6 ms·

Hypercard reimagined – an iOS app maker and private app store

75 points by metatation 12y ago

hmhrex 12y ago
This looks interesting to me, but doesn't Apple hate apps that are too much like the App Store? The Private App Store description seems like it would make it a target for the ban hammer.
- misuba 12y ago
  Yyyyup. I'd only give these guys money if "AppDrop" isn't part of the value proposition for you. (It isn't for me! An app toolkit that works like HC sounds fantastic - I wish they weren't muddying the waters with this app-store business.)
  - hmhrex 12y ago
    I wouldn't mind being able to send apps to my friends and everything without having to pay another amount to Apple for a developer account. But I don't think it's going to happen.
    - thorinside 12y ago
      It's certainly a bit of a subversive concept. Personally I think it's about time that the app distribution model was updated to allow people to share apps with each other. I think the idea here is to add a separate, small, side-distribution channel that you can use to send apps to friends and testers. Once you're done you can certainly market them in the Apple app store.
      - hmhrex 12y ago
        I think that would be fine with Apple as long as were only able to open apps sent to you, and there's no price attached.
- interstateone 12y ago
  One of the PencilCase devs here, thanks for your question. We've already been using AppDrop with clients and it's been great for them to distribute apps to their own users. All price levels get access to AppDrop Community which lets you easily share your creations with a link. The Corporate and Founding Partner levels will also get their very own, configurable custom-branded PencilCase AppDrop store.
  - hmhrex 12y ago
    That makes a little more sense. I'm very interested in this project. I might actually jump on board after I see it in action for a few months.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
alecsmart1 12y ago
What is appdrop? Sorry but the website is really all over the place.
- basseq 12y ago
  It's a "private app store" (their words)—a catalog of published apps developed in PencilCase. A named feature within the app, insofar as I understand.
- alecsmart1 12y ago
  I got a little annoyed with the excessive use of "TM" everywhere.
sogen 12y ago
Looks great but many items are not described in full, and the comparison table is not clear on the differences/advantages between the two.
ceeK 12y ago
This looks great. I think highlighting a bit more of the actual app side (rather than creating games) would be beneficial. Lots of features in the video for games, but nothing about tableviews etc.
- PhilKomarny 12y ago
  Thanks for the GREAT feedback! Here is what we cooked up this morning in the hotel, table views for demo today. All classic CocoaTouch controls will be in the first release. http://vine.co/v/MOx5Xd7vMIJ http://vine.co/v/MOx5Xd7vMIJ
critium 12y ago
Is there something like this for kids? Been teaching my kids to program and I cant find one easy enough to use (ages 5-9) outside of PPT (yes, I consider slide transitions programming). Scratch is ok but its not fun enough for them or maybe too advanced.
- camus2 12y ago
  What would you expect a 9 yo to accomplish regarding programming? What do you teach them? (it's just a question,not a criticism,before you downvote in mass)
  - codezy 12y ago
    Having used scratch (very cool) I have been using the beta to teach them things like - this image is an ~object~ and it has properties. Look how we can tell it to change these properties over time etc. Its more conceptual than "this is the syntax of an if statement in objective-c". Pretty cool so far (as cool as scratch, just different)
  - alecdbrooks 12y ago
    From what I've heard of HyperCard and learning programming languages, children definitely could create a small game, short animation or interactive story. At nine years old, it would probably be rudimentary, but they could learn the basics. Without meaning to be rude, this question's like asking "What would you expect a nine year old to accomplish regarding writing and drawing?" If you don't like that analogy, consider how children often learn the basics of woodworking or sewing through small projects that might not be useful or even be completed. Programming could work the same way.
    - camus2 12y ago
      >"What would you expect a >nine year old to accomplish >regarding writing and drawing? I'm no teacher, i dont have kids and dont remember myself being one. My question is about the content of the teaching.What does the the parent teach them, and how he does it,nothing more . I'm not sure what your point is.
runnr_az 12y ago
Cool! Will look forward to seeing it when it comes out...
WoodenChair 12y ago
This is a great evolution of the open source SpriteBuilder. Kudos to the developers for putting something together that really looks usable by the average Joe - like Hypercard. On the other hand, I doubt many average Joes still know the reference to Hypercard.
- vnchr 12y ago
  Don't disagree re the average Joe, but as a semi-technical Joe without the chops to really code this is exciting. I'd like to see more non-game demos to better appreciate the scope, but SalesForce integration screams small and medium business use-cases.
  - fuzzywalrus 12y ago
    The allegory to HyperCard is interesting as HyperCard had its own programming language, HyperTalk. Same with Macromedia Director, which also had Lingo (which was similar to HyperTalk). I never considered those apps as "no programming required" but more like "less programming required"
    - inovica 12y ago
      I agree with you. As someone who started 'programming' with Lingo it was easy to build some great products with minimal knowledge. That I then taught myself to program, using Perl initially, is an aside but I would not have done it without using Lingo first
dahjelle 12y ago
There's clearly a lot of power to do a lot of neat stuff, plus some really brilliant features for businesses trying to create their own apps (like importing graphics from PowerPoint). But I'm most curious to see how it will support building little CRUD apps that so many businesses could use to smooth their workflows. How will the data validation and forms stuff work? I see they mention key-value sync—can you get the data out for analysis in other products? Regardless, I'm thrilled. I wish more software was available to let people solve their own problems with computers, rather than looking for an app-for-that.
mattgreenrocks 12y ago
Wow, this looks like the beginning of something big! If half of these features are solid, you guys will do really well.
spot 12y ago
unless this is programmable in javascript, how is it allowed by apple? and if it is javascript, then it's missing a key feature of hypercard that made it accessible, hypertalk. here's another hypercard inspired app: http://infinitecanvassuite.com/ http://infinitecanvassuite.com/