9 ms·

Big Mayo Files Lawsuit Against Food-Tech Startup Hampton Creek

27 points by Reallynow 12y ago

debacle 12y ago
Upvoted for "big mayo" reference, but this is a pretty obvious case of severe editorial slant. > Now it’s true that FDA’s "standard of identity" (i.e., definition) for mayonnaise includes eggs; well specifically, "egg yolk-containing ingredients" Okay. Case closed. It's not Mayo.
- entee 12y ago
  I think the point is not whether it fits the current standard but whether those standards make sense in an age of innovation. I think consumers are smart enough to figure out whether or not the product they bought is mayonnaise. If it tastes like mayo, works like mayonnaise, smells like mayonnaise, is it not mayonnaise? Who cares if it has eggs, and why are the Feds getting involved anyway?
  - smackfu 12y ago
    Eh, I'd argue the age of innovation for foods started 25 years ago, when we figured out how to make chocolate tasting things without much chocolate, and maple-flavored corn syrup. You can't call that chocolate or maple syrup, so I don't see how mayo is any different.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > I think the point is not whether it fits the current standard but whether those standards make sense in an age of innovation. How does an "age of innovation" benefit from inaccurate product labeling. Its not like mayonnaise-substitutes that vary from the defining ingredients are new -- usually with branding that is evocative of mayonnaise without claiming to be mayonnaise, clearly indicating that it is: (1) something different than mayonnaise, (2) intended to fill the role of mayonnaise. > Who cares if it has eggs, and why are the Feds getting involved anyway? The Feds are concerned about accurate and meaningful food labeling because people being able to rely on food labels and no what they mean is important for both health and safety reasons, and for the ability of consumers to make informed decisions in the marketplace. Misleading labeling benefits only fraudsters.
    - undersuit 12y ago
      Just Mayo >INGREDIENTS: Non-GMO Expeller Pressed Canola Oil, Filtered Water, Lemon Juice, White Vinegar, 2% or less of the following: Organic Sugar, Salt, Pea Protein, Spices, Modified Food Starch, Beta-Carotene.* Hellman's Mayonnaise >SOYBEAN OIL, WATER, WHOLE EGGS AND EGG YOLKS, VINEGAR, SALT, SUGAR, LEMON JUICE, CALCIUM DISODIUM EDTA (USED TO PROTECT QUALITY), NATURAL FLAVORS. GLUTEN-FREE. I don't see any misleading labeling here.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - waterlesscloud 12y ago
    So no doubt the people behind Just Mayo are cool with unlabeled GMO products, right? After all, if it tastes the same, works the same, smells the same... Age of innovation! Disclaimer- I'm fine with most GMO, though I see no reason not to label it as such.
- mcphage 12y ago
  > Okay. Case closed. It's not Mayo. Well, that means it's not mayonnaise. But if they call themselves "mayo" (which doesn't have a standard of identity), and never "mayonnaise", I'm not so sure it's as clear that it's not Mayo.
- abandonliberty 12y ago
  I believe the correct term for these products is "egg-free mayonnaise-like spread". Mayo*, if you will. Anything can be a spread. Think that's jam? No! Fruit spread.
whafro 12y ago
Mayonnaise is oil, egg yolks, and an acid (typically vinegar or lemon juice). If you don't have these things, it's not mayonnaise. It seems like it'd be pretty easy for them to call it "Vegan Mayo," where folks are assuming there's a major substitute for a core ingredient. "Just Mayo," on the other hand, seems to claim the opposite. It's still pretty whiny for Hellmann's/Best Foods/Unilever/Whomever to file the lawsuit, but that doesn't mean they're wrong.
- entee 12y ago
  Neither are a lot of Hellmann’s products. Lots of their products are called "mayonnaise dressing" instead of "mayonnaise" probably because they don’t fit the criteria either. Do you care though? You probably never noticed, and just had a really nice sandwich. The standard is actually super specific: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?CFRPart=169&showFR=1&subpartNode=21:2.0.1.1.41.2 http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRS... for example you have to have at least 65% by weight oil and at least 2.5% acid. If I buy something that has "mayonnaise" on it, then I’m buying "mayonnaise". If my sandwich sucks, then I won’t buy it again. No need for the government to tell me what is and isn’t mayonnaise.
