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Why you should move your startup to a small fishing town

219 points by arthurquerou 12y ago

alimoeeny 12y ago
I am trying to figure out what kind of start up can benefit from this. In theory, you can be more focused if you and your team are isolated. Maybe it is easier to answer this question: What kind of start ups will not benefit from this? I'd say any startup that is passed the very first stages of product development, and needs to be talking to users, and investors and media and other businesses ... Just thinking out loud.
mplewis 12y ago
Apparently their justification is "Because it's quiet and weird." So, when you choose to establish a new business, move to the next hipster city that no one's heard of. For... reasons.
- yallahaline 12y ago
  :)
- fizwhiz 12y ago
  Seems like the hipster solitude didn't work wonders for their proofreading: I stumbled upon http://www.thebluehouse.io/month-long-program/ http://www.thebluehouse.io/month-long-program/ only to be greeted by: "HOW MUCH DOES IT COSTS?". I only went there because the main homepage took ~20 seconds to load. Perils of seclusion...
0xbadf00d 12y ago
I really enjoyed the piece - but I wonder if the arguments made work for a highly focused coding bender and perhaps not day-to-day business growth of a startup where meeting face to face with other founders, potential partners & mentors would be facilitated by being in a crowded city as opposed to a Senegalese beach?
- yallahaline 12y ago
  It depends what stage you're in, and what is your product. If your doing a 100% online product, it doesn't change a thing. Skype works great for partners, but going in person once in a while where your partners is always better. (Thank god for cheap airplane fares)
aluhut 12y ago
...and if you are really successful: YOU'LL GENTRIFICATE THE TOWN A win for everybody...kind of.
atmosx 12y ago
Hm, sorry but ages of experience show that what mostly works is the other way around: You want to be a big city because you can find clients (users), meet people (e.g. possible investors) and generally speaking do any sort of networking that would be otherwise impossible. The internet is what it is, but you can never match the face-to-face relationship with an online approach. I totally understand that this is a dream-like situation: You make a good amount of money, doing what you like in a remote island where the sun shines and the food is always tasty (yes I'm from Greece...) but if your business can't be done 100% online, which is almost never the case, then you need offices in a big city. Then you need to visit and control these offices, etc.
- yallahaline 12y ago
  I agree. More and more often you see people choosing a mix of both. Living in a big city when their product requires it, going abroad when they need more focus, or when their in a development stage that enables it. You don't have to be in the same place all the time anymore :)
  - atmosx 12y ago
    A mix of both is optimal IMHO and even somewhat dream-like situation but today (more than ever before) it IS possible.
  - tluyben2 12y ago
    Yep, I live deep in the mountains and travel to cities when I need to. Works well. Better than anything I did before anyway. It also gives a good perspective on what happens when you fail; nothing.
- eddieroger 12y ago
  Couldn't agree with this more. I worked for a startup-turned-recent-exit, and despite their big growth after a few years, if you go back and look at the first hundred customers or so, they were nearly all locals in the non-Silicon-Valley city the company was formed in, from other small shops to some of the bigger companies. Unless your product is niche to small fishing companies, this advice may not be the best.
binarymax 12y ago
For those of you in the UK/London - and want somewhere cheap and amazing to code in your own back yard, I highly recommend Hastings/St Leonards. It is (or was) a 'small fishing village' that retains a fascinating history. 1.5 hours from London, and 1 hour from Brighton, 1/3 the cost of flats and working space, good connection speeds, good coffee. If you come down to check it out, look me up and I'll buy you a pint. --EDIT-- Some nice tempting rental listings for you :) http://www.hastingsobserver.co.uk/property/search?listingStatus=rent&area=TN37&pricePer=month&propertyType=flats&minimumBeds=2 http://www.hastingsobserver.co.uk/property/search?listingSta...
- kieranajp 12y ago
  We're in Canterbury and it's very much the same situation here. Small, historical, charming town, 1 hour from London on HS1, and large enough that we have a good few local clients.
- wyclif 12y ago
  Hastings is also less than 18mi (or so) from the Long Man of Wilmington. Inspiration via hill figure? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Man_of_Wilmington http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Man_of_Wilmington
  - dghf 12y ago
    If that's the criterion, then move to Weymouth: it's less than 17 miles from the Cerne Abbas Giant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerne_Abbas_Giant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerne_Abbas_Giant
- lamby 12y ago
  Looks like nice cycling around there too...
- arethuza 12y ago
  I can recommend my home village in North East Scotland for everything apart from convenient access to London. Not sure about internet speeds or whether they have coffee yet. But certainly pretty, peaceful, cheap property, great scenery and fairly convenient for the Cairngorms for climbing/skiing: http://www.portknockiewebsite.co.uk/ http://www.portknockiewebsite.co.uk/ For a bit of history, here is a page describing the loss of my great-grandfathers boat the Evangeline with all hands: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/pirie/history/PFWv1-o/ui26.htm http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/pirie/history/PFWv1-o/ui26.htm [I traced my ancestry recently and its a bit of a shock to realise that most of my male ancestors for about 300 years had a connection of one kind or another with the fishing industry].
melling 12y ago
First of all, the guy is selling startup space in a small fishing town. Second, is there any evidence to support his case? How many successful startups began in idyllic locations?
- jonnym1ller 12y ago
  We built the v1.0 of our startup from Taghazout (we lived there for 10 months) so it's definitely possible ;)
- yallahaline 12y ago
  Hey, I'm the writer :) We actually decided to open this space after meeting a lot of cool startups who did. In this village we had TechStar Seattle and Startup Chile alumi Maptia and media darling Chui. And there are more around the world. Check out NomadList, and Levels.io
  - malcol 12y ago
    Also check http://teleport.org http://teleport.org to compare locations. They have not launched global yet, but they probably will soon...
- lotsofmangos 12y ago
  Lots of British game companies. You can find world class game development studios scattered more or less at random throughout the UK landscape.
  - arbuge 12y ago
    Might work better in the UK than the USA. Average fishing town in the UK is closer to a big city than the average fishing town in the USA.
    - lotsofmangos 12y ago
      I think it works for industries where things are tightly project based with sizable periods of downtime. It is a cliche in the music industry to have a studio in the middle of nowhere in which to try and focus, and I don't see why this couldn't work elsewhere. There is also no reason not to have an in-town office and a larger out of town campus. Might even work out cheaper than an in-town office big enough for everybody.
ianpri 12y ago
Not sure I can really agree with much in this article, which seems to contradict itself (get more focused by not doing A and B, instead use your spare time for X and Y) and ignores that fact that getting close to your target audience and understanding their pain points isn't really going to happen if your sitting under an umbrella in Senegal.
- yallahaline 12y ago
  It's not a one size fits all situation. Depends on your product (online/offline), on the stage your product is at, etc. The good thing is you can alternate being in big tech hub, isolating yourself in small village, challenging yourself in a city you don't know etc
  - ianpri 12y ago
    I agree that short breaks away from the "norm" is good, but this isn't really unique to startups - i'd wager that you could gain the same benefits by just taking a vacation than trying to relocate your startup + staff every X months.
izolate 12y ago
I live in London and I love the rain & grey skies. I cycle 15 minutes to work, but sometimes take public transport too. I feel plenty productive in this city, and if I were to start my own business, I'd have no problems being here. I think it really depends on who you are, not where you are.
- ciupicri 12y ago
  I don't know how can you love cycling in the rain, considering that the bike needs cleaning afterwards.
  - kaybe 12y ago
    For short city trips, you want to have an old cheap outdoor bike (otherwise it might get stolen anyway). I don't see why you have to clean those. (I clean my bike once every 6 months, tops, and I ride it every day. The dirt is from the dirt or forest tracks I have to cross once in a while.)
    - ciupicri 12y ago
      Not here in Bucharest. There's some mud on the streets and on my bike too. Though I admit I haven't cleaned it up too much yet :-D
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - disputin 12y ago
    Cycling in the rain in the city your tyres can slip on oil - unpleasant results even at starting speed. The oily puddles also stain clothes, which probably aren't cycling gear on a short 15 minute ride. My last job was a Chiswick to Tower Hill ride, gear up and get dirty, but the worst part was the state of the toilets we had to change in.
- amsika 12y ago
  I live in Paris, and love it (the rain, the cycle, same thing here), but I really enjoy traveling when I, or the product need to.
noelwelsh 12y ago
Sounds nice and fun for a short break. I think the copy needs some work though, which might relate into tweaking how they target their market. For instance: "Getting far away from your family" <=== If you have a family, that's not how it works. You signed up for the responsibility.
- VLM 12y ago
  Being as charitable as possible, I read it more as "move out of moms basement at 25" than "abandon your wife and children"
