13 ms·

Conjecture Regarding Larger iPhone Displays

51 points by rkudeshi 12y ago

themodelplumber 12y ago
This article would be awesome with some mockups. Gruber's next "and another thing" in these incredible what-ifs could be some DF artwork. (BTW does anybody else drop their large-screen phone a lot or is it just me? I really love the extra screen space but holding onto it is not as easy as it was with a smaller phone)
comex 12y ago
I know I'm in a small minority here (at least, judging by the years of clamor for larger iPhones), but I almost always use my iPhone one-handed, so I'm very skeptical about any larger display. Currently, when holding it in a relaxed position, my thumb can reach a bit to the left of or above the current display, but not both - there would probably be a difficult to reach zone in the top left corner. A larger size would also make my grip less stable. To be fair, I don't have that much actual experience with larger phones, but I did switch to a Galaxy S4 for a few weeks last year, and while it wasn't completely unusable one handed or anything, the unwieldiness of doing so was one of the things that made me happy to get my iPhone back. But it looks like I'll soon be left behind if I want to continue using iOS...
- wahsd 12y ago
  I totally agree. The thing that makes iOS even worse for larger screen sizes than the bad experience on Android is that iOS icons auto-align themselves about in the worse possible place, the top left of the screen. I've argued with a somewhat prominent advocate of certain touch behaviors, but it simply makes far more sense that interactive elements be ordered by priority from the bottom of the screen where they are most accessible by one handed users.
- baddox 12y ago
  I'm with you. I would still gladly take an iPhone 5s with the 3:2 form factor screen from the iPhone 4s.
  - andrewSC 12y ago
    Same.
- erikpukinskis 12y ago
  Yeah, one-handed use is one of the best things about the iPhone. I switched to Android (Moto X) several months ago from an iPhone 5s. I've been using it one-handed, but it is really painful. By the afternoon I start getting cramps in my thumb. Reaching for the home/keyboard/app menu/etc buttons is just really awkward. And the Moto X is one of the smallest screen Android phones you can get. Part of it is that Android just isn't designed for one-handed use, but the limited width is a big part of it too.
cnbuff410 12y ago
Okay, I'm not trying to be a dick here. But everytime when I see the rumor about the screen size of iPhone 6, it always remind me how Gruber and Jim Dalrymple, two of the biggest Apple fans on the internet, mock the screen size of Samsung Note before. Note became instantly popular in Asia area and I always thought there are big market for big phones. I even argued with Jim on his G+ saying there are someone who genuinely likes it, they could not believe. Yes, of course, the 4 inches iPhone is perfect. THERE IS NO OTHER SIZE COULD FIT BETTER IN HUMAN"S HAND. Right? Right? How times change. refs: 1 Why Apple should sidestep the ‘Phablet’: http://www.loopinsight.com/2013/03/12/why-apple-should-sidestep-the-phablet/ http://www.loopinsight.com/2013/03/12/why-apple-should-sides... 2 Samsung Galaxy Note and a Radio Flyer wagon: http://www.loopinsight.com/2012/02/08/samsung-galaxy-note-and-a-radio-flyer-wagon/ http://www.loopinsight.com/2012/02/08/samsung-galaxy-note-an... 3 Galaxy Note is so big it’s in a timezone of its own: http://www.loopinsight.com/2012/02/15/galaxy-note-is-so-big-its-in-a-timezone-of-its-own/ http://www.loopinsight.com/2012/02/15/galaxy-note-is-so-big-... 4 Samsung’s Galaxy Note Is the Most Useless Phone Jonathan Geller Has Ever Used: http://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/02/15/geller-galaxy-note http://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/02/15/geller-galaxy-no... 5 Samsung’s Super-Sized Galaxy Note: http://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/02/15/techblock-galaxy-note http://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/02/15/techblock-galaxy...
- ebiester 12y ago
  To be fair, one of the reasons that I went back from the galaxy was because I actually preferred the smaller phone. I have a friend who was happy with his 4S but bought a 5S because he was afraid he wouldn't have the option of a smaller phone.
  - cnbuff410 12y ago
    I'm not saying big screen is for everyone. I'm simply pointing out how stubborn and blind they were. They were not defending small screen. They were basically saying big screen is useless, stupid, and bad fit for your hand if you are normal human. Oh well.
    - 12y ago
pervycreeper 12y ago
A thought just occurred to me: if the subpixel geometry is based on multiple of 2 on a "3x" pixel device (say, moving from rgb to "pentile"), that would allow for "sharp" rendering of "2x" assets if everything was arranged appropriately.