  - ginko 12y ago
    If I buy something that has mayonnaise on it then I'm expecting _mayonnaise_.
    - entee 12y ago
      Fair enough, but if you buy a lot of the mayo products in the condiments aisle, the FDA doesn't think you're getting it. Check it out next time you're in the supermarket, lots of things are dressing and not mayonnaise, but I'll bet you never noticed or cared. I live with someone who's vegan so I've been paying a lot of attention to labels lately. I feel like this is sort of the Turing test of food, given two jars, one FDA-approved and the other not. If you can't tell one from the other, aren't they both mayo?
bryanlarsen 12y ago
Miracle Whip manages to sell in huge quantities without calling themselves "Mayo". If Miracle Whip can do it, so can Hampton Creek.
- Turing_Machine 12y ago
  Exactly. I noted above that Kraft also makes a real mayonnaise, which they call "Kraft Mayo". I'm surprised they're not right in there with Unilever complaining about this.
rayiner 12y ago
So it's called "Just Mayo," mayonnaise being a food product that contains eggs by definition, and has a picture of an egg on its label. But it isn't mayonnaise and doesn't contain eggs. Maybe the hipster irony is just lost on me.
- yebyen 12y ago
  It's a picture of an egg with a plant growing inside of it. I don't really know how much clearer the iconography could actually be. It's mayo, but with some plant product instead of chicken eggs. Were you really deceived, or are you playing devil's advocate? (Edit: parent edited his post, it no longer says "deceptive marketing at its best.") I agree that "mayo" is generally considered to be synonymous with "mayonnaise" and that mayonnaise has a precise definition in the law, but neither of these are a trademark. The law doesn't define "mayo." It defines mayonnaise. It's not clear to me if the standards of "confusingly similar" still apply in cases outside of trademark. I know this is a standard in trademark. It's not like they're marketing a non-dairy "malk", which is obviously OK. Maybe they should change the product name to "Nellman's" and they would be better off. I went looking for any brand of Mayonnaise that markets itself as just "Mayo" and didn't find one.
  - bryanlarsen 12y ago
    To me, that logo looks like a perfect logo for real mayonnaise: it contains the two main ingredients: an egg + a plant representing the oil.
    - waterlesscloud 12y ago
      That label is definitely misleading, and probably intentionally so. Seriously, it features an egg, which it doesn't have.
      - kstenerud 12y ago
        I doubt it was intentionally so. Everything seems painfully obvious in hindsight.
calbear81 12y ago
How about "I can't believe it's not mayo"?
mayneack 12y ago
I'm getting a 500 Internal Service Error https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.eatdrinkpolitics.com/2014/11/09/big-mayo-files-frivolous-lawsuit-against-eggless-competitor/ https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http:/...
smackfu 12y ago
I think the biggest weakness in the complaint is that they have to argue that the shorthand "mayo" is the same as the protected term "mayonnaise," and is controlled by the same rules. The fact that they use dictionary definitions to make that case, rather than federal code, is rather telling. Consider that "chocolaty" is considered a valid workaround for "chocolate", but the dictionary for "chocolaty" says "made of or like chocolate."
verulito 12y ago
Shelf stable mayo is disgusting. Make it at home and compare. None of these companies should be able to call their product mayo. Sure they meet the technical definition of mayo, having at least the ingredients that whafro lists, but they also contain a bunch of other crap that significantly alters the texture and flavor. Just Mayo does seem to be even further from real mayo than most of the competition. I don't see what the big hubub is about. Hellman can pursue all three strategies to win at the same time. Innovate, market, AND sue! Not to defend the system but it's the one we have and I don't blame them for taking advantage of it.
undersuit 12y ago
The Pot calling the kettle black. Traditional Mayonnaise used olive oil, most companies use soybean oil now for it's preservative properties and low price. I can't buy a 100% olive oil mayo, but Hellman's gets to cry about eggs?
robgibbons 12y ago
Rename it to Almost Mayo, and they've got no problems!

