5 ms·

What I.Q. doesn't tell you about race

31 points by tpyo 17y ago

tokenadult 17y ago
An interesting review of a very worthwhile book. Here are some more comments on the same book: "It is not just the fascinating effect that makes the book special. It's also Flynn's style. There's an unusual combination of clarity, wit, apposite allusion, and farsightedness in making connections and exploring unexpected consequences. The Flynn effect, in Flynn's hands, makes a good, gripping, puzzling, and not-quite-finished story..." --Ian Deary, Edinburgh University "This book is a gold mine of pointers to interesting work, much of which was new to me. All of us who wrestle with the extraordinarily difficult questions about intelligence that Flynn discusses are in his debt.." --Charles Murray, American Enterprise Institute & co-author of The Bell Curve "This highly engaging, and very readable, book takes forward the Dickens/Flynn model of intelligence in the form of asking yet more provocative questions. . . A most unusual book, one that holds the reader's attention and leaves behind concepts and ideas that force us to rethink all sorts of issues.." --Sir Michael Rutter, Kings College London "Flynn provides the first satisfying explanation of the massive rise in IQ test scores. He avoids both the absurd conclusion that our great grandparents were all mentally retarded and the equally unsatisfactory suggestion that the rise has just been in performance on IQ tests without any wider implications.." --N. J. Mackintosh, University of Cambridge "Citing many scholarly works, Flynn paints a dynamic picture of what intelligence is and the role of a person's genetic background, physiology and neurology, immediate environment and broader social factors...he has produced an impressively multidimensional and often wise look at the elusive topic of human intelligence." --Publisher's Weekly "In What is Intelligence? James R. Flynn...suggests that we should not faciley equate IQ gains with intelligence gains. He says that it's necessary to 'dissect intelligence' into its component parts: 'solving mathematical problems, interpreteing the great works of literature, finding on the spot solutions, assimilating the scientific worldview, critical acumen and wisdom.' When this dissection is carried out, several paradoxes emerge, which Flynn in this engaging book attempts to reconcile." --Richard Restak, American Scholar "The 20th century saw the "Flynn Effect" - massive gains in IQ from one generation to another." --Scientific American Mind "In a brilliant interweaving of data and argument, Flynn calls into question fundamental assumptions about the nature of intelligence that have driven the field for the past century. There is something here for everyone to lose sleep over. His solution to the perplexing issues revolving around IQ gains over time will give the IQ Ayatollahs fits!." --S. J. Ceci, Cornell University "What Is Intelligence? is one of the best books I have read on intelligence-ever...This is a brilliant book because, first, it helps resolve paradoxes that, in the past, seemed not to lend themselves to any sensible solutions...one of the best things about the book is Flynn's sense of humility...this is a masterful book that will influence thinking about intelligence for many years to come. It is one of those few books for which one can truly say that it is must reading for anyone." --Robert J. Sternberg, PsycCRITIQUES "...In this thoughtful, well-written book, Flynn offers an account of why the so-called Flynn effect occurs and what it means (and does not mean)....This is the clearest, most engaging work on intelligence....All will learn from the author's nuanced arguments. Some may quibble with Flynn's observations, but their work is cut for them: one cannot fault his clarity or ingenuity. Essential." --D.S. Dunn, Moravian College, CHOICE "...James Flynn is best known for having discovered a stubborn fact...he established that in every country where consistent IQ tests have been given to large numbers of people over time, scores have been rising as far back as the records go, in some cases to the early 20th century. What Is Intelligence? is Flynn's attempt to explain this phenomenon, now known as the Flynn effect... an important take on what we have made of ourselves over the past few centuries and might yet make of ourselves in the future." --Cosma Shalizi, Assistant Professor in the Statistics Department at Carnegie Mellon University and an external professor at the Santa Fe Institute, American Scientist Link to description of the book (whence those reviews came): http://www.amazon.com/What-Intelligence-Beyond-Flynn-Effect/dp/0521741475/ http://www.amazon.com/What-Intelligence-Beyond-Flynn-Effect/... An in-depth transcript of a lecture by the author: http://www.psychometrics.sps.cam.ac.uk/page/109/beyond-the-flynn-effect.htm http://www.psychometrics.sps.cam.ac.uk/page/109/beyond-the-f...
mynameishere 17y ago
The second sentence is a straw man. Skimming the text, I see that's much the case throughout. Gladwell, if you look past his charming style, is extremely sloppy. Everybody who has researched IQ has come across the twin studies which amply prove that IQ is not immutable. But the only one ignoring such studies is the actual "fundamentalists" who deny that genetics has anything at all to do with intelligence. The increase in IQ from nutrition and education is going to experience stark diminishing returns, as has already been seen. http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/custom/portlets/recordDetails/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=EJ729986&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=EJ729986 http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/custom/portlets/recordD...