- cpwright 12y ago
  I'll further that as, I read this something like "Get away from your family, because they are a distraction"; but you have time for "surfing and yoga", because that lets you decompress. Seems totally contradictory to me; as if it is somehow OK to be distracted by your family, but if its yoga then somehow it is all good.
zecg 12y ago
They seem to be selling a dystopia: "Getting far away from your family, your friends, [...] Living close to the beach, and surfing or doing yoga, also helps decompressing after work, and avoiding burnout, and therefore staying productive"
- ctdonath 12y ago
  They also overlook the harsh conditions most [near-]waterfront properties suffer for prolonged periods. There's a reason non-oceangoing businesses aren't there. Wet cold, unmitigated storms (up to hurricanes), shifting waterlines, pounding waves, sketchy internet connections, delayed delivery/shipping times, debilitating heat, salt corrosion, etc. When it's good it's great, and when it's bad nobody but long-term born-and-die-there locals stay.
sdepablos 12y ago
All is perfect, until you need to hire more developers, and then find (almost) all of them live in big cites, and they're not willing to relocate to a place without theaters, bars, discos... probably a lot like the place the came from before living in the city ;)
guiomie 12y ago
For the prices: http://www.thebluehouse.io/month-long-program/ http://www.thebluehouse.io/month-long-program/ The white on yellow background isn't the best choice of colours. Having been to Essaouira, I can only imagine Taghazout more relaxing.
- sumnulu 12y ago
  If you miss, there is a (hidden) navigation menu at the top of the page. http://www.thebluehouse.io/ http://www.thebluehouse.io/ http://www.thebluehouse.io/month-long-program/ http://www.thebluehouse.io/month-long-program/ http://www.thebluehouse.io/projects/ http://www.thebluehouse.io/projects/ http://www.thebluehouse.io/blog/ http://www.thebluehouse.io/blog/ http://www.thebluehouse.io/apply-house/ http://www.thebluehouse.io/apply-house/
fergie 12y ago
Sounds more like a holiday camp
- banino 12y ago
  Hey Fergie. It's not our intention (I'm the cofounder) :) Our goal is to have people work as much as in their hometown, but get more done because they're in a better setting, and because when they take a break, it's a fucking amazing break.
steve-benjamins 12y ago
I'm a solo bootstrapped entrepreneur but I like working in offices with others— this is perfect for me. To me, this seems like more of a focussed co-working space abroad.
josefresco 12y ago
Hey I live in a small (former) fishing town! Except it's winter, 30 degrees and I'm inside staring at my computer screens and might as well be anywhere in the world. Yes I can stop work, and "go surfing" (in the right season), I can even stop working and visit the local town pier and see those quaint "fisherman" struggling to make a living -because let's be honest, not everyone can be a tech-ninja startup founder. If I wanted I could even crank the heat in my car, squint and make believe that it's actually a warm exotic beach in Europe but hey, at some point I gotta go back to the office, fire up that computer and get back to hacking. At the end of the day it doesn't matter where you are. If you need to "break out of the box" and travel a bit, go for it. But simply moving operations to somewhere foreign will not be the deciding factor in your success.
- onion2k 12y ago
  If all you're doing is hacking code then moving somewhere that lowers your burnrate as much as possible does seem like a good idea.
  - organsnyder 12y ago
    Only after you've tried to account for all of the intangibles, though. The right location can give you many benefits—workforce, networking opportunities, media access—that aren't available everywhere. Some of that can be done virtually, but in-person meetings still are much more memorable for many people. Also, if all your company is doing is "hacking code", then I doubt your company will be around for very long. All that being said, I do agree with the sentiment, and I think that the benefits of high-cost locales are probably not worth the increased cost of living. I definitely appreciate my Midwest mortgage payment.
    - handzhiev 12y ago
      "Some of that can be done virtually, but in-person meetings still are much more memorable for many people." But some don't ever do in-person meetings. There are many small companies who do business 100% online, don't need investors, local staff or anything like that. For this type of companies staying in the big city makes no sense. (Disclaimer: I live in the woods in a small mountain town)
frik 12y ago
Is Morocco a save place now? A relative was there to help in the United Nations peacekeeping mission, especially the southern part of Morocco "Western Sahara". United Nations peacekeeping mission is still ongoing: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:United_Nations_peacekeeping_missions.PNG http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:United_Nations_peacek... (blue region in north-west of Africa)
- tinco 12y ago
  Western Sahara is not near this town at all. There's some trouble with terrorists in Morocco, but terrorist attacks are not on small fishing towns, they would be in the big cities.
- scyllax 12y ago
  It's almost impossible to have a gun in Morocco then it's easy to assume that you are safer than in the US.
  - maaku 12y ago
    That statement makes no sense. You know it is possible to have violence without guns, right?
    - scyllax 12y ago
      The thing that I'm pointing to is that there is more crime in the US than Morocco.
tinco 12y ago
Where are the pictures of the lodgings? It sounds very interesting, but it's also rather expensive. I've never been to Morocco, but from what I've heard I bet it's possible to sleep in a four star hotel and eat every meal in a restaurant for under 500 euro per week. Of course you are offering extras like being networked in with the other residents, and you are marketing to Europeans so it's not crazy to charge this amount, but it would be nice if you could have some more details and evidence on what you are offering.
- banino 12y ago
  Hey Tinco, I'm one of the cofounders. Morocco is no South East Asia. A 5 star hotel is expensive in Morocco. Morocco can be really cheap if you go to a small secluded village in the mountains or in a sketchy town, on the coastside, it's whole other story. We'll upload the pictures as soon as the constructions are over! But, believe me it's going to be great (you can checkout our pinterest to see what we're going for)
  - CalRobert 12y ago
    Spending money which will eventually support a government that throws gay people in jail is probably less than ideal for a lot of people as well.
- metra 12y ago
  Just got back from 5 weeks in Morocco, 2 of which were in Taghazout. My girlfriend and I were living very, very simply -- shared bathroom, toilet didn't have a tank, no meals included, internet only in the restaurant downstairs -- but we were paying 10 euros a night, each. You can actually see the place in the pictures they've put up, it was very beautiful, right on the beach. There was a surf hostel that we also stayed in but it was more expensive (15 euros a night) for bunk beds but it had internet, good bathrooms and showers, breakfast included. Morocco's a bargainers paradise. If you haggle you can get the prices down. It's the offseason now. Out of all the places we visited (Taghazout, Sidi Ifni, Mirleft, Agadir, Ouarzazate, Tinghir, Boulemane, Merzouga, Chefchaouen, Marrakesh), for a total of 2 people, we would average around 20 euros a night, sometimes paying 10 euros and sometimes 30. Of course, we weren't looking for all the bells and whistles, just a clean bed for the night. Sometimes we got just that, sometimes we got a luxury suite for 20 euros cause it's the offseason. The big cities were indeed surprisingly more expensive. But nothing about Morocco is sketchy -- the hasslers are annoying but I never once felt threatened (it was also always the 2 of us). The coast is beautiful and you should explore beyond Taghazout -- Essaouira and Sidi Ifni if you can.
santoriv 12y ago
Well, I think this strategy might work if you want to keep your burn rate unbelievably low while you are writing v 1.0. But to be honest 300 Euro per week for space is actually not optimal. I've been in the mountains of Vietnam for the last year and rent has been between $50 and $125 per month, which has made it possible for me to be unemployed for a long time and write v1.0 of my startup's app. I think that Southeast Asia is a pretty ideal location if you want to go the bootstrapping route - the people are super nice and friendly and everything is unbelievably cheap. You really can get a lot done. The serious downside is that you are not really connected to the tech scene - you can't really meet that many hackers (i.e. potential cofounders) and of course there is zero funding. And when you talk to tech folks stateside you feel pretty disconnected when you in a different part of the world. Nevertheless I think it's a viable way to go solo.
- banino 12y ago
  Hey! It's also pretty far from Europe, Morocco is 3hrs away from Paris and London. And a lot of people simply don't want to live in Asia, they'd rather go to Africa.
- WhitneyLand 12y ago
  What is the fastest Internet connection you can get while paying $125/month for rent?
  - santoriv 12y ago
    12 mbps for ~$10 a month. Arguably that's burst and in the evening I can't Skype effectively because of the congestion. But it's good enough for what I'm working on.
    - codyb 12y ago
      Wow $50 - $125 a month? Sounds like a great way to set up for six months and just have a crash pad to explore Asia with for a while. Any pointers on visas?
blueskin_ 12y ago
Sounds like a great way to selfdestruct. "Hey, guess what, you have to move to $middleofnowhere." "Hey, guess what, I quit." Exactly how the conversation would go if it ever happened to me. What would happen in such a situation is the good employees would quit because they wouldn't want to compromise their salary, marketability, and ability to take a new job, while the dead weight would go with it because it's still easier than finding a new job if they can build up enough job security in their current one. Also interesting that someone thinks you should do it... who just happens to own office space in said location. Cities work because there is the infrastructure and the talent pool. Going to the middle of nowhere might save a pittance on salary, but when people inevitably quit, good luck replacing them without spending even more on moving other people there.