27 points by Reallynow 12y ago

Upvoted for "big mayo" reference, but this is a pretty obvious case of severe editorial slant. > Now it’s true that FDA’s "standard of identity" (i.e., definition) for mayonnaise includes eggs; well specifically, "egg yolk-containing ingredients" Okay. Case closed. It's not Mayo.

entee 12y ago
I think the point is not whether it fits the current standard but whether those standards make sense in an age of innovation. I think consumers are smart enough to figure out whether or not the product they bought is mayonnaise. If it tastes like mayo, works like mayonnaise, smells like mayonnaise, is it not mayonnaise? Who cares if it has eggs, and why are the Feds getting involved anyway?
- smackfu 12y ago
  Eh, I'd argue the age of innovation for foods started 25 years ago, when we figured out how to make chocolate tasting things without much chocolate, and maple-flavored corn syrup. You can't call that chocolate or maple syrup, so I don't see how mayo is any different.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > I think the point is not whether it fits the current standard but whether those standards make sense in an age of innovation. How does an "age of innovation" benefit from inaccurate product labeling. Its not like mayonnaise-substitutes that vary from the defining ingredients are new -- usually with branding that is evocative of mayonnaise without claiming to be mayonnaise, clearly indicating that it is: (1) something different than mayonnaise, (2) intended to fill the role of mayonnaise. > Who cares if it has eggs, and why are the Feds getting involved anyway? The Feds are concerned about accurate and meaningful food labeling because people being able to rely on food labels and no what they mean is important for both health and safety reasons, and for the ability of consumers to make informed decisions in the marketplace. Misleading labeling benefits only fraudsters.
  - undersuit 12y ago
    Just Mayo >INGREDIENTS: Non-GMO Expeller Pressed Canola Oil, Filtered Water, Lemon Juice, White Vinegar, 2% or less of the following: Organic Sugar, Salt, Pea Protein, Spices, Modified Food Starch, Beta-Carotene.* Hellman's Mayonnaise >SOYBEAN OIL, WATER, WHOLE EGGS AND EGG YOLKS, VINEGAR, SALT, SUGAR, LEMON JUICE, CALCIUM DISODIUM EDTA (USED TO PROTECT QUALITY), NATURAL FLAVORS. GLUTEN-FREE. I don't see any misleading labeling here.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- waterlesscloud 12y ago
  So no doubt the people behind Just Mayo are cool with unlabeled GMO products, right? After all, if it tastes the same, works the same, smells the same... Age of innovation! Disclaimer- I'm fine with most GMO, though I see no reason not to label it as such.
mcphage 12y ago
> Okay. Case closed. It's not Mayo. Well, that means it's not mayonnaise. But if they call themselves "mayo" (which doesn't have a standard of identity), and never "mayonnaise", I'm not so sure it's as clear that it's not Mayo.
abandonliberty 12y ago
I believe the correct term for these products is "egg-free mayonnaise-like spread". Mayo*, if you will. Anything can be a spread. Think that's jam? No! Fruit spread.

whafro 12y ago

Mayonnaise is oil, egg yolks, and an acid (typically vinegar or lemon juice). If you don't have these things, it's not mayonnaise. It seems like it'd be pretty easy for them to call it "Vegan Mayo," where folks are assuming there's a major substitute for a core ingredient. "Just Mayo," on the other hand, seems to claim the opposite. It's still pretty whiny for Hellmann's/Best Foods/Unilever/Whomever to file the lawsuit, but that doesn't mean they're wrong.

