely breath some new life into it.
- nemo44x 12y ago
  This is exactly right. I can't believe how snide and ignorant a few of the commenters are (except I can because it's the same folks with the same FUD every time). MongoDB isn't standing still and it is getting better and better with every release. Not to mention there are 100's of massive projects running on MongoDB with success. Something about MongoDB really drives the Postgres community (and certain NoSQL DB fans) nuts and I'm guessing it's that MongoDB is eating their lunch, growing faster than them, is gaining popularity faster, etc. Keep in mind MongoDB is many years younger too and is maturing more quickly now. Plus, developers absolutely love working with it. It's a tool like any other and still has issues but I'm afraid some here are dancing on its grave well before it has even shown signs of letting up on its growth.
  - tensor 12y ago
    People here have a problem with it because it is a technically poor solution, even among nosql databases. The main problems are: 1. Historically mongodb was distributed with completely unsafe defaults. It was insane to use it with any data you actually cared about. Once you toggle on the safety features most of the vaunted performance goes away. 2. It doesn't actually scale that well despite claims that it does. The fact that there are better nosql solutions just make people further annoyed. It's basically the cargo cult behaviour of mongodb proponents that people don't like.
    - threeseed 12y ago
      You know what I don't like. People who complain about technologies they've never used. 1. This was NEVER an issue for 99.999% of people. The drivers all had the default set to FSYNC_SAFE. 2. It DOES scale the way it claims. It just doesn't have unlimited scalability and guess what no product does.
      - angrybits 12y ago
        1. So then the problem they had was they didn't get the performance they expected since the benchmarks were done with different settings to juice the numbers? There is no upside to arguing this one, Mongo loses one way or the other. Can't play them both. 2. I haven't seen anyone say that Mongo scales in an unlimited fashion. You said that. I think what they might be saying is that it doesn't scale well enough to pay for the trade-offs from using it. If you aren't running a system that can be composed of somewhat-interrelated documents, you're gonna have a bad time.
      - justrudd 12y ago
        All the drivers default to FSYNC_SAFE? Maybe the Java one didn't get the memo. It's set to ACKNOWLEDGED by default. https://github.com/mongodb/mongo-java-driver/blob/master/src/main/com/mongodb/MongoClientOptions.java#L56 https://github.com/mongodb/mongo-java-driver/blob/master/src... I like Mongo. And until I really learned about it, I got bitten by the default a few times. Personally I use REPLICA_ACKNOWLEDGED when running in a cluster and FSYNC when writing to a single node.
chx 12y ago
I doubt. It seems that MongoDB still has a much richer query syntax than jsonb. Disclaimer: I consult for MongoDB Inc.

Did PostgreSQL just kill MongoDB?

organsnyder 12y ago

No.

bonif 12y ago
You're right, lots of amateur-hour developers might still be using mongodb
- organsnyder 12y ago
  Yep. MySQL isn't dead yet, either. :-) I'm not familiar enough with MongoDB (or Postgres 9.4) to really answer the original question. My guess is that Mongo will still be applicable to certain use-cases, but—like you mention—the majority of users will be those who really don't understand the technologies and their strengths/weaknesses.

jpgvm 12y ago

MongoDB has been dead for a long time.

threeseed 12y ago

Only someone with a poor understanding of the industry would think that. Mongo is killing it in the enterprise and their partnerships with Teradata et al is only going to cement their position for likely decades to come. Plus MongoDB's pluggable engine approach will definitely breath some new life into it.

nemo44x 12y ago
This is exactly right. I can't believe how snide and ignorant a few of the commenters are (except I can because it's the same folks with the same FUD every time). MongoDB isn't standing still and it is getting better and better with every release. Not to mention there are 100's of massive projects running on MongoDB with success. Something about MongoDB really drives the Postgres community (and certain NoSQL DB fans) nuts and I'm guessing it's that MongoDB is eating their lunch, growing faster than them, is gaining popularity faster, etc. Keep in mind MongoDB is many years younger too and is maturing more quickly now. Plus, developers absolutely love working with it. It's a tool like any other and still has issues but I'm afraid some here are dancing on its grave well before it has even shown signs of letting up on its growth.
- tensor 12y ago
  People here have a problem with it because it is a technically poor solution, even among nosql databases. The main problems are: 1. Historically mongodb was distributed with completely unsafe defaults. It was insane to use it with any data you actually cared about. Once you toggle on the safety features most of the vaunted performance goes away. 2. It doesn't actually scale that well despite claims that it does. The fact that there are better nosql solutions just make people further annoyed. It's basically the cargo cult behaviour of mongodb proponents that people don't like.
  - threeseed 12y ago
    You know what I don't like. People who complain about technologies they've never used. 1. This was NEVER an issue for 99.999% of people. The drivers all had the default set to FSYNC_SAFE. 2. It DOES scale the way it claims. It just doesn't have unlimited scalability and guess what no product does.
    - angrybits 12y ago
      1. So then the problem they had was they didn't get the performance they expected since the benchmarks were done with different settings to juice the numbers? There is no upside to arguing this one, Mongo loses one way or the other. Can't play them both. 2. I haven't seen anyone say that Mongo scales in an unlimited fashion. You said that. I think what they might be saying is that it doesn't scale well enough to pay for the trade-offs from using it. If you aren't running a system that can be composed of somewhat-interrelated documents, you're gonna have a bad time.
    - justrudd 12y ago
      All the drivers default to FSYNC_SAFE? Maybe the Java one didn't get the memo. It's set to ACKNOWLEDGED by default. https://github.com/mongodb/mongo-java-driver/blob/master/src/main/com/mongodb/MongoClientOptions.java#L56 https://github.com/mongodb/mongo-java-driver/blob/master/src... I like Mongo. And until I really learned about it, I got bitten by the default a few times. Personally I use REPLICA_ACKNOWLEDGED when running in a cluster and FSYNC when writing to a single node.

chx 12y ago

I doubt. It seems that MongoDB still has a much richer query syntax than jsonb. Disclaimer: I consult for MongoDB Inc.