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Related topic: I just finished reading "Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion" by Sam Harris and it has become my book recommendation for people t

by tbastos 12y ago

Related topic: I just finished reading "Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion" by Sam Harris and it has become my book recommendation for people that don't understand psychedelics or meditation. Sam talks about both in the most lucid way possible. Highly recommended!

api 12y ago
IMHO religion has little to do with spirituality. I'm not necessarily saying it's all bad, just that it's all about politics, philosophy, enforcing a certain set of norms to allow cooperation, etc. The relationship of religion to spiritual experience is along the lines of the relationship between space themed fiction like Star Trek to actual space flight.
- Alex3917 12y ago
  > The relationship of religion to spiritual experience is along the lines of the relationship between space themed fiction like Star Trek to actual space flight. If you look at actual definitions of the word 'religion' used by academics who study religion, there is actually a pretty tight relationship. E.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM-yinhpOgQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM-yinhpOgQ
- tomsthumb 12y ago
  Religion is a classifying term for a variety of cultural languages in which the vast majority of spirituality has been framed throughout history. Saying they have little to do with one another is, at best, uninformed. One does not necessitate the other, but that does not mean they are anywhere near as dissociated as you suggest.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- fsloth 12y ago
  I would rephrase this as that religious practices of unfamiliar religions can have very little relationship to an individuals spirituality. Obviously some people are very strongly tuned to the religious practices of their religion. Large organizations such as churches all have politics and structure beyond the "core service" they provide. And as social groups they evoke tribalism, cliques, etc, etc. The religious services are one aspect of these organizations that are designed to offer spiritual experiences to the congregation. The organization specifies the framework for these events. The fact that the organization has other aspects as well does not mean it would not fulfill this core service. Does it fulfill it, and to whom, is another question entirely. We probably still lack proper psychological vocabulary to discuss spirituality as a phenomenon of human psyche in disconnect from the metaphysical frameworks that religions offer. As an atheist, I feel "spirituality" - in this context it means perhaps most of all a certain mood and a state of mind - is very important to me. I just don't connect it to any religious framework. I understand that you mean that organized religion does not necessarily have anything to do with spiritual experience but I still think it's quite incorrect to make this into a generalization.
cheath 12y ago
just ordered this. thanks for the recommendation!
kristofferR 12y ago
Here's the first chapter of the book, read by Sam Harris himself: https://soundcloud.com/samharrisorg/waking-up-chapter-one https://soundcloud.com/samharrisorg/waking-up-chapter-one
wakingup 12y ago
For those on food stamps: http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/11017423/Waking_Up__A_Guide_to_Spirituality_Without_Religion_%28Sam_Harris%29 http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/11017423/Waking_Up__A_Guide_t...

by tbastos 12y ago

api 12y ago

IMHO religion has little to do with spirituality. I'm not necessarily saying it's all bad, just that it's all about politics, philosophy, enforcing a certain set of norms to allow cooperation, etc. The relationship of religion to spiritual experience is along the lines of the relationship between space themed fiction like Star Trek to actual space flight.

Alex3917 12y ago
> The relationship of religion to spiritual experience is along the lines of the relationship between space themed fiction like Star Trek to actual space flight. If you look at actual definitions of the word 'religion' used by academics who study religion, there is actually a pretty tight relationship. E.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM-yinhpOgQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM-yinhpOgQ
tomsthumb 12y ago
Religion is a classifying term for a variety of cultural languages in which the vast majority of spirituality has been framed throughout history. Saying they have little to do with one another is, at best, uninformed. One does not necessitate the other, but that does not mean they are anywhere near as dissociated as you suggest.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
fsloth 12y ago
I would rephrase this as that religious practices of unfamiliar religions can have very little relationship to an individuals spirituality. Obviously some people are very strongly tuned to the religious practices of their religion. Large organizations such as churches all have politics and structure beyond the "core service" they provide. And as social groups they evoke tribalism, cliques, etc, etc. The religious services are one aspect of these organizations that are designed to offer spiritual experiences to the congregation. The organization specifies the framework for these events. The fact that the organization has other aspects as well does not mean it would not fulfill this core service. Does it fulfill it, and to whom, is another question entirely. We probably still lack proper psychological vocabulary to discuss spirituality as a phenomenon of human psyche in disconnect from the metaphysical frameworks that religions offer. As an atheist, I feel "spirituality" - in this context it means perhaps most of all a certain mood and a state of mind - is very important to me. I just don't connect it to any religious framework. I understand that you mean that organized religion does not necessarily have anything to do with spiritual experience but I still think it's quite incorrect to make this into a generalization.

cheath 12y ago

just ordered this. thanks for the recommendation!

kristofferR 12y ago

Here's the first chapter of the book, read by Sam Harris himself: https://soundcloud.com/samharrisorg/waking-up-chapter-one https://soundcloud.com/samharrisorg/waking-up-chapter-one

wakingup 12y ago

For those on food stamps: http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/11017423/Waking_Up__A_Guide_to_Spirituality_Without_Religion_%28Sam_Harris%29 http://thepiratebay.se/torrent/11017423/Waking_Up__A_Guide_t...