entee 12y ago
Neither are a lot of Hellmann’s products. Lots of their products are called "mayonnaise dressing" instead of "mayonnaise" probably because they don’t fit the criteria either. Do you care though? You probably never noticed, and just had a really nice sandwich. The standard is actually super specific: http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?CFRPart=169&showFR=1&subpartNode=21:2.0.1.1.41.2 http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRS... for example you have to have at least 65% by weight oil and at least 2.5% acid. If I buy something that has "mayonnaise" on it, then I’m buying "mayonnaise". If my sandwich sucks, then I won’t buy it again. No need for the government to tell me what is and isn’t mayonnaise.
- ginko 12y ago
  If I buy something that has mayonnaise on it then I'm expecting _mayonnaise_.
  - entee 12y ago
    Fair enough, but if you buy a lot of the mayo products in the condiments aisle, the FDA doesn't think you're getting it. Check it out next time you're in the supermarket, lots of things are dressing and not mayonnaise, but I'll bet you never noticed or cared. I live with someone who's vegan so I've been paying a lot of attention to labels lately. I feel like this is sort of the Turing test of food, given two jars, one FDA-approved and the other not. If you can't tell one from the other, aren't they both mayo?

bryanlarsen 12y ago

Miracle Whip manages to sell in huge quantities without calling themselves "Mayo". If Miracle Whip can do it, so can Hampton Creek.

Turing_Machine 12y ago
Exactly. I noted above that Kraft also makes a real mayonnaise, which they call "Kraft Mayo". I'm surprised they're not right in there with Unilever complaining about this.

rayiner 12y ago

So it's called "Just Mayo," mayonnaise being a food product that contains eggs by definition, and has a picture of an egg on its label. But it isn't mayonnaise and doesn't contain eggs. Maybe the hipster irony is just lost on me.

yebyen 12y ago
It's a picture of an egg with a plant growing inside of it. I don't really know how much clearer the iconography could actually be. It's mayo, but with some plant product instead of chicken eggs. Were you really deceived, or are you playing devil's advocate? (Edit: parent edited his post, it no longer says "deceptive marketing at its best.") I agree that "mayo" is generally considered to be synonymous with "mayonnaise" and that mayonnaise has a precise definition in the law, but neither of these are a trademark. The law doesn't define "mayo." It defines mayonnaise. It's not clear to me if the standards of "confusingly similar" still apply in cases outside of trademark. I know this is a standard in trademark. It's not like they're marketing a non-dairy "malk", which is obviously OK. Maybe they should change the product name to "Nellman's" and they would be better off. I went looking for any brand of Mayonnaise that markets itself as just "Mayo" and didn't find one.
- bryanlarsen 12y ago
  To me, that logo looks like a perfect logo for real mayonnaise: it contains the two main ingredients: an egg + a plant representing the oil.
  - waterlesscloud 12y ago
    That label is definitely misleading, and probably intentionally so. Seriously, it features an egg, which it doesn't have.
    - kstenerud 12y ago
      I doubt it was intentionally so. Everything seems painfully obvious in hindsight.

calbear81 12y ago

How about "I can't believe it's not mayo"?

mayneack 12y ago

I'm getting a 500 Internal Service Error https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://www.eatdrinkpolitics.com/2014/11/09/big-mayo-files-frivolous-lawsuit-against-eggless-competitor/ https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http:/...

smackfu 12y ago

I think the biggest weakness in the complaint is that they have to argue that the shorthand "mayo" is the same as the protected term "mayonnaise," and is controlled by the same rules. The fact that they use dictionary definitions to make that case, rather than federal code, is rather telling. Consider that "chocolaty" is considered a valid workaround for "chocolate", but the dictionary for "chocolaty" says "made of or like chocolate."

verulito 12y ago

Shelf stable mayo is disgusting. Make it at home and compare. None of these companies should be able to call their product mayo. Sure they meet the technical definition of mayo, having at least the ingredients that whafro lists, but they also contain a bunch of other crap that significantly alters the texture and flavor. Just Mayo does seem to be even further from real mayo than most of the competition. I don't see what the big hubub is about. Hellman can pursue all three strategies to win at the same time. Innovate, market, AND sue! Not to defend the system but it's the one we have and I don't blame them for taking advantage of it.

undersuit 12y ago

The Pot calling the kettle black. Traditional Mayonnaise used olive oil, most companies use soybean oil now for it's preservative properties and low price. I can't buy a 100% olive oil mayo, but Hellman's gets to cry about eggs?

robgibbons 12y ago

Rename it to Almost Mayo, and they've got no problems!