5 ms·

Toward an inclusive hackathon culture

tbrownaw 12y ago
1. Don't be a dick. (Seriously it's a bit disturbing how much work goes in to using lots of words to try to define this explicitly, only to end up with key parts being subjective anyway ("offensive" is in the eye of the beholder, etc).) 2. Don't forget that drowsy driving (say, after staying up hacking all night) is at least as dangerous as drunk driving. (And of course drowsy hacking is just silly, for much the same reason.)
kelukelugames 12y ago
This contains a list of links as opposed to content. Anyway, here are the first two links: https://medium.com/@superandomness/hackathons-are-for-hacking-2bba198ffebd https://medium.com/@superandomness/hackathons-are-for-hackin... http://rubinovitz.com/post/97138278847/the-future-of-hackathons http://rubinovitz.com/post/97138278847/the-future-of-hackath...
gfosco 12y ago
Consider it during judging. I was recently at MHacks as a sponsor, and our 3 top hack choices were half or more than half female. We gave shout-outs to 2 of them, and our sponsor prize to our top choice. At final presentations, the top 14 apps were seated separately from the rest... People started to notice it was an all male group. It looked and felt wrong. There's just no way that all 14 of those teams were more worthy of stage demos, and it's not encouraging for future participation.
- kelukelugames 12y ago
  Can you link the 14 + 3 apps and let us evaluate them? I do believe discrimination exists in our industry and have written about it, but I don't like to automatically assume its the default reason.
  - gfosco 12y ago
    This is the full list: http://mhacks-iv.challengepost.com/submissions http://mhacks-iv.challengepost.com/submissions I can't seem to find a list of the top 14. Here's an article than mentions a few of them: http://t.co/DdOmmQiaLY http://t.co/DdOmmQiaLY The ones we liked: Leaftagger (a very useful developer tool for iOS developers) http://mhacks-iv.challengepost.com/submissions/26195-leaftagger http://mhacks-iv.challengepost.com/submissions/26195-leaftag... Comfort App (not my favorite idea, but the entire process worked flawlessly, and it was very polished.) http://mhacks-iv.challengepost.com/submissions/26197-comfort http://mhacks-iv.challengepost.com/submissions/26197-comfort FB Crypt - I normally super-hate any sort of browser extensions at hackathons, but seamlessly PGP encrypting/decrypting Facebook Chat was a great challenge. http://mhacks-iv.challengepost.com/submissions/26314-fb-crypt http://mhacks-iv.challengepost.com/submissions/26314-fb-cryp... Another trend I see is that if the hack appears sexy or innovative, even if it is not, it will go far. Android for iPhone took 2nd place... It was pitched as if an AOSP copy of Android was running on the phone, but quickly became clear it is just screen sharing like VNC. I've become a serious hackathon judging critic. YC Hacks finalist group was mostly embarrassing.
    - kelukelugames 12y ago
      Thanks for sharing the links. To be honest, I am not well-informed enough to judge them. As for: "Another trend I see is that if the hack appears sexy or innovative...it will go far." I hate that too, but now accept it as reality. I am actively working on my showmanship.
tedks 12y ago
