5 ms·

Anyone who has ever donated to a church is in the same boat. You would be hard pressed to not find someone who hasn't given money to a church in some form, and

by Tohhou 12y ago

Anyone who has ever donated to a church is in the same boat. You would be hard pressed to not find someone who hasn't given money to a church in some form, and equally hard pressed to not find a church which is not anti-gay, has not had any anti-gay activity at all in any form. They are all scum. None are fit to have jobs anywhere. It would be better for those who have been leaders of companies, leading them to prosperity, to burn than let them stay - fire them all, everyone. Yes, you too. Not just Christianity but Judaism or Islam which are even more explicitly anti-gay - logically anyone who is a Jew or Muslim should be targeted next by the social justice witch hunt. Edit: Many downvotes! Self righteous hypocrites rejoice! You enable anti-gay hate. You disgust me.

mcv 12y ago
> You would be hard pressed to not find someone who hasn't given money to a church in some form, and equally hard pressed to not find a church which is not anti-gay You're not looking very hard. Churches vary a lot, especially once you start looking outside arch-conservative US. There are churches that have gay vicars. Lots of churches have not had any anti-gay activity. The WBC is not exactly average.
- Tohhou 12y ago
  You really think supporting homosexuals is a common trait in churches anywhere? "Being gay isn't bad if you don't act on it." Oh, yeah, sure. Totally not anti-gay. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gay/long.htm http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gay/long.htm Anyone who thinks this book is golden is anti-gay no matter how they spin their politics.
  - masklinn 12y ago
    Careful with these goalposts, you're destroying the turf.
  - 67726e 12y ago
    That's the fun thing about most religious folks. They pick and choose which parts of <HOLY BOOK> to follow. Not to pick on anyone in particular, but ever heard the term "Cafeteria Christianity"[0]? It seems that following the entirety of a religion would be rather hard unless you quickly dive into the sticky situation of saying which parts are valid and which are not. [0] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cafeteria_Christianity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cafeteria_Christianity
    - mcv 12y ago
      Yeah, it's so hypocritical to only follow the words of Jesus Christ, and ignore all the older stuff that's contradicted or overridden by Jesus. Like they don't even know why their religion is called Leviticianity.
- Cuuugi 12y ago
  It's a fair jump from "Anti-gay" Church to WBC. So you go to a hippy church, that's great. You said it yourself, churches vary a lot but most side on the homosexuality being a bad thing.
  - mcv 12y ago
    I don't go to a hippy church at all. In fact, the church I go to is member of what's generally considered to be a pretty orthodox reformed denomination. But it's not American, and maybe that's what makes the difference here. I'm not claiming that nobody in my church is anti-gay. I know of another orthodox reformed church in Amsterdam where some people have objected to a lesbian couple's participation in some sacraments. I don't doubt that in more rural areas, that attitude is more common. But it's not remotely universal. But I wouldn't even count the more liberal church of the late famous Dutch gay TV presenter and vicar Jos Brink as a "hippy church".
    - Cuuugi 12y ago
      So you're dutch... that explains your arrogant anti-american sentiment. The only point i am trying to make is you should try to understand a person's culture before understanding their actions. For what it's worth, i'm from Canada.
      - mcv 12y ago
        Because people are making so much effort to understand Christianity here. All I'm saying is that the claim that all churches are anti-gay unless they are hippy churches, is plain false. If it seems true where you live, then maybe that says something about the culture where you live. Don't blame that on some general Christianity straw man.
        Cuuugi 12y ago
        Modern Christianity has splintered due to the billions of different interpretations on the bible. Just because they don't promote their feelings on the subject doesnt mean they're pro-gay. Homophobia it's core was rooted in religous teachings, no matter which one, they all have a history of Homophobia. Your Country's efforts aren't closer to the truth, they are just more palitable for its people. It may be a straw man to blame Christianity, but it certainly isn't to blame religon in general. I dont think I ever said "all" churches are anti-gay, but most when you really put in the reasearch are. You seem to be more anti-American than anything else, maybe you should travel a bit more, or at least avoid the typical eurotrash circlejerks. Bush has been out of office for 6 years now. Get over it.
adventured 12y ago
Nice to meet you. I'm your hard pressed example, there are millions like me in the US.
- Tohhou 12y ago
  Is your bible the inerrant word of your god? If not then does it have any legitimacy? Is homosexuality a sin? I have yet to find someone like you who who at some point does not admit they are anti-gay. They say they are not, and then you find out they are due to holding two contradictory views at once. Even then you've never given money to any church than ones you know for a fact are 100% not anti-gay, have no one in power who is not anti-gay? That is the parallel.
  - adventured 12y ago
    What are you talking about? I'm your hard pressed example that has never given money to a church. I also support true equality: the complete removal of any government involvement in marriage. All consenting adults should be able to get married without any government permission or regulation. No future group of persons should have to ask the government for permission to exercise the rights that do not belong to the government to begin with. If the government believes it gives you such rights, some future politician will find it all too easy to believe they have a right to revoke them.
    - Tohhou 12y ago
      Read my post I gave two examples and you were not specific. > has never given money to a church. I am doubtful, because even if you managed to never go to any church and never give a cent at any age, you can still give money to churches through institutions which seem secular. The Salvation Army is anti-gay and collects money every year from most popular store fronts. Never given them a cent? Never purchased Purina brand dog food? Never paid for anything related to Exxon? You can't know what money you give to someone or pay for something which which ultimately doesn't fuel anti-gay agenda. That's my point.
      - 12y ago
goatforce5 12y ago
May I present the Metropolitan Community Church: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Community_Church http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Community_Church And i've not been keeping a list or anything, but plenty of churches in my part of the world have rainbow flag stickers on their signs/noticeboards. I went to watch the local Pride parade a few years ago and was bored by the number of churches marching in the parade. (It's great that you're actively showing your support, but at least put some effort in to do something fun during the parade. Sheesh!)
- Tohhou 12y ago
  Leviticus Homosexual acts are an abomination to God. 18:22 If a man has sex with another man, kill them both. 20:13 Something about wanting their cake and eating it too. Beside this, my point is that even if people join this church, they have undoubtedly donated money to an anti-gay church in the past, which makes them forever unworthy apparently.
  - i80and 12y ago
    For the record, that's nonsense: the Levitical laws are typically not taken as binding for Christians. The reasons for that are surprisingly straightforward (see: entire NT), but this is a rather silly tangent issue on an already-silly thread and is just not the forum. And no, while I've given money to a church, it is not anti-gay, thankyouverymuch.
    - Tohhou 12y ago
      >the Levitical laws are typically not taken as binding for Christians http://www.evilbible.com/do_not_ignore_ot.htm http://www.evilbible.com/do_not_ignore_ot.htm
      - i80and 12y ago
        The purpose of the Law was to keep his Covenant separate and in line until Christ came to fulfill (you might see that word in your link) the Law's function. Galatians 5:14 (referencing Matthew 22:38 no doubt): "For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'" Additionally, translation difficulties make a lot of sexual concepts tricky to relate to contemporary cultural English (since our modern conceptualization of sex is thankfully quite a bit different from the ancient world). And anyway this is all moot, because unless you subscribe to Replacement theology (which I'm not familiar with, so do not have an opinion on), very few Christians are part of Israel. EDIT: Scratch that last paragraph: now that I think about it, Peter's vision in Acts 10 rendered dietary uncleanness and circumcision---part of the Law---null and void even though he was a Jew and so part of Israel. So maybe even Jewish Christians aren't under the Law? I'm not sure, TBH.