- lewaldman 12y ago
  Hey Mate, Think Remote! :) The only place where I worked on the last 8 years that I couldn't work remotely is not the kind of place that I would work anymore. For me these days, if a company doesn't have some remote policy in place (I mean... not full remote, nor once per week, but the option to, sporadically, work from home on a sick day or to be able to do some coding/admin stuff on the road) it automatically flares a red flag as a place that would not be a magical place where I could do the best that I can. If the place doesn't have the remote-some-times flexibility it's probably a place with bad management practices and an out-dated culture. Same thing regarding talent pool... Why on earth do you need to smell the emanating creative fumes of your employees every day from across the hall? :P
  - blueskin_ 12y ago
    Remote is nice when it works, but it doesn't always or for every company. Where I work right now, for example, people work remotely but still have required days in the office for meetings etc., while I couldn't work remotely as too much of what I do is physical work with networks and servers that wouldn't be possible remotely - those are the people that will be hit with "you have to move" and so quit, especially since chances are that in the middle of nowhere, there will be few to no career opportunities for them.
- 12y ago
cowsandmilk 12y ago
I have a friend who works for Power Engineers. The founders built the company in Hailey, Idaho, near the Sun Valley Ski Resort. They are now a massive company with 39 US Offices and 4 international offices. I've never been sure if the lesson is that you can start a company in the middle of nowhere, or if you need to have local offices to serve your customers. The headquarters is still in Hailey, ID, in the middle of nowhere, but they clearly thought they needed offices elsewhere to add ~1 additional office per year of the company.
n0body 12y ago
i'm not sure what this is, it's not that clear. it seems to be an advert for a guest house that's tailored to people building startups? here's a hint, if you're building a start up you want to be successful, moving somewhere to go surfing isn't probably the best thing to do and it doesn't seem that cheap either tbh. not forgetting remoteness is a massive problem, i worked somewhere remote, it was awful. they had surfing. i moved back to the city after 6 months, i've never been happier. that said, i hope it works for you, i wish i could live at the beach in a warm country
mnml_ 12y ago
http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Hackbase http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Hackbase
boracay 12y ago
Hopefully the name of that boat isn't a bad omen ;) http://www.thebluehouse.io/#surrounded-with-the-best http://www.thebluehouse.io/#surrounded-with-the-best (scroll up)
benbristow 12y ago
I live in Grimsby (UK). You don't want to come here. It's depressing, boring, smelly and awful. I'd prefer to be in somewhere like London than here. The only good thing is that we have decent broadband.
- dsq 12y ago
  Really? The Elton John & Bernie Taupin song made it sound wonderful!
linkeex 12y ago
This might be the most dotcom-ish post I've read since joining HackerNews. Don't get me wrong on this but even the argumentation is clearly wrong here: > work in places so magical they could be on the cover of travel magazines > under an umbrella on a beach in Senegal, in cafes in old Arab medinas, and more > Adventurous Startups. and then > YOU’LL BE MORE FOCUSED I've tried this myself and my experience was that working abroad is totally doable but by no means did I achieve focusing more on my work. Instead I would pick any chance meeting new people and discover the new environment. Also: In my opinion everything comes down to networking, which is why a lonely beach in Marocco might not be the right place to start this...
- majditoumi 12y ago
  It's not for everyone clearly. When you actually spend more than a couple of weeks, you stop getting that need to discover and talk to people, and get to work super productively (one of the reason is: you can't wait to go back to enjoying the place). This solution works if you have a 100% online product, or if you opt to travel at the right stage for your startup (when you have had networked for now, when you're pivoting etc).
GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
May or may not be great while you're working, but what's gonna happen when the startup goes bust and there are literally zero other jobs there.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
hackerboos 12y ago
How do you deal with the red-tape? It looks like you need a working visa to work in Morocco.
netcan 12y ago
I think a lifestyle location could be a cool underdog hiring strategy, at elates if you accept that you all your hire will be relocation hires. IE, if you are wiling to pay big city salaries in a small town location, that could be attractive to some people. Not everyone and obviously if you have Google/Facebook hiring requirements it's not an option. But, if you need to hire 5-10 a year it might work. Not everyone will want it. But, the minority that do want it want it a lot. IE, imagine a couple with small kids from London comings for an interview to a nice location in Crete. Instead of a tiny London 2 bedroom, they can move into a nice cottage. They can save hours a day in commutes and get more cash into savings. That will appeal to some employees (or their wives/husbands). You can't say Crete is objectively better or worse than the London buzz. But, it is different in a way that will inevitably appeal to some. The problem is that it's hard not to adjust your salary expectations (as an employer) to local salaries and that just isn't compatible with relocation hiring. People don't relocate for a lower salary, even if cost of living is lower. I think the EU has a lot of these possibilities that are still under appreciated. If you think your main win/lose parameter is the quality of people you can hire, you should think creatively about how to win here. It's hard to win competing head-to-head.
- CalRobert 12y ago
  While I don't wish to imply I am the world's most amazing person, I think I'm reasonably competent. I moved precisely for lifestyle reasons to Dublin, Ireland, and quite like it. While the cost of living is relatively high by European standards, it's far, far, cheaper than the bay, or west L.A. for that matter. I mostly wanted to live in a dense, walkable, European city, and Dublin has exceeded expectations in that regard. I realize you probably weren't thinking of a European capital when you wrote it, but it does ring true that there are people for whom location is more important than maximum compensation.
dysoco 12y ago
I too live in a fishing town, yes, it's nice being a small town without any traffic or people on the street (except in Summer when we get tourists) but honestly I can't wait to move out. I can't get fast internet, power/internet goes down when it gets a bit windy or starts raining; and it rains quite a lot, making you really unproductive. Let's not talk about 3G/4G, we are lucky to have 3G on a good day. If I wanted to go to some conference or meetup I'd have to drive at least 4-5 hours since there's nothing here, and we don't have train or anything. Talking about leisure time, I like surfing, but that's only viable during the Summer, there's not much else to do here other than hanging out with other people; we are lucky to have a cinema, but some movies don't even make it here (I'm still waiting to watch Interstellar). This would be the perfect place for a lonely writer working on a novel, but definitely not for people like us, who need to be always connected and making the best use of technology possible. Disclaimer: I've never lived in a city, maybe I'll end up hating it, who knows?
- mr_luc 12y ago
  Just wanted to say that I lived in a small ecuadorean fishing village for 7 years, and my experience was the opposite ... but I'm not starting a startup! My internet was even more limited (EDGE), power went out sometimes (two power bricks were enough for my mac air, though, and the cell towers never went out, so I could make it through even a multi-day outage without losing internet!), and comfy fast wifi in a coffee shop was 40 minutes away (I'd schedule voice or video meetings on days I liked to go into town to buy things or eat at good restaurants). And surfing fast, big, tropical beach and point breaks ... well. I bought a house down there; I'm back in the states right now, because I came back and got married to a girl from my hometown. But we're heading to Ecuador again as soon as we can. :) But a startup? Hmm. I think I'd have been a good startup employee, but contracting was a better fit anyway since I really appreciated multi-month blocks without work.
- agentultra 12y ago
  You could be surrounded by thousands of people at any moment who all have headphones on and keep their gaze at a 45 degree angle towards the ground. You too can walk past homeless panhandlers asking for money and ignore them. You can hang out at hip dive-bars and pretend to be cool until the neighborhood gentrifies and you have to commute farther out to the next spot. You can sit next to the schizophrenic on the bus that went off of their meds and everyone does their best to pretend e is the hallucination and not a real person. You can go to events where every clique but your own is present. You can rub shoulders with everyone who wouldn't give a damn if they stepped on you for their next big opportunity. You can find loneliness anywhere. Being "always connected," I'm beginning to realize, is not always the optimal state. You lose the ability to focus, to consider the future, and form thoughts of your own. As Douglas Rushkoff suggests: we all live in the present. For better or worse this is the way things work... but I think it's rather amazing that we have the option to work on a terrace in a medina in some North African city if we want to. And yet so few of us, at the forefront of the technology that enables this lifestyle, take advantage of it -- even for temporary periods. There's something to be said about taking a few months away from the Valley to think for a while.