It's depressing that in 2014 this is something being discussed at all. It's equally depressing that otherwise intelligent people will try to argue against codes of conduct, not realizing that as white men, they have literally no say in the matter (or at least shouldn't, even though many throw around their weight and privilege in order to disrupt things). I'd think that in a community so forward-looking and forward-thinking, people would have enough sense to be on the right side of history, instead of going down with the ship clutching their confederate dollars.
- tbrownaw 12y ago
  not realizing that as white men, they have literally no say in the matter ...Wait, we're excluding people from discussions on the basis of race and gender now? And calling that "forward-thinking"?
  - tedks 12y ago
    Uh, yes, when it comes to women's safety and women's rights, men have literally nothing to add to the discussion. It isn't the 1800s. Men do not own women's bodies or spaces. Thinking that your opinion is universally relevant is simple entitlement.
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  > It's equally depressing that otherwise intelligent people will try to argue against codes of conduct, not realizing that as white men, they have literally no say in the matter If its codes of conduct for a community they are part of, they certainly do have a say (and can reasonably expected to leave the community and form their own if they are denied that say.)
  - tedks 12y ago
    WOMAN: I find it creepy and threatening when men hit on me at hackathons and I'd like it to stop. MAN: But what about my right to have a say in the communities I'm a part of? ...yeah.
jey 12y ago
What is the exact problem with someone saying "One of the reasons I attend hackathons is to hit on chicks"? Is it the phrasing or the concept itself? Would it be more acceptable to say "One of the reasons I attend hackathons is to meet interesting and attractive women", or is the idea itself the problem? I can definitely imagine someone objecting to being described as "a chick" instead of "a woman". However, I don't mind being described as "a dude", and I don't really understand the difference between the two.
- tedks 12y ago
  It's the concept. It objectifies women. A hackfest is not a nightclub or a dating site. Having to constantly turn down sexual advances is awkward, and many times physically dangerous, and it has an effect of excluding women from spaces. It's basic male entitlement to think that women should be receptive to their advances, at any time and in any place. Having to fend off creepy, socially awkward men makes conferences and the tech field as a whole incredibly hard to be in as a woman, and as a result, computer science is dragging literally all of STEM down with its grossly imbalanced gender ratio.
  - tbrownaw 12y ago
    It's basic male entitlement to think that women should be receptive to their advances, at any time and in any place. ...Yeah, that's bullshit (and offensive misandrist bullshit at that). There's nothing gender-specific, and nothing to do with "entitlement". It's more failure to recognize that someone who's busy with something they like, probably won't enjoy being interrupted (no matter how much the topic is something you like).
    - tedks 12y ago
      Haha, "misandry." Great way to out yourself as a redpiller; I sincerely hope you gain the emotional maturity necessary to overcome your mail privilege/entitlement and have a fulfilling life.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago

1. Don't be a dick. (Seriously it's a bit disturbing how much work goes in to using lots of words to try to define this explicitly, only to end up with key parts being subjective anyway ("offensive" is in the eye of the beholder, etc).) 2. Don't forget that drowsy driving (say, after staying up hacking all night) is at least as dangerous as drunk driving. (And of course drowsy hacking is just silly, for much the same reason.)

kelukelugames 12y ago

This contains a list of links as opposed to content. Anyway, here are the first two links: https://medium.com/@superandomness/hackathons-are-for-hacking-2bba198ffebd https://medium.com/@superandomness/hackathons-are-for-hackin... http://rubinovitz.com/post/97138278847/the-future-of-hackathons http://rubinovitz.com/post/97138278847/the-future-of-hackath...

gfosco 12y ago

Consider it during judging. I was recently at MHacks as a sponsor, and our 3 top hack choices were half or more than half female. We gave shout-outs to 2 of them, and our sponsor prize to our top choice. At final presentations, the top 14 apps were seated separately from the rest... People started to notice it was an all male group. It looked and felt wrong. There's just no way that all 14 of those teams were more worthy of stage demos, and it's not encouraging for future participation.

kelukelugames 12y ago
Can you link the 14 + 3 apps and let us evaluate them? I do believe discrimination exists in our industry and have written about it, but I don't like to automatically assume its the default reason.
- gfosco 12y ago
  This is the full list: http://mhacks-iv.challengepost.com/submissions http://mhacks-iv.challengepost.com/submissions I can't seem to find a list of the top 14. Here's an article than mentions a few of them: http://t.co/DdOmmQiaLY http://t.co/DdOmmQiaLY The ones we liked: Leaftagger (a very useful developer tool for iOS developers) http://mhacks-iv.challengepost.com/submissions/26195-leaftagger http://mhacks-iv.challengepost.com/submissions/26195-leaftag... Comfort App (not my favorite idea, but the entire process worked flawlessly, and it was very polished.) http://mhacks-iv.challengepost.com/submissions/26197-comfort http://mhacks-iv.challengepost.com/submissions/26197-comfort FB Crypt - I normally super-hate any sort of browser extensions at hackathons, but seamlessly PGP encrypting/decrypting Facebook Chat was a great challenge. http://mhacks-iv.challengepost.com/submissions/26314-fb-crypt http://mhacks-iv.challengepost.com/submissions/26314-fb-cryp... Another trend I see is that if the hack appears sexy or innovative, even if it is not, it will go far. Android for iPhone took 2nd place... It was pitched as if an AOSP copy of Android was running on the phone, but quickly became clear it is just screen sharing like VNC. I've become a serious hackathon judging critic. YC Hacks finalist group was mostly embarrassing.
  - kelukelugames 12y ago
    Thanks for sharing the links. To be honest, I am not well-informed enough to judge them. As for: "Another trend I see is that if the hack appears sexy or innovative...it will go far." I hate that too, but now accept it as reality. I am actively working on my showmanship.

tedks 12y ago

It's depressing that in 2014 this is something being discussed at all. It's equally depressing that otherwise intelligent people will try to argue against codes of conduct, not realizing that as white men, they have literally no say in the matter (or at least shouldn't, even though many throw around their weight and privilege in order to disrupt things). I'd think that in a community so forward-looking and forward-thinking, people would have enough sense to be on the right side of history, instead of going down with the ship clutching their confederate dollars.

tbrownaw 12y ago
not realizing that as white men, they have literally no say in the matter ...Wait, we're excluding people from discussions on the basis of race and gender now? And calling that "forward-thinking"?
- tedks 12y ago
  Uh, yes, when it comes to women's safety and women's rights, men have literally nothing to add to the discussion. It isn't the 1800s. Men do not own women's bodies or spaces. Thinking that your opinion is universally relevant is simple entitlement.
dragonwriter 12y ago
> It's equally depressing that otherwise intelligent people will try to argue against codes of conduct, not realizing that as white men, they have literally no say in the matter If its codes of conduct for a community they are part of, they certainly do have a say (and can reasonably expected to leave the community and form their own if they are denied that say.)
- tedks 12y ago
  WOMAN: I find it creepy and threatening when men hit on me at hackathons and I'd like it to stop. MAN: But what about my right to have a say in the communities I'm a part of? ...yeah.

jey 12y ago

What is the exact problem with someone saying "One of the reasons I attend hackathons is to hit on chicks"? Is it the phrasing or the concept itself? Would it be more acceptable to say "One of the reasons I attend hackathons is to meet interesting and attractive women", or is the idea itself the problem? I can definitely imagine someone objecting to being described as "a chick" instead of "a woman". However, I don't mind being described as "a dude", and I don't really understand the difference between the two.

tedks 12y ago
It's the concept. It objectifies women. A hackfest is not a nightclub or a dating site. Having to constantly turn down sexual advances is awkward, and many times physically dangerous, and it has an effect of excluding women from spaces. It's basic male entitlement to think that women should be receptive to their advances, at any time and in any place. Having to fend off creepy, socially awkward men makes conferences and the tech field as a whole incredibly hard to be in as a woman, and as a result, computer science is dragging literally all of STEM down with its grossly imbalanced gender ratio.
- tbrownaw 12y ago
  It's basic male entitlement to think that women should be receptive to their advances, at any time and in any place. ...Yeah, that's bullshit (and offensive misandrist bullshit at that). There's nothing gender-specific, and nothing to do with "entitlement". It's more failure to recognize that someone who's busy with something they like, probably won't enjoy being interrupted (no matter how much the topic is something you like).
  - tedks 12y ago
    Haha, "misandry." Great way to out yourself as a redpiller; I sincerely hope you gain the emotional maturity necessary to overcome your mail privilege/entitlement and have a fulfilling life.
- dragonwriter 12y ago