by Tohhou 12y ago

mcv 12y ago

> You would be hard pressed to not find someone who hasn't given money to a church in some form, and equally hard pressed to not find a church which is not anti-gay You're not looking very hard. Churches vary a lot, especially once you start looking outside arch-conservative US. There are churches that have gay vicars. Lots of churches have not had any anti-gay activity. The WBC is not exactly average.

Tohhou 12y ago
You really think supporting homosexuals is a common trait in churches anywhere? "Being gay isn't bad if you don't act on it." Oh, yeah, sure. Totally not anti-gay. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gay/long.htm http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gay/long.htm Anyone who thinks this book is golden is anti-gay no matter how they spin their politics.
- masklinn 12y ago
  Careful with these goalposts, you're destroying the turf.
- 67726e 12y ago
  That's the fun thing about most religious folks. They pick and choose which parts of <HOLY BOOK> to follow. Not to pick on anyone in particular, but ever heard the term "Cafeteria Christianity"[0]? It seems that following the entirety of a religion would be rather hard unless you quickly dive into the sticky situation of saying which parts are valid and which are not. [0] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cafeteria_Christianity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cafeteria_Christianity
  - mcv 12y ago
    Yeah, it's so hypocritical to only follow the words of Jesus Christ, and ignore all the older stuff that's contradicted or overridden by Jesus. Like they don't even know why their religion is called Leviticianity.
Cuuugi 12y ago
It's a fair jump from "Anti-gay" Church to WBC. So you go to a hippy church, that's great. You said it yourself, churches vary a lot but most side on the homosexuality being a bad thing.
- mcv 12y ago
  I don't go to a hippy church at all. In fact, the church I go to is member of what's generally considered to be a pretty orthodox reformed denomination. But it's not American, and maybe that's what makes the difference here. I'm not claiming that nobody in my church is anti-gay. I know of another orthodox reformed church in Amsterdam where some people have objected to a lesbian couple's participation in some sacraments. I don't doubt that in more rural areas, that attitude is more common. But it's not remotely universal. But I wouldn't even count the more liberal church of the late famous Dutch gay TV presenter and vicar Jos Brink as a "hippy church".
  - Cuuugi 12y ago
    So you're dutch... that explains your arrogant anti-american sentiment. The only point i am trying to make is you should try to understand a person's culture before understanding their actions. For what it's worth, i'm from Canada.
    - mcv 12y ago
      Because people are making so much effort to understand Christianity here. All I'm saying is that the claim that all churches are anti-gay unless they are hippy churches, is plain false. If it seems true where you live, then maybe that says something about the culture where you live. Don't blame that on some general Christianity straw man.
      - Cuuugi 12y ago
        Modern Christianity has splintered due to the billions of different interpretations on the bible. Just because they don't promote their feelings on the subject doesnt mean they're pro-gay. Homophobia it's core was rooted in religous teachings, no matter which one, they all have a history of Homophobia. Your Country's efforts aren't closer to the truth, they are just more palitable for its people. It may be a straw man to blame Christianity, but it certainly isn't to blame religon in general. I dont think I ever said "all" churches are anti-gay, but most when you really put in the reasearch are. You seem to be more anti-American than anything else, maybe you should travel a bit more, or at least avoid the typical eurotrash circlejerks. Bush has been out of office for 6 years now. Get over it.