- tokenadult 17y ago
  Everybody who has researched IQ has come across the twin studies which amply prove that IQ is not immutable. Yes, there are a number of lines of evidence that IQ is far from immutable at the individual level, even though environmental influences on IQ are very poorly understood. Because such environmental influences are poorly understood, it is not at all clear that societal increases in IQ can't continue. I've enjoyed hearing from several well known psychologists about this, including some of the doyens of twin research, as I participate in the journal club in individual differences psychology and behavioral genetics http://www.psych.umn.edu/courses/fall09/mcguem/psy8935/default.htm http://www.psych.umn.edu/courses/fall09/mcguem/psy8935/defau... at the university where those researchers are based this fall semester. There is always lively discussion on what the data show, and what the data don't show. Thus far, there are no data to show a hard upper limit on how much individual academic achievement might raise with the best interventions, nor any predictable limit on how much secular increases in societal levels of IQ might continue.
- hughprime 17y ago
  The second sentence is a straw man. Is there some kind of competition I don't know about to mention the words "straw man" in as many threads as possible? It seems to pop up in just about every thread, along with the words "correlation does not equal causation".
  - deleted 17y ago
kingkongrevenge 17y ago
> These days, when talk turns to the supposed genetic differences in the intelligence of certain races, Southern Italians have disappeared from the discussion. Not been to the guido hood lately?
- mdakin 17y ago
  Is there a non-bigoted interpretation of this slur-laced question?
panic 17y ago
It's possible that education is increasingly providing the kind of skills necessary to do well on IQ tests.
- windsurfer 17y ago
  Education isn't supposed to improve IQ related skills. Test designers take great pains to make up questions that should be largely universal and almost entirely unaffected by amount of education.
  - goodside 17y ago
    The fact that education has little or no effect on IQ happens to be true, but it's not guaranteed by definition or design. I.e., it's logically possible (and, in fact, popularly believed) that education makes your brain work better in general, and that learning French will improve your chess rating and your grades in calculus class. It was discovered that education doesn't help general intelligence much through tests designed on more fundamental principles like elimination of group factors and improving test-retest reliability.
  - tokenadult 17y ago
    Test designers take great pains to make up questions that should be largely universal and almost entirely unaffected by amount of education. Test designers purport to do that, but it's a generally replicated research finding that increased exposure to schooling, cross-culturally and across different brands of IQ tests, improves IQ test scores. See Ceci, Stephen J. (1991). How Much Does Schooling Influence General Intelligence and Its Cognitive Components? A Reassessment of the Evidence. Developmental Psychology 1991, Vol. 27, No. 5, 703-722 for one classic paper on this subject.
Conservationist 17y ago
Some related resources: IQ is history-correlative http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations IQ determines life success and more http://www.psych.utoronto.ca/users/reingold/courses/intelligence/cache/1198gottfred.html http://www.psych.utoronto.ca/users/reingold/courses/intellig... Faster evolution means more ethnic differences http://www.edge.org/q2009/q09_4.html#haidt http://www.edge.org/q2009/q09_4.html#haidt IQ and all other traits are heritable http://www.amazon.com/dp/0142003344 http://www.amazon.com/dp/0142003344
chrischen 17y ago
Could be that women go for smarter men. So evolution has done its part over the years and weeded out the low IQ genes, hehe.
- zackattack 17y ago
  Indeed, some evolutionary biologists believe that IQ differences exist to allow for dominance and inter-group stability.
- cousin_it 17y ago
  I'm pretty sure the Flynn effect is too fast to be explained by genetic change.
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
michaelkeenan 17y ago
Drawing heavily on the work of J. Philippe Rushton—a psychologist who specializes in comparing the circumference of what he calls the Negroid brain with the length of the Negroid penis—Saletan took the fundamentalist position to its logical conclusion. This essay doesn't attempt to accurately and fairly summarize opposing arguments.
akamaka 17y ago
I lost any interest in what Malcolm Gladwell has to say about race after he argued that East Asian children have better math skills because their ancestors cultivated rice and not wheat. http://www.pressrun.net/weblog/2009/09/outliers-whats-rice-got-to-do-with-maths.html http://www.pressrun.net/weblog/2009/09/outliers-whats-rice-g...
- Scriptor 17y ago
  The only connection between rice and math listed in that article is that cultivating rice encouraged a stronger work ethic because it is a year-round task. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that education has long been a cornerstone of Chinese society, going as far back as standardized tests during the Han dynasty.