eurleif 12y ago
Just a random anecdote, but I was in a T-Mobile store a couple of weeks ago, and I overheard some random woman looking at phones. When she saw the iPhone, her immediate reaction was: "Ew, oh my god, the screen is so tiny! That's awful!"
- e28eta 12y ago
  I've gotten a similar reaction: I was asked why my iPhone was so small by my gf's mom, who is (apparently) not very familiar with smartphones. I don't think I want a larger phone, but I can understand why Apple might make them.
acqq 12y ago
So what is then the rationale for the "bigger" variant not being also 326 DPI? That would give something like 1562 x 878 display for the 5.5 inch one. Less pixels, therefore faster. The difference between 326 and 461 DPI is most probably not discernible for most of the people. Another advantage: not needing one more target resolution of the resources. And another: no need for the new scale for the pixel masks by production.
- LazyGhost 12y ago
  Gruber does mention his rationale for not using a resolution that's close to this. Under "Other Resolutions" he says: 1564 × 880 is feasible for a 5.5-inch phone. That’s what you get if you maintain the 326 pixels-per-inch density and @2x scale. This would increase area — the number of points displayed on screen — by a whopping 89 percent. But it wouldn’t increase the size of what you see at all. I think the sweet spot for a 5.5-inch phone requires you see to more content and to make what you see at least a little bit bigger. So that’s why I’d bet against 1564 × 880. (1564 × 880 would be implausible for the 4.7-inch phone: it would render UI elements and text 15 percent smaller than all previous iPhones.)
  - acqq 12y ago
    Thanks. To "see more content" is actually fulfilled with 1564 × 880. To "make what you see at least a little bit bigger" (seems he thinks that the icons and the text should be visually bigger when holding the phone in front of you at the same distance as before? why? it's still a phone) results either in needing the new resources or leaving the pixel perfectness (which won't happen for Apple) -- I don't buy it. But let's see if he actually got the insider information about something so non-obvious.
ggreer 12y ago
I hope Apple segments their phones and makes smaller screens as well. I want something small enough that it practically disappears in my pocket. My ideal phone would be the size of a 4th-gen iPod Nano.[1] Business-wise, large screens make a lot of sense. Most people want them. They're great for people with poor eyesight, especially older people who won't admit they need bifocals. Women usually carry purses, so comfortably fitting in a small pocket isn't an issue. And of course, larger screens look better side-by-side. A lot of consumers are enticed by the immediate appeal of a larger screen. They forget they'll have to lug around a heavier phone that is harder to hold. I've looked around, but I haven't been able to find any smartphone that's as small as an iPod Nano. If anyone has suggestions, I'm all ears. 1. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IPod_Nano_4G_black_crop.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IPod_Nano_4G_black_c...
drcode 12y ago
I think now that retina is widely adopted, Apple no longer needs to worry about 2x, 3x, etc. Even if the phones are 1.457x or whatever, I bet iOS8 will just do its best to scale elements as needed- Since the resolutions are so high already, a scaling error of a fraction of a retina pixel is totally not noticeable.
- geon 12y ago
  > a scaling error of a fraction of a retina pixel is totally not noticeable. Wat? For a photo it can be acceptable. Not great, but acceptable. For UI elements, it is horrible. Smudgy, blurry edge makes no one happy.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
dmishe 12y ago
Wouldn't it be cool if they made 5" model just to screw with rumors and then release something entirely different.
jhugg 12y ago
If @3x is a thing, wouldn't 1080p be kind of an Occam's Razor resolution for a 4.7 device? Besides the fact that 1080p is common and marketable, it would be the perfect resolution to mirror to an AppleTV. And having both the 4.7 & 5.5 phones be @3x would motivate developers more to add @3x assets. If the 5.5 phone is the only @3x device in Apple's lineup for a while, it might be tempting not to invest. And then a 4K (3840x2160) at @3x might be perfect for a 12.x inch iPad. That would mirror perfectly to 1080p or 4K TVs. It would be 16x9, which is hard to imagine, but mirroring to projectors might be more important for a 12" iPad than the smaller ones? I could really see it used in presentations and education. I say go with the standard resolutions when in doubt, even though there is no real Apple precedent. (edit to add content)