codingdave 12y ago
It would be more productive to just have a remote workforce, and let them live where they want. Some people might want small fishing towns, others will make different choices. The key is to let everyone do what works best for themselves.
jim_greco 12y ago
This seems like a really good option if you want to pretend to be building a startup: Come up with disruptive startup ideas while sitting on the beach, throwing house parties like in The Social Network, and drinking a beer with other people pretending to build a startup. It doesn't sound like a good option though if you want to actually build a startup: writing a lot of code, meeting with clients, hiring great people, etc.
- untog 12y ago
  I don't see how it would be a problem to write lots of code. Meet with clients, probably not. But not everyone has them. And investors are definitely an issue. But sitting down and knocking out a lot of code? Why not?
- banino 12y ago
  Agreed. TechStars alumni Maptia for instance build an awesome product in a surf town in Morocco, they worked like crazy, received a crazy amount of applications, grew their team there.
markbnj 12y ago
For years I though that the Internet would fuel re-ruralization because it allows people to work outside the limits of densely populated areas. I think I suffered from two errors in that assumption: first that many people other than me wanted to live and work in the boonies; and second that infrastructure in rural areas would catch up somehow. I think the trend toward urbanization makes perfect sense from an infrastructure perspective, and it makes a certain amount of sense that most people prefer to live with other people.
jdawg77 12y ago
Back in 2009, I moved from Silicon Valley (Cupertino, natch, home of...well, me, until I left - rumor is there's also another tech firm or two there, but those fruit guys well, you know). At the time, I had it all. Consulting firm was paying half the bills and the scalable, bootstrapped and profitable media business had hit north of six million visitors the month before the big move. New location: Maldives. Sun, sand and surf. Want to see dolphins? Top five in the world. Coral reefs? Some of the best. That underwater restaurant Tom Cruise stayed at on his honeymoon at Conrad Hilton, when it was the world's first? It's an amazing place, quite special - I hit it up in 2008 the year before we moved there. Unlike a lot of folks that move to random locations, or say Costa Rica, the first time I moved overseas with a startup (left the US to join a Costa Rican one), the Maldives trip was my second time. A few exceptions about my move: * Father-in-law was Vice President, of the country at the time (I left before he became president) * Then president was family by marriage; personally, I thought the guy was a sh!tty father when we went to the first daughter's birthday. Imho, both parents, regardless of how busy, should make time. Eg, when it was my older son's b-day, only the first lady showed. She was cool. The president was a bit uptight. Long story. Pros about moving to Maldives: * Any foreigner can get the "local," discount, like teachers, for example * The islands are amazing. Seriously. Try lounging on the beach where Madonna stayed...the resort owners is nice and well, the beach spectacular. They also have the largest array of solar panels privately owned in their region. * Fish is plentiful, fresh, and some of the very best tuna in the world. There are some amazing dishes. Cons: * Everything is imported and subject to a 100% tax * Capital island is 1 square mile...most densely populated city in the world per square meter * Internet situation is abysmal. I lack credibility here, as I have zero background in networking, but suffice to say after meeting multiple ministers of telecommunications, pitching the government to try to fix the situation AND lobbying after my father-in-law, at the time, was President of the Country...well, I know why in my home country, "Net neutrality," makes people confused. This article is too light, too shallow on details for those of us who've done the globe trotting thing and worked in multiple countries overseas.
- _almosnow 12y ago
  > A few exceptions about my move: * Father-in-law was Vice President, of the country at the time (I left before he became president) Hahaha, come on man, I'm pretty sure that if you're part of the ruling social class of any given country your life is defeinitely going to be much more enjoyable than if you aren't.
gct 12y ago
Terrible article, it basically boils down to hipster garbage. "Adventurous Startup", give me a break. We're such free, weird unencumbered souls lol! Eat pray love!
mgirdley 12y ago
Founders should choose the correct location that gives them the maximum possible advantage. If you're selling to the oil industry, build in Houston. Finance, NYC. And so on. Sometimes geography doesn't matter, so a small fishing town is just fine.
dodyg 12y ago
I am based in Cairo. Other than the rare revolutions, occasional bombings and frequent elevated security situations, it is a perfectly suitable place to try starting up your startup.
sre_ops 12y ago
Total rubbish. Small towns insulate one from other ideas and other people pidgin holing oneself.
DanielBMarkham 12y ago
I have to point out that: 1) Traditionally, HN has been about startups: what works, what doesn't work 2) This entire comment thread is reading like a tourism forum At some point, maybe 2-4 years ago, HN sublty starting moving from a board about how to make your startup to folks trying to pitch other folks on stuff to buy for your startup. It's the old thing about during the gold rush the gold miners didn't make all the money -- the guys selling pickaxes did. I don't say that to discount these folks. Hell if I know. Probably best place in the world for a startup. It's just every now and then HN gets especially bad about this. And it needs to be pointed out.
fiberloptic 12y ago
1.) this is a recruiting blurb from TBH. 2.) I want an unbiased opinion, this one doesn't address pros vs. cons. 3.) why would I want to smell fish all day?
mrfusion 12y ago
Are there any small fishing towns in the US?
- spydum 12y ago
  plenty along floridas cost, depending on your definition of small: jupiter, pine island, hudson beach.. pretty much take your pick along the coast, avoiding the major metro areas like Tampa/StPete/Clearwater/Miami/Jacksonville (all are more city than "town").
yc1010 12y ago
Thats all well and good but some of us have families and kids.
virtualwhys 12y ago
Looks appealing, right near Anchor Point, a world class surf spot. Was about to pull the trigger on a 3-4 month rental...until the price. 1,200 Euros/month in Morocco, really? During the fall and spring I pay 500 Euros per month for a 2 bedroom, 5 minute walk from the beach in Capbreton, France, an area with surf as good or better than anything in Morocco. I can appreciate, number 1, the safety (as I had all my gear stolen in Morocco a few years ago, passport included), and living with other tech heads, but in the end I just need a decent internet connection, a kitchen, and location in some interesting part of the world; the rest are nice-to-haves. Airbnb et al have totally destroyed the bargain rental market. From India, to Morocco, to Argentina, etc. formerly dirt cheap destinations now fetch luxury prices with often very modest accomodations in return. Best bet for the travelling coder is probably to just do a week rental via hose-you-inc and then search locally for rentals closer to market value (i.e. not 2-5X what the locals are paying). Now, it's a fantastic market for sellers, more power to them, if I had a place to sublet I'd be more than happy to fetch top dollar for some vanilla 1 bedroom apartment with a blender, hot plate, and clean sheets ;-) 2cents
codyb 12y ago
I'm not sure big cities are prohibitive here. Sure the subway can suck but in New York City I have access to surfing, beaches, more yoga studios (and dance, and martial arts, among a million other classes in languages, the culinary arts, and virtually any other topic you could choose) than anyone could possibly count, restaurants, museums, concerts, sporting events, scuba diving, sky diving, and anything else you could ever ask for. (And even the things you'd never think to ask for). I mean the list just goes on and on and on. Of course this is predicated on the assumption that you will take advantage of it (and have the money, interest, time, and energy to do so). However, that being said, the idea of waking up in my hut, and walking outside, doing a little yoga on the beach, and then setting up for a cup of coffee with some locals and hacking away in the sun does sound undeniably attractive. I'd kill for some more sun in my workplace. And just whose idea were these damned open offices anyways? I do enjoy the social interactions and yet there is always that nipping feeling that I'm interrupting someone else's zone while I do so, much as, often, people interrupt mine when they do.
imanaccount247 12y ago
I'm not so sure you should be trying to push "leave your family and friends behind" as an upside. You are just reminding people of an obvious downside, you aren't actually turning it into an upside.
Animats 12y ago
Well, if you're looking for a location like that, consider Pillar Point Harbor in California. There's a small industrial area with cheap space, 2-3 short blocks from the ocean. It's adjacent to Mavericks Beach, one of the world's great surfing spots. There's a small-boat harbor. Several riding stables. Some nightclubs. Decent restaurants. A small airport. Housing prices aren't too high. It's a half hour drive from there to Silicon Valley. 45 minutes to San Francisco. There's bus service to both places. 10 minutes to Half Moon Bay with supermarkets and hardware stores.
OscarPedroso 12y ago
You definitely want exposure to all types of resources and I find that being in a bigger city allows you do that. I'm currently a medium-sized fish in a small pond and it's still hard to find the right people that'll guide me along the way.
mariusandreiana 12y ago
Planning to do this. Any advice on how to meet people once you settled in a city? e.g. couchsurfing (request to go out for a tea)