31 points by tpyo 17y ago

An interesting review of a very worthwhile book. Here are some more comments on the same book: "It is not just the fascinating effect that makes the book special. It's also Flynn's style. There's an unusual combination of clarity, wit, apposite allusion, and farsightedness in making connections and exploring unexpected consequences. The Flynn effect, in Flynn's hands, makes a good, gripping, puzzling, and not-quite-finished story..." --Ian Deary, Edinburgh University "This book is a gold mine of pointers to interesting work, much of which was new to me. All of us who wrestle with the extraordinarily difficult questions about intelligence that Flynn discusses are in his debt.." --Charles Murray, American Enterprise Institute & co-author of The Bell Curve "This highly engaging, and very readable, book takes forward the Dickens/Flynn model of intelligence in the form of asking yet more provocative questions. . . A most unusual book, one that holds the reader's attention and leaves behind concepts and ideas that force us to rethink all sorts of issues.." --Sir Michael Rutter, Kings College London "Flynn provides the first satisfying explanation of the massive rise in IQ test scores. He avoids both the absurd conclusion that our great grandparents were all mentally retarded and the equally unsatisfactory suggestion that the rise has just been in performance on IQ tests without any wider implications.." --N. J. Mackintosh, University of Cambridge "Citing many scholarly works, Flynn paints a dynamic picture of what intelligence is and the role of a person's genetic background, physiology and neurology, immediate environment and broader social factors...he has produced an impressively multidimensional and often wise look at the elusive topic of human intelligence." --Publisher's Weekly "In What is Intelligence? James R. Flynn...suggests that we should not faciley equate IQ gains with intelligence gains. He says that it's necessary to 'dissect intelligence' into its component parts: 'solving mathematical problems, interpreteing the great works of literature, finding on the spot solutions, assimilating the scientific worldview, critical acumen and wisdom.' When this dissection is carried out, several paradoxes emerge, which Flynn in this engaging book attempts to reconcile." --Richard Restak, American Scholar "The 20th century saw the "Flynn Effect" - massive gains in IQ from one generation to another." --Scientific American Mind "In a brilliant interweaving of data and argument, Flynn calls into question fundamental assumptions about the nature of intelligence that have driven the field for the past century. There is something here for everyone to lose sleep over. His solution to the perplexing issues revolving around IQ gains over time will give the IQ Ayatollahs fits!." --S. J. Ceci, Cornell University "What Is Intelligence? is one of the best books I have read on intelligence-ever...This is a brilliant book because, first, it helps resolve paradoxes that, in the past, seemed not to lend themselves to any sensible solutions...one of the best things about the book is Flynn's sense of humility...this is a masterful book that will influence thinking about intelligence for many years to come. It is one of those few books for which one can truly say that it is must reading for anyone." --Robert J. Sternberg, PsycCRITIQUES "...In this thoughtful, well-written book, Flynn offers an account of why the so-called Flynn effect occurs and what it means (and does not mean)....This is the clearest, most engaging work on intelligence....All will learn from the author's nuanced arguments. Some may quibble with Flynn's observations, but their work is cut for them: one cannot fault his clarity or ingenuity. Essential." --D.S. Dunn, Moravian College, CHOICE "...James Flynn is best known for having discovered a stubborn fact...he established that in every country where consistent IQ tests have been given to large numbers of people over time, scores have been rising as far back as the records go, in some cases to the early 20th century. What Is Intelligence? is Flynn's attempt to explain this phenomenon, now known as the Flynn effect... an important take on what we have made of ourselves over the past few centuries and might yet make of ourselves in the future." --Cosma Shalizi, Assistant Professor in the Statistics Department at Carnegie Mellon University and an external professor at the Santa Fe Institute, American Scientist Link to description of the book (whence those reviews came): http://www.amazon.com/What-Intelligence-Beyond-Flynn-Effect/dp/0521741475/ http://www.amazon.com/What-Intelligence-Beyond-Flynn-Effect/... An in-depth transcript of a lecture by the author: http://www.psychometrics.sps.cam.ac.uk/page/109/beyond-the-flynn-effect.htm http://www.psychometrics.sps.cam.ac.uk/page/109/beyond-the-f...

mynameishere 17y ago

The second sentence is a straw man. Skimming the text, I see that's much the case throughout. Gladwell, if you look past his charming style, is extremely sloppy. Everybody who has researched IQ has come across the twin studies which amply prove that IQ is not immutable. But the only one ignoring such studies is the actual "fundamentalists" who deny that genetics has anything at all to do with intelligence. The increase in IQ from nutrition and education is going to experience stark diminishing returns, as has already been seen. http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/custom/portlets/recordDetails/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=EJ729986&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=EJ729986 http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/custom/portlets/recordD...