51 points by rkudeshi 12y ago

This article would be awesome with some mockups. Gruber's next "and another thing" in these incredible what-ifs could be some DF artwork. (BTW does anybody else drop their large-screen phone a lot or is it just me? I really love the extra screen space but holding onto it is not as easy as it was with a smaller phone)

comex 12y ago

I know I'm in a small minority here (at least, judging by the years of clamor for larger iPhones), but I almost always use my iPhone one-handed, so I'm very skeptical about any larger display. Currently, when holding it in a relaxed position, my thumb can reach a bit to the left of or above the current display, but not both - there would probably be a difficult to reach zone in the top left corner. A larger size would also make my grip less stable. To be fair, I don't have that much actual experience with larger phones, but I did switch to a Galaxy S4 for a few weeks last year, and while it wasn't completely unusable one handed or anything, the unwieldiness of doing so was one of the things that made me happy to get my iPhone back. But it looks like I'll soon be left behind if I want to continue using iOS...

wahsd 12y ago
I totally agree. The thing that makes iOS even worse for larger screen sizes than the bad experience on Android is that iOS icons auto-align themselves about in the worse possible place, the top left of the screen. I've argued with a somewhat prominent advocate of certain touch behaviors, but it simply makes far more sense that interactive elements be ordered by priority from the bottom of the screen where they are most accessible by one handed users.
baddox 12y ago
I'm with you. I would still gladly take an iPhone 5s with the 3:2 form factor screen from the iPhone 4s.
- andrewSC 12y ago
  Same.
erikpukinskis 12y ago
Yeah, one-handed use is one of the best things about the iPhone. I switched to Android (Moto X) several months ago from an iPhone 5s. I've been using it one-handed, but it is really painful. By the afternoon I start getting cramps in my thumb. Reaching for the home/keyboard/app menu/etc buttons is just really awkward. And the Moto X is one of the smallest screen Android phones you can get. Part of it is that Android just isn't designed for one-handed use, but the limited width is a big part of it too.

cnbuff410 12y ago

Okay, I'm not trying to be a dick here. But everytime when I see the rumor about the screen size of iPhone 6, it always remind me how Gruber and Jim Dalrymple, two of the biggest Apple fans on the internet, mock the screen size of Samsung Note before. Note became instantly popular in Asia area and I always thought there are big market for big phones. I even argued with Jim on his G+ saying there are someone who genuinely likes it, they could not believe. Yes, of course, the 4 inches iPhone is perfect. THERE IS NO OTHER SIZE COULD FIT BETTER IN HUMAN"S HAND. Right? Right? How times change. refs: 1 Why Apple should sidestep the ‘Phablet’: http://www.loopinsight.com/2013/03/12/why-apple-should-sidestep-the-phablet/ http://www.loopinsight.com/2013/03/12/why-apple-should-sides... 2 Samsung Galaxy Note and a Radio Flyer wagon: http://www.loopinsight.com/2012/02/08/samsung-galaxy-note-and-a-radio-flyer-wagon/ http://www.loopinsight.com/2012/02/08/samsung-galaxy-note-an... 3 Galaxy Note is so big it’s in a timezone of its own: http://www.loopinsight.com/2012/02/15/galaxy-note-is-so-big-its-in-a-timezone-of-its-own/ http://www.loopinsight.com/2012/02/15/galaxy-note-is-so-big-... 4 Samsung’s Galaxy Note Is the Most Useless Phone Jonathan Geller Has Ever Used: http://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/02/15/geller-galaxy-note http://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/02/15/geller-galaxy-no... 5 Samsung’s Super-Sized Galaxy Note: http://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/02/15/techblock-galaxy-note http://daringfireball.net/linked/2012/02/15/techblock-galaxy...

ebiester 12y ago
To be fair, one of the reasons that I went back from the galaxy was because I actually preferred the smaller phone. I have a friend who was happy with his 4S but bought a 5S because he was afraid he wouldn't have the option of a smaller phone.
- cnbuff410 12y ago
  I'm not saying big screen is for everyone. I'm simply pointing out how stubborn and blind they were. They were not defending small screen. They were basically saying big screen is useless, stupid, and bad fit for your hand if you are normal human. Oh well.
  - 12y ago

pervycreeper 12y ago

A thought just occurred to me: if the subpixel geometry is based on multiple of 2 on a "3x" pixel device (say, moving from rgb to "pentile"), that would allow for "sharp" rendering of "2x" assets if everything was arranged appropriately.