219 points by arthurquerou 12y ago

I am trying to figure out what kind of start up can benefit from this. In theory, you can be more focused if you and your team are isolated. Maybe it is easier to answer this question: What kind of start ups will not benefit from this? I'd say any startup that is passed the very first stages of product development, and needs to be talking to users, and investors and media and other businesses ... Just thinking out loud.

mplewis 12y ago

Apparently their justification is "Because it's quiet and weird." So, when you choose to establish a new business, move to the next hipster city that no one's heard of. For... reasons.

yallahaline 12y ago
:)
fizwhiz 12y ago
Seems like the hipster solitude didn't work wonders for their proofreading: I stumbled upon http://www.thebluehouse.io/month-long-program/ http://www.thebluehouse.io/month-long-program/ only to be greeted by: "HOW MUCH DOES IT COSTS?". I only went there because the main homepage took ~20 seconds to load. Perils of seclusion...

0xbadf00d 12y ago

I really enjoyed the piece - but I wonder if the arguments made work for a highly focused coding bender and perhaps not day-to-day business growth of a startup where meeting face to face with other founders, potential partners & mentors would be facilitated by being in a crowded city as opposed to a Senegalese beach?

yallahaline 12y ago
It depends what stage you're in, and what is your product. If your doing a 100% online product, it doesn't change a thing. Skype works great for partners, but going in person once in a while where your partners is always better. (Thank god for cheap airplane fares)

aluhut 12y ago

...and if you are really successful: YOU'LL GENTRIFICATE THE TOWN A win for everybody...kind of.

atmosx 12y ago

Hm, sorry but ages of experience show that what mostly works is the other way around: You want to be a big city because you can find clients (users), meet people (e.g. possible investors) and generally speaking do any sort of networking that would be otherwise impossible. The internet is what it is, but you can never match the face-to-face relationship with an online approach. I totally understand that this is a dream-like situation: You make a good amount of money, doing what you like in a remote island where the sun shines and the food is always tasty (yes I'm from Greece...) but if your business can't be done 100% online, which is almost never the case, then you need offices in a big city. Then you need to visit and control these offices, etc.

yallahaline 12y ago
I agree. More and more often you see people choosing a mix of both. Living in a big city when their product requires it, going abroad when they need more focus, or when their in a development stage that enables it. You don't have to be in the same place all the time anymore :)
- atmosx 12y ago
  A mix of both is optimal IMHO and even somewhat dream-like situation but today (more than ever before) it IS possible.
- tluyben2 12y ago
  Yep, I live deep in the mountains and travel to cities when I need to. Works well. Better than anything I did before anyway. It also gives a good perspective on what happens when you fail; nothing.
eddieroger 12y ago
Couldn't agree with this more. I worked for a startup-turned-recent-exit, and despite their big growth after a few years, if you go back and look at the first hundred customers or so, they were nearly all locals in the non-Silicon-Valley city the company was formed in, from other small shops to some of the bigger companies. Unless your product is niche to small fishing companies, this advice may not be the best.

binarymax 12y ago

For those of you in the UK/London - and want somewhere cheap and amazing to code in your own back yard, I highly recommend Hastings/St Leonards. It is (or was) a 'small fishing village' that retains a fascinating history. 1.5 hours from London, and 1 hour from Brighton, 1/3 the cost of flats and working space, good connection speeds, good coffee. If you come down to check it out, look me up and I'll buy you a pint. --EDIT-- Some nice tempting rental listings for you :) http://www.hastingsobserver.co.uk/property/search?listingStatus=rent&area=TN37&pricePer=month&propertyType=flats&minimumBeds=2 http://www.hastingsobserver.co.uk/property/search?listingSta...

kieranajp 12y ago
We're in Canterbury and it's very much the same situation here. Small, historical, charming town, 1 hour from London on HS1, and large enough that we have a good few local clients.
wyclif 12y ago
Hastings is also less than 18mi (or so) from the Long Man of Wilmington. Inspiration via hill figure? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Man_of_Wilmington http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Man_of_Wilmington
- dghf 12y ago
  If that's the criterion, then move to Weymouth: it's less than 17 miles from the Cerne Abbas Giant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerne_Abbas_Giant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerne_Abbas_Giant
lamby 12y ago
Looks like nice cycling around there too...
arethuza 12y ago
I can recommend my home village in North East Scotland for everything apart from convenient access to London. Not sure about internet speeds or whether they have coffee yet. But certainly pretty, peaceful, cheap property, great scenery and fairly convenient for the Cairngorms for climbing/skiing: http://www.portknockiewebsite.co.uk/ http://www.portknockiewebsite.co.uk/ For a bit of history, here is a page describing the loss of my great-grandfathers boat the Evangeline with all hands: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/pirie/history/PFWv1-o/ui26.htm http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/pirie/history/PFWv1-o/ui26.htm [I traced my ancestry recently and its a bit of a shock to realise that most of my male ancestors for about 300 years had a connection of one kind or another with the fishing industry].

melling 12y ago

First of all, the guy is selling startup space in a small fishing town. Second, is there any evidence to support his case? How many successful startups began in idyllic locations?

jonnym1ller 12y ago
We built the v1.0 of our startup from Taghazout (we lived there for 10 months) so it's definitely possible ;)
yallahaline 12y ago
Hey, I'm the writer :) We actually decided to open this space after meeting a lot of cool startups who did. In this village we had TechStar Seattle and Startup Chile alumi Maptia and media darling Chui. And there are more around the world. Check out NomadList, and Levels.io
- malcol 12y ago
  Also check http://teleport.org http://teleport.org to compare locations. They have not launched global yet, but they probably will soon...
lotsofmangos 12y ago
Lots of British game companies. You can find world class game development studios scattered more or less at random throughout the UK landscape.
- arbuge 12y ago
  Might work better in the UK than the USA. Average fishing town in the UK is closer to a big city than the average fishing town in the USA.
  - lotsofmangos 12y ago
    I think it works for industries where things are tightly project based with sizable periods of downtime. It is a cliche in the music industry to have a studio in the middle of nowhere in which to try and focus, and I don't see why this couldn't work elsewhere. There is also no reason not to have an in-town office and a larger out of town campus. Might even work out cheaper than an in-town office big enough for everybody.

ianpri 12y ago

Not sure I can really agree with much in this article, which seems to contradict itself (get more focused by not doing A and B, instead use your spare time for X and Y) and ignores that fact that getting close to your target audience and understanding their pain points isn't really going to happen if your sitting under an umbrella in Senegal.

yallahaline 12y ago
It's not a one size fits all situation. Depends on your product (online/offline), on the stage your product is at, etc. The good thing is you can alternate being in big tech hub, isolating yourself in small village, challenging yourself in a city you don't know etc
- ianpri 12y ago
  I agree that short breaks away from the "norm" is good, but this isn't really unique to startups - i'd wager that you could gain the same benefits by just taking a vacation than trying to relocate your startup + staff every X months.

izolate 12y ago

I live in London and I love the rain & grey skies. I cycle 15 minutes to work, but sometimes take public transport too. I feel plenty productive in this city, and if I were to start my own business, I'd have no problems being here. I think it really depends on who you are, not where you are.

ciupicri 12y ago
I don't know how can you love cycling in the rain, considering that the bike needs cleaning afterwards.
- kaybe 12y ago
  For short city trips, you want to have an old cheap outdoor bike (otherwise it might get stolen anyway). I don't see why you have to clean those. (I clean my bike once every 6 months, tops, and I ride it every day. The dirt is from the dirt or forest tracks I have to cross once in a while.)
  - ciupicri 12y ago
    Not here in Bucharest. There's some mud on the streets and on my bike too. Though I admit I haven't cleaned it up too much yet :-D
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- disputin 12y ago
  Cycling in the rain in the city your tyres can slip on oil - unpleasant results even at starting speed. The oily puddles also stain clothes, which probably aren't cycling gear on a short 15 minute ride. My last job was a Chiswick to Tower Hill ride, gear up and get dirty, but the worst part was the state of the toilets we had to change in.
amsika 12y ago
I live in Paris, and love it (the rain, the cycle, same thing here), but I really enjoy traveling when I, or the product need to.

noelwelsh 12y ago

Sounds nice and fun for a short break. I think the copy needs some work though, which might relate into tweaking how they target their market. For instance: "Getting far away from your family" <=== If you have a family, that's not how it works. You signed up for the responsibility.