adventured 12y ago

Nice to meet you. I'm your hard pressed example, there are millions like me in the US.

Tohhou 12y ago
Is your bible the inerrant word of your god? If not then does it have any legitimacy? Is homosexuality a sin? I have yet to find someone like you who who at some point does not admit they are anti-gay. They say they are not, and then you find out they are due to holding two contradictory views at once. Even then you've never given money to any church than ones you know for a fact are 100% not anti-gay, have no one in power who is not anti-gay? That is the parallel.
- adventured 12y ago
  What are you talking about? I'm your hard pressed example that has never given money to a church. I also support true equality: the complete removal of any government involvement in marriage. All consenting adults should be able to get married without any government permission or regulation. No future group of persons should have to ask the government for permission to exercise the rights that do not belong to the government to begin with. If the government believes it gives you such rights, some future politician will find it all too easy to believe they have a right to revoke them.
  - Tohhou 12y ago
    Read my post I gave two examples and you were not specific. > has never given money to a church. I am doubtful, because even if you managed to never go to any church and never give a cent at any age, you can still give money to churches through institutions which seem secular. The Salvation Army is anti-gay and collects money every year from most popular store fronts. Never given them a cent? Never purchased Purina brand dog food? Never paid for anything related to Exxon? You can't know what money you give to someone or pay for something which which ultimately doesn't fuel anti-gay agenda. That's my point.
    - 12y ago

goatforce5 12y ago

May I present the Metropolitan Community Church: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Community_Church http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Community_Church And i've not been keeping a list or anything, but plenty of churches in my part of the world have rainbow flag stickers on their signs/noticeboards. I went to watch the local Pride parade a few years ago and was bored by the number of churches marching in the parade. (It's great that you're actively showing your support, but at least put some effort in to do something fun during the parade. Sheesh!)

Tohhou 12y ago
Leviticus Homosexual acts are an abomination to God. 18:22 If a man has sex with another man, kill them both. 20:13 Something about wanting their cake and eating it too. Beside this, my point is that even if people join this church, they have undoubtedly donated money to an anti-gay church in the past, which makes them forever unworthy apparently.
- i80and 12y ago
  For the record, that's nonsense: the Levitical laws are typically not taken as binding for Christians. The reasons for that are surprisingly straightforward (see: entire NT), but this is a rather silly tangent issue on an already-silly thread and is just not the forum. And no, while I've given money to a church, it is not anti-gay, thankyouverymuch.
  - Tohhou 12y ago
    >the Levitical laws are typically not taken as binding for Christians http://www.evilbible.com/do_not_ignore_ot.htm http://www.evilbible.com/do_not_ignore_ot.htm
    - i80and 12y ago
      The purpose of the Law was to keep his Covenant separate and in line until Christ came to fulfill (you might see that word in your link) the Law's function. Galatians 5:14 (referencing Matthew 22:38 no doubt): "For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'" Additionally, translation difficulties make a lot of sexual concepts tricky to relate to contemporary cultural English (since our modern conceptualization of sex is thankfully quite a bit different from the ancient world). And anyway this is all moot, because unless you subscribe to Replacement theology (which I'm not familiar with, so do not have an opinion on), very few Christians are part of Israel. EDIT: Scratch that last paragraph: now that I think about it, Peter's vision in Acts 10 rendered dietary uncleanness and circumcision---part of the Law---null and void even though he was a Jew and so part of Israel. So maybe even Jewish Christians aren't under the Law? I'm not sure, TBH.