eurleif 12y ago

Just a random anecdote, but I was in a T-Mobile store a couple of weeks ago, and I overheard some random woman looking at phones. When she saw the iPhone, her immediate reaction was: "Ew, oh my god, the screen is so tiny! That's awful!"

e28eta 12y ago
I've gotten a similar reaction: I was asked why my iPhone was so small by my gf's mom, who is (apparently) not very familiar with smartphones. I don't think I want a larger phone, but I can understand why Apple might make them.

acqq 12y ago

So what is then the rationale for the "bigger" variant not being also 326 DPI? That would give something like 1562 x 878 display for the 5.5 inch one. Less pixels, therefore faster. The difference between 326 and 461 DPI is most probably not discernible for most of the people. Another advantage: not needing one more target resolution of the resources. And another: no need for the new scale for the pixel masks by production.

LazyGhost 12y ago
Gruber does mention his rationale for not using a resolution that's close to this. Under "Other Resolutions" he says: 1564 × 880 is feasible for a 5.5-inch phone. That’s what you get if you maintain the 326 pixels-per-inch density and @2x scale. This would increase area — the number of points displayed on screen — by a whopping 89 percent. But it wouldn’t increase the size of what you see at all. I think the sweet spot for a 5.5-inch phone requires you see to more content and to make what you see at least a little bit bigger. So that’s why I’d bet against 1564 × 880. (1564 × 880 would be implausible for the 4.7-inch phone: it would render UI elements and text 15 percent smaller than all previous iPhones.)
- acqq 12y ago
  Thanks. To "see more content" is actually fulfilled with 1564 × 880. To "make what you see at least a little bit bigger" (seems he thinks that the icons and the text should be visually bigger when holding the phone in front of you at the same distance as before? why? it's still a phone) results either in needing the new resources or leaving the pixel perfectness (which won't happen for Apple) -- I don't buy it. But let's see if he actually got the insider information about something so non-obvious.

ggreer 12y ago

I hope Apple segments their phones and makes smaller screens as well. I want something small enough that it practically disappears in my pocket. My ideal phone would be the size of a 4th-gen iPod Nano.[1] Business-wise, large screens make a lot of sense. Most people want them. They're great for people with poor eyesight, especially older people who won't admit they need bifocals. Women usually carry purses, so comfortably fitting in a small pocket isn't an issue. And of course, larger screens look better side-by-side. A lot of consumers are enticed by the immediate appeal of a larger screen. They forget they'll have to lug around a heavier phone that is harder to hold. I've looked around, but I haven't been able to find any smartphone that's as small as an iPod Nano. If anyone has suggestions, I'm all ears. 1. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IPod_Nano_4G_black_crop.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IPod_Nano_4G_black_c...

drcode 12y ago

I think now that retina is widely adopted, Apple no longer needs to worry about 2x, 3x, etc. Even if the phones are 1.457x or whatever, I bet iOS8 will just do its best to scale elements as needed- Since the resolutions are so high already, a scaling error of a fraction of a retina pixel is totally not noticeable.

geon 12y ago
> a scaling error of a fraction of a retina pixel is totally not noticeable. Wat? For a photo it can be acceptable. Not great, but acceptable. For UI elements, it is horrible. Smudgy, blurry edge makes no one happy.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

dmishe 12y ago

Wouldn't it be cool if they made 5" model just to screw with rumors and then release something entirely different.

jhugg 12y ago

If @3x is a thing, wouldn't 1080p be kind of an Occam's Razor resolution for a 4.7 device? Besides the fact that 1080p is common and marketable, it would be the perfect resolution to mirror to an AppleTV. And having both the 4.7 & 5.5 phones be @3x would motivate developers more to add @3x assets. If the 5.5 phone is the only @3x device in Apple's lineup for a while, it might be tempting not to invest. And then a 4K (3840x2160) at @3x might be perfect for a 12.x inch iPad. That would mirror perfectly to 1080p or 4K TVs. It would be 16x9, which is hard to imagine, but mirroring to projectors might be more important for a 12" iPad than the smaller ones? I could really see it used in presentations and education. I say go with the standard resolutions when in doubt, even though there is no real Apple precedent. (edit to add content)