VLM 12y ago
Being as charitable as possible, I read it more as "move out of moms basement at 25" than "abandon your wife and children"
cpwright 12y ago
I'll further that as, I read this something like "Get away from your family, because they are a distraction"; but you have time for "surfing and yoga", because that lets you decompress. Seems totally contradictory to me; as if it is somehow OK to be distracted by your family, but if its yoga then somehow it is all good.

zecg 12y ago

They seem to be selling a dystopia: "Getting far away from your family, your friends, [...] Living close to the beach, and surfing or doing yoga, also helps decompressing after work, and avoiding burnout, and therefore staying productive"

ctdonath 12y ago
They also overlook the harsh conditions most [near-]waterfront properties suffer for prolonged periods. There's a reason non-oceangoing businesses aren't there. Wet cold, unmitigated storms (up to hurricanes), shifting waterlines, pounding waves, sketchy internet connections, delayed delivery/shipping times, debilitating heat, salt corrosion, etc. When it's good it's great, and when it's bad nobody but long-term born-and-die-there locals stay.

sdepablos 12y ago

All is perfect, until you need to hire more developers, and then find (almost) all of them live in big cites, and they're not willing to relocate to a place without theaters, bars, discos... probably a lot like the place the came from before living in the city ;)

guiomie 12y ago

For the prices: http://www.thebluehouse.io/month-long-program/ http://www.thebluehouse.io/month-long-program/ The white on yellow background isn't the best choice of colours. Having been to Essaouira, I can only imagine Taghazout more relaxing.

sumnulu 12y ago
If you miss, there is a (hidden) navigation menu at the top of the page. http://www.thebluehouse.io/ http://www.thebluehouse.io/ http://www.thebluehouse.io/month-long-program/ http://www.thebluehouse.io/month-long-program/ http://www.thebluehouse.io/projects/ http://www.thebluehouse.io/projects/ http://www.thebluehouse.io/blog/ http://www.thebluehouse.io/blog/ http://www.thebluehouse.io/apply-house/ http://www.thebluehouse.io/apply-house/

fergie 12y ago

Sounds more like a holiday camp

banino 12y ago
Hey Fergie. It's not our intention (I'm the cofounder) :) Our goal is to have people work as much as in their hometown, but get more done because they're in a better setting, and because when they take a break, it's a fucking amazing break.

steve-benjamins 12y ago

I'm a solo bootstrapped entrepreneur but I like working in offices with others— this is perfect for me. To me, this seems like more of a focussed co-working space abroad.

josefresco 12y ago

Hey I live in a small (former) fishing town! Except it's winter, 30 degrees and I'm inside staring at my computer screens and might as well be anywhere in the world. Yes I can stop work, and "go surfing" (in the right season), I can even stop working and visit the local town pier and see those quaint "fisherman" struggling to make a living -because let's be honest, not everyone can be a tech-ninja startup founder. If I wanted I could even crank the heat in my car, squint and make believe that it's actually a warm exotic beach in Europe but hey, at some point I gotta go back to the office, fire up that computer and get back to hacking. At the end of the day it doesn't matter where you are. If you need to "break out of the box" and travel a bit, go for it. But simply moving operations to somewhere foreign will not be the deciding factor in your success.

onion2k 12y ago
If all you're doing is hacking code then moving somewhere that lowers your burnrate as much as possible does seem like a good idea.
- organsnyder 12y ago
  Only after you've tried to account for all of the intangibles, though. The right location can give you many benefits—workforce, networking opportunities, media access—that aren't available everywhere. Some of that can be done virtually, but in-person meetings still are much more memorable for many people. Also, if all your company is doing is "hacking code", then I doubt your company will be around for very long. All that being said, I do agree with the sentiment, and I think that the benefits of high-cost locales are probably not worth the increased cost of living. I definitely appreciate my Midwest mortgage payment.
  - handzhiev 12y ago
    "Some of that can be done virtually, but in-person meetings still are much more memorable for many people." But some don't ever do in-person meetings. There are many small companies who do business 100% online, don't need investors, local staff or anything like that. For this type of companies staying in the big city makes no sense. (Disclaimer: I live in the woods in a small mountain town)

frik 12y ago

Is Morocco a save place now? A relative was there to help in the United Nations peacekeeping mission, especially the southern part of Morocco "Western Sahara". United Nations peacekeeping mission is still ongoing: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:United_Nations_peacekeeping_missions.PNG http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:United_Nations_peacek... (blue region in north-west of Africa)

tinco 12y ago
Western Sahara is not near this town at all. There's some trouble with terrorists in Morocco, but terrorist attacks are not on small fishing towns, they would be in the big cities.
scyllax 12y ago
It's almost impossible to have a gun in Morocco then it's easy to assume that you are safer than in the US.
- maaku 12y ago
  That statement makes no sense. You know it is possible to have violence without guns, right?
  - scyllax 12y ago
    The thing that I'm pointing to is that there is more crime in the US than Morocco.

tinco 12y ago

Where are the pictures of the lodgings? It sounds very interesting, but it's also rather expensive. I've never been to Morocco, but from what I've heard I bet it's possible to sleep in a four star hotel and eat every meal in a restaurant for under 500 euro per week. Of course you are offering extras like being networked in with the other residents, and you are marketing to Europeans so it's not crazy to charge this amount, but it would be nice if you could have some more details and evidence on what you are offering.

banino 12y ago
Hey Tinco, I'm one of the cofounders. Morocco is no South East Asia. A 5 star hotel is expensive in Morocco. Morocco can be really cheap if you go to a small secluded village in the mountains or in a sketchy town, on the coastside, it's whole other story. We'll upload the pictures as soon as the constructions are over! But, believe me it's going to be great (you can checkout our pinterest to see what we're going for)
- CalRobert 12y ago
  Spending money which will eventually support a government that throws gay people in jail is probably less than ideal for a lot of people as well.
metra 12y ago
Just got back from 5 weeks in Morocco, 2 of which were in Taghazout. My girlfriend and I were living very, very simply -- shared bathroom, toilet didn't have a tank, no meals included, internet only in the restaurant downstairs -- but we were paying 10 euros a night, each. You can actually see the place in the pictures they've put up, it was very beautiful, right on the beach. There was a surf hostel that we also stayed in but it was more expensive (15 euros a night) for bunk beds but it had internet, good bathrooms and showers, breakfast included. Morocco's a bargainers paradise. If you haggle you can get the prices down. It's the offseason now. Out of all the places we visited (Taghazout, Sidi Ifni, Mirleft, Agadir, Ouarzazate, Tinghir, Boulemane, Merzouga, Chefchaouen, Marrakesh), for a total of 2 people, we would average around 20 euros a night, sometimes paying 10 euros and sometimes 30. Of course, we weren't looking for all the bells and whistles, just a clean bed for the night. Sometimes we got just that, sometimes we got a luxury suite for 20 euros cause it's the offseason. The big cities were indeed surprisingly more expensive. But nothing about Morocco is sketchy -- the hasslers are annoying but I never once felt threatened (it was also always the 2 of us). The coast is beautiful and you should explore beyond Taghazout -- Essaouira and Sidi Ifni if you can.

santoriv 12y ago

Well, I think this strategy might work if you want to keep your burn rate unbelievably low while you are writing v 1.0. But to be honest 300 Euro per week for space is actually not optimal. I've been in the mountains of Vietnam for the last year and rent has been between $50 and $125 per month, which has made it possible for me to be unemployed for a long time and write v1.0 of my startup's app. I think that Southeast Asia is a pretty ideal location if you want to go the bootstrapping route - the people are super nice and friendly and everything is unbelievably cheap. You really can get a lot done. The serious downside is that you are not really connected to the tech scene - you can't really meet that many hackers (i.e. potential cofounders) and of course there is zero funding. And when you talk to tech folks stateside you feel pretty disconnected when you in a different part of the world. Nevertheless I think it's a viable way to go solo.

banino 12y ago
Hey! It's also pretty far from Europe, Morocco is 3hrs away from Paris and London. And a lot of people simply don't want to live in Asia, they'd rather go to Africa.
WhitneyLand 12y ago
What is the fastest Internet connection you can get while paying $125/month for rent?
- santoriv 12y ago
  12 mbps for ~$10 a month. Arguably that's burst and in the evening I can't Skype effectively because of the congestion. But it's good enough for what I'm working on.
  - codyb 12y ago
    Wow $50 - $125 a month? Sounds like a great way to set up for six months and just have a crash pad to explore Asia with for a while. Any pointers on visas?