tokenadult 17y ago
Everybody who has researched IQ has come across the twin studies which amply prove that IQ is not immutable. Yes, there are a number of lines of evidence that IQ is far from immutable at the individual level, even though environmental influences on IQ are very poorly understood. Because such environmental influences are poorly understood, it is not at all clear that societal increases in IQ can't continue. I've enjoyed hearing from several well known psychologists about this, including some of the doyens of twin research, as I participate in the journal club in individual differences psychology and behavioral genetics http://www.psych.umn.edu/courses/fall09/mcguem/psy8935/default.htm http://www.psych.umn.edu/courses/fall09/mcguem/psy8935/defau... at the university where those researchers are based this fall semester. There is always lively discussion on what the data show, and what the data don't show. Thus far, there are no data to show a hard upper limit on how much individual academic achievement might raise with the best interventions, nor any predictable limit on how much secular increases in societal levels of IQ might continue.
hughprime 17y ago
The second sentence is a straw man. Is there some kind of competition I don't know about to mention the words "straw man" in as many threads as possible? It seems to pop up in just about every thread, along with the words "correlation does not equal causation".
- deleted 17y ago

kingkongrevenge 17y ago

> These days, when talk turns to the supposed genetic differences in the intelligence of certain races, Southern Italians have disappeared from the discussion. Not been to the guido hood lately?

mdakin 17y ago
Is there a non-bigoted interpretation of this slur-laced question?

panic 17y ago

It's possible that education is increasingly providing the kind of skills necessary to do well on IQ tests.

windsurfer 17y ago
Education isn't supposed to improve IQ related skills. Test designers take great pains to make up questions that should be largely universal and almost entirely unaffected by amount of education.
- goodside 17y ago
  The fact that education has little or no effect on IQ happens to be true, but it's not guaranteed by definition or design. I.e., it's logically possible (and, in fact, popularly believed) that education makes your brain work better in general, and that learning French will improve your chess rating and your grades in calculus class. It was discovered that education doesn't help general intelligence much through tests designed on more fundamental principles like elimination of group factors and improving test-retest reliability.
- tokenadult 17y ago
  Test designers take great pains to make up questions that should be largely universal and almost entirely unaffected by amount of education. Test designers purport to do that, but it's a generally replicated research finding that increased exposure to schooling, cross-culturally and across different brands of IQ tests, improves IQ test scores. See Ceci, Stephen J. (1991). How Much Does Schooling Influence General Intelligence and Its Cognitive Components? A Reassessment of the Evidence. Developmental Psychology 1991, Vol. 27, No. 5, 703-722 for one classic paper on this subject.

Conservationist 17y ago

Some related resources: IQ is history-correlative http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations IQ determines life success and more http://www.psych.utoronto.ca/users/reingold/courses/intelligence/cache/1198gottfred.html http://www.psych.utoronto.ca/users/reingold/courses/intellig... Faster evolution means more ethnic differences http://www.edge.org/q2009/q09_4.html#haidt http://www.edge.org/q2009/q09_4.html#haidt IQ and all other traits are heritable http://www.amazon.com/dp/0142003344 http://www.amazon.com/dp/0142003344

chrischen 17y ago

Could be that women go for smarter men. So evolution has done its part over the years and weeded out the low IQ genes, hehe.

zackattack 17y ago
Indeed, some evolutionary biologists believe that IQ differences exist to allow for dominance and inter-group stability.
cousin_it 17y ago
I'm pretty sure the Flynn effect is too fast to be explained by genetic change.

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

michaelkeenan 17y ago

Drawing heavily on the work of J. Philippe Rushton—a psychologist who specializes in comparing the circumference of what he calls the Negroid brain with the length of the Negroid penis—Saletan took the fundamentalist position to its logical conclusion. This essay doesn't attempt to accurately and fairly summarize opposing arguments.

akamaka 17y ago

I lost any interest in what Malcolm Gladwell has to say about race after he argued that East Asian children have better math skills because their ancestors cultivated rice and not wheat. http://www.pressrun.net/weblog/2009/09/outliers-whats-rice-got-to-do-with-maths.html http://www.pressrun.net/weblog/2009/09/outliers-whats-rice-g...

Scriptor 17y ago
The only connection between rice and math listed in that article is that cultivating rice encouraged a stronger work ethic because it is a year-round task. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that education has long been a cornerstone of Chinese society, going as far back as standardized tests during the Han dynasty.