blueskin_ 12y ago

Sounds like a great way to selfdestruct. "Hey, guess what, you have to move to $middleofnowhere." "Hey, guess what, I quit." Exactly how the conversation would go if it ever happened to me. What would happen in such a situation is the good employees would quit because they wouldn't want to compromise their salary, marketability, and ability to take a new job, while the dead weight would go with it because it's still easier than finding a new job if they can build up enough job security in their current one. Also interesting that someone thinks you should do it... who just happens to own office space in said location. Cities work because there is the infrastructure and the talent pool. Going to the middle of nowhere might save a pittance on salary, but when people inevitably quit, good luck replacing them without spending even more on moving other people there.

lewaldman 12y ago
Hey Mate, Think Remote! :) The only place where I worked on the last 8 years that I couldn't work remotely is not the kind of place that I would work anymore. For me these days, if a company doesn't have some remote policy in place (I mean... not full remote, nor once per week, but the option to, sporadically, work from home on a sick day or to be able to do some coding/admin stuff on the road) it automatically flares a red flag as a place that would not be a magical place where I could do the best that I can. If the place doesn't have the remote-some-times flexibility it's probably a place with bad management practices and an out-dated culture. Same thing regarding talent pool... Why on earth do you need to smell the emanating creative fumes of your employees every day from across the hall? :P
- blueskin_ 12y ago
  Remote is nice when it works, but it doesn't always or for every company. Where I work right now, for example, people work remotely but still have required days in the office for meetings etc., while I couldn't work remotely as too much of what I do is physical work with networks and servers that wouldn't be possible remotely - those are the people that will be hit with "you have to move" and so quit, especially since chances are that in the middle of nowhere, there will be few to no career opportunities for them.
12y ago

cowsandmilk 12y ago

I have a friend who works for Power Engineers. The founders built the company in Hailey, Idaho, near the Sun Valley Ski Resort. They are now a massive company with 39 US Offices and 4 international offices. I've never been sure if the lesson is that you can start a company in the middle of nowhere, or if you need to have local offices to serve your customers. The headquarters is still in Hailey, ID, in the middle of nowhere, but they clearly thought they needed offices elsewhere to add ~1 additional office per year of the company.

n0body 12y ago

i'm not sure what this is, it's not that clear. it seems to be an advert for a guest house that's tailored to people building startups? here's a hint, if you're building a start up you want to be successful, moving somewhere to go surfing isn't probably the best thing to do and it doesn't seem that cheap either tbh. not forgetting remoteness is a massive problem, i worked somewhere remote, it was awful. they had surfing. i moved back to the city after 6 months, i've never been happier. that said, i hope it works for you, i wish i could live at the beach in a warm country

mnml_ 12y ago

http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Hackbase http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Hackbase

boracay 12y ago

Hopefully the name of that boat isn't a bad omen ;) http://www.thebluehouse.io/#surrounded-with-the-best http://www.thebluehouse.io/#surrounded-with-the-best (scroll up)

benbristow 12y ago

I live in Grimsby (UK). You don't want to come here. It's depressing, boring, smelly and awful. I'd prefer to be in somewhere like London than here. The only good thing is that we have decent broadband.

dsq 12y ago
Really? The Elton John & Bernie Taupin song made it sound wonderful!

linkeex 12y ago

This might be the most dotcom-ish post I've read since joining HackerNews. Don't get me wrong on this but even the argumentation is clearly wrong here: > work in places so magical they could be on the cover of travel magazines > under an umbrella on a beach in Senegal, in cafes in old Arab medinas, and more > Adventurous Startups. and then > YOU’LL BE MORE FOCUSED I've tried this myself and my experience was that working abroad is totally doable but by no means did I achieve focusing more on my work. Instead I would pick any chance meeting new people and discover the new environment. Also: In my opinion everything comes down to networking, which is why a lonely beach in Marocco might not be the right place to start this...

majditoumi 12y ago
It's not for everyone clearly. When you actually spend more than a couple of weeks, you stop getting that need to discover and talk to people, and get to work super productively (one of the reason is: you can't wait to go back to enjoying the place). This solution works if you have a 100% online product, or if you opt to travel at the right stage for your startup (when you have had networked for now, when you're pivoting etc).

GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago

May or may not be great while you're working, but what's gonna happen when the startup goes bust and there are literally zero other jobs there.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

hackerboos 12y ago

How do you deal with the red-tape? It looks like you need a working visa to work in Morocco.

netcan 12y ago

I think a lifestyle location could be a cool underdog hiring strategy, at elates if you accept that you all your hire will be relocation hires. IE, if you are wiling to pay big city salaries in a small town location, that could be attractive to some people. Not everyone and obviously if you have Google/Facebook hiring requirements it's not an option. But, if you need to hire 5-10 a year it might work. Not everyone will want it. But, the minority that do want it want it a lot. IE, imagine a couple with small kids from London comings for an interview to a nice location in Crete. Instead of a tiny London 2 bedroom, they can move into a nice cottage. They can save hours a day in commutes and get more cash into savings. That will appeal to some employees (or their wives/husbands). You can't say Crete is objectively better or worse than the London buzz. But, it is different in a way that will inevitably appeal to some. The problem is that it's hard not to adjust your salary expectations (as an employer) to local salaries and that just isn't compatible with relocation hiring. People don't relocate for a lower salary, even if cost of living is lower. I think the EU has a lot of these possibilities that are still under appreciated. If you think your main win/lose parameter is the quality of people you can hire, you should think creatively about how to win here. It's hard to win competing head-to-head.

CalRobert 12y ago
While I don't wish to imply I am the world's most amazing person, I think I'm reasonably competent. I moved precisely for lifestyle reasons to Dublin, Ireland, and quite like it. While the cost of living is relatively high by European standards, it's far, far, cheaper than the bay, or west L.A. for that matter. I mostly wanted to live in a dense, walkable, European city, and Dublin has exceeded expectations in that regard. I realize you probably weren't thinking of a European capital when you wrote it, but it does ring true that there are people for whom location is more important than maximum compensation.

dysoco 12y ago

I too live in a fishing town, yes, it's nice being a small town without any traffic or people on the street (except in Summer when we get tourists) but honestly I can't wait to move out. I can't get fast internet, power/internet goes down when it gets a bit windy or starts raining; and it rains quite a lot, making you really unproductive. Let's not talk about 3G/4G, we are lucky to have 3G on a good day. If I wanted to go to some conference or meetup I'd have to drive at least 4-5 hours since there's nothing here, and we don't have train or anything. Talking about leisure time, I like surfing, but that's only viable during the Summer, there's not much else to do here other than hanging out with other people; we are lucky to have a cinema, but some movies don't even make it here (I'm still waiting to watch Interstellar). This would be the perfect place for a lonely writer working on a novel, but definitely not for people like us, who need to be always connected and making the best use of technology possible. Disclaimer: I've never lived in a city, maybe I'll end up hating it, who knows?

mr_luc 12y ago
Just wanted to say that I lived in a small ecuadorean fishing village for 7 years, and my experience was the opposite ... but I'm not starting a startup! My internet was even more limited (EDGE), power went out sometimes (two power bricks were enough for my mac air, though, and the cell towers never went out, so I could make it through even a multi-day outage without losing internet!), and comfy fast wifi in a coffee shop was 40 minutes away (I'd schedule voice or video meetings on days I liked to go into town to buy things or eat at good restaurants). And surfing fast, big, tropical beach and point breaks ... well. I bought a house down there; I'm back in the states right now, because I came back and got married to a girl from my hometown. But we're heading to Ecuador again as soon as we can. :) But a startup? Hmm. I think I'd have been a good startup employee, but contracting was a better fit anyway since I really appreciated multi-month blocks without work.
agentultra 12y ago
You could be surrounded by thousands of people at any moment who all have headphones on and keep their gaze at a 45 degree angle towards the ground. You too can walk past homeless panhandlers asking for money and ignore them. You can hang out at hip dive-bars and pretend to be cool until the neighborhood gentrifies and you have to commute farther out to the next spot. You can sit next to the schizophrenic on the bus that went off of their meds and everyone does their best to pretend e is the hallucination and not a real person. You can go to events where every clique but your own is present. You can rub shoulders with everyone who wouldn't give a damn if they stepped on you for their next big opportunity. You can find loneliness anywhere. Being "always connected," I'm beginning to realize, is not always the optimal state. You lose the ability to focus, to consider the future, and form thoughts of your own. As Douglas Rushkoff suggests: we all live in the present. For better or worse this is the way things work... but I think it's rather amazing that we have the option to work on a terrace in a medina in some North African city if we want to. And yet so few of us, at the forefront of the technology that enables this lifestyle, take advantage of it -- even for temporary periods. There's something to be said about taking a few months away from the Valley to think for a while.

codingdave 12y ago

It would be more productive to just have a remote workforce, and let them live where they want. Some people might want small fishing towns, others will make different choices. The key is to let everyone do what works best for themselves.

jim_greco 12y ago

This seems like a really good option if you want to pretend to be building a startup: Come up with disruptive startup ideas while sitting on the beach, throwing house parties like in The Social Network, and drinking a beer with other people pretending to build a startup. It doesn't sound like a good option though if you want to actually build a startup: writing a lot of code, meeting with clients, hiring great people, etc.

untog 12y ago
I don't see how it would be a problem to write lots of code. Meet with clients, probably not. But not everyone has them. And investors are definitely an issue. But sitting down and knocking out a lot of code? Why not?
banino 12y ago
Agreed. TechStars alumni Maptia for instance build an awesome product in a surf town in Morocco, they worked like crazy, received a crazy amount of applications, grew their team there.

markbnj 12y ago

For years I though that the Internet would fuel re-ruralization because it allows people to work outside the limits of densely populated areas. I think I suffered from two errors in that assumption: first that many people other than me wanted to live and work in the boonies; and second that infrastructure in rural areas would catch up somehow. I think the trend toward urbanization makes perfect sense from an infrastructure perspective, and it makes a certain amount of sense that most people prefer to live with other people.

jdawg77 12y ago

Back in 2009, I moved from Silicon Valley (Cupertino, natch, home of...well, me, until I left - rumor is there's also another tech firm or two there, but those fruit guys well, you know). At the time, I had it all. Consulting firm was paying half the bills and the scalable, bootstrapped and profitable media business had hit north of six million visitors the month before the big move. New location: Maldives. Sun, sand and surf. Want to see dolphins? Top five in the world. Coral reefs? Some of the best. That underwater restaurant Tom Cruise stayed at on his honeymoon at Conrad Hilton, when it was the world's first? It's an amazing place, quite special - I hit it up in 2008 the year before we moved there. Unlike a lot of folks that move to random locations, or say Costa Rica, the first time I moved overseas with a startup (left the US to join a Costa Rican one), the Maldives trip was my second time. A few exceptions about my move: * Father-in-law was Vice President, of the country at the time (I left before he became president) * Then president was family by marriage; personally, I thought the guy was a sh!tty father when we went to the first daughter's birthday. Imho, both parents, regardless of how busy, should make time. Eg, when it was my older son's b-day, only the first lady showed. She was cool. The president was a bit uptight. Long story. Pros about moving to Maldives: * Any foreigner can get the "local," discount, like teachers, for example * The islands are amazing. Seriously. Try lounging on the beach where Madonna stayed...the resort owners is nice and well, the beach spectacular. They also have the largest array of solar panels privately owned in their region. * Fish is plentiful, fresh, and some of the very best tuna in the world. There are some amazing dishes. Cons: * Everything is imported and subject to a 100% tax * Capital island is 1 square mile...most densely populated city in the world per square meter * Internet situation is abysmal. I lack credibility here, as I have zero background in networking, but suffice to say after meeting multiple ministers of telecommunications, pitching the government to try to fix the situation AND lobbying after my father-in-law, at the time, was President of the Country...well, I know why in my home country, "Net neutrality," makes people confused. This article is too light, too shallow on details for those of us who've done the globe trotting thing and worked in multiple countries overseas.

_almosnow 12y ago
> A few exceptions about my move: * Father-in-law was Vice President, of the country at the time (I left before he became president) Hahaha, come on man, I'm pretty sure that if you're part of the ruling social class of any given country your life is defeinitely going to be much more enjoyable than if you aren't.

gct 12y ago

Terrible article, it basically boils down to hipster garbage. "Adventurous Startup", give me a break. We're such free, weird unencumbered souls lol! Eat pray love!

mgirdley 12y ago

Founders should choose the correct location that gives them the maximum possible advantage. If you're selling to the oil industry, build in Houston. Finance, NYC. And so on. Sometimes geography doesn't matter, so a small fishing town is just fine.

dodyg 12y ago

I am based in Cairo. Other than the rare revolutions, occasional bombings and frequent elevated security situations, it is a perfectly suitable place to try starting up your startup.

sre_ops 12y ago

Total rubbish. Small towns insulate one from other ideas and other people pidgin holing oneself.

DanielBMarkham 12y ago

I have to point out that: 1) Traditionally, HN has been about startups: what works, what doesn't work 2) This entire comment thread is reading like a tourism forum At some point, maybe 2-4 years ago, HN sublty starting moving from a board about how to make your startup to folks trying to pitch other folks on stuff to buy for your startup. It's the old thing about during the gold rush the gold miners didn't make all the money -- the guys selling pickaxes did. I don't say that to discount these folks. Hell if I know. Probably best place in the world for a startup. It's just every now and then HN gets especially bad about this. And it needs to be pointed out.

fiberloptic 12y ago

1.) this is a recruiting blurb from TBH. 2.) I want an unbiased opinion, this one doesn't address pros vs. cons. 3.) why would I want to smell fish all day?

mrfusion 12y ago

Are there any small fishing towns in the US?

spydum 12y ago
plenty along floridas cost, depending on your definition of small: jupiter, pine island, hudson beach.. pretty much take your pick along the coast, avoiding the major metro areas like Tampa/StPete/Clearwater/Miami/Jacksonville (all are more city than "town").

yc1010 12y ago

Thats all well and good but some of us have families and kids.

virtualwhys 12y ago

Looks appealing, right near Anchor Point, a world class surf spot. Was about to pull the trigger on a 3-4 month rental...until the price. 1,200 Euros/month in Morocco, really? During the fall and spring I pay 500 Euros per month for a 2 bedroom, 5 minute walk from the beach in Capbreton, France, an area with surf as good or better than anything in Morocco. I can appreciate, number 1, the safety (as I had all my gear stolen in Morocco a few years ago, passport included), and living with other tech heads, but in the end I just need a decent internet connection, a kitchen, and location in some interesting part of the world; the rest are nice-to-haves. Airbnb et al have totally destroyed the bargain rental market. From India, to Morocco, to Argentina, etc. formerly dirt cheap destinations now fetch luxury prices with often very modest accomodations in return. Best bet for the travelling coder is probably to just do a week rental via hose-you-inc and then search locally for rentals closer to market value (i.e. not 2-5X what the locals are paying). Now, it's a fantastic market for sellers, more power to them, if I had a place to sublet I'd be more than happy to fetch top dollar for some vanilla 1 bedroom apartment with a blender, hot plate, and clean sheets ;-) 2cents

codyb 12y ago

I'm not sure big cities are prohibitive here. Sure the subway can suck but in New York City I have access to surfing, beaches, more yoga studios (and dance, and martial arts, among a million other classes in languages, the culinary arts, and virtually any other topic you could choose) than anyone could possibly count, restaurants, museums, concerts, sporting events, scuba diving, sky diving, and anything else you could ever ask for. (And even the things you'd never think to ask for). I mean the list just goes on and on and on. Of course this is predicated on the assumption that you will take advantage of it (and have the money, interest, time, and energy to do so). However, that being said, the idea of waking up in my hut, and walking outside, doing a little yoga on the beach, and then setting up for a cup of coffee with some locals and hacking away in the sun does sound undeniably attractive. I'd kill for some more sun in my workplace. And just whose idea were these damned open offices anyways? I do enjoy the social interactions and yet there is always that nipping feeling that I'm interrupting someone else's zone while I do so, much as, often, people interrupt mine when they do.

imanaccount247 12y ago

I'm not so sure you should be trying to push "leave your family and friends behind" as an upside. You are just reminding people of an obvious downside, you aren't actually turning it into an upside.

Animats 12y ago

Well, if you're looking for a location like that, consider Pillar Point Harbor in California. There's a small industrial area with cheap space, 2-3 short blocks from the ocean. It's adjacent to Mavericks Beach, one of the world's great surfing spots. There's a small-boat harbor. Several riding stables. Some nightclubs. Decent restaurants. A small airport. Housing prices aren't too high. It's a half hour drive from there to Silicon Valley. 45 minutes to San Francisco. There's bus service to both places. 10 minutes to Half Moon Bay with supermarkets and hardware stores.

OscarPedroso 12y ago

You definitely want exposure to all types of resources and I find that being in a bigger city allows you do that. I'm currently a medium-sized fish in a small pond and it's still hard to find the right people that'll guide me along the way.

mariusandreiana 12y ago

Planning to do this. Any advice on how to meet people once you settled in a city? e.g. couchsurfing (request to go out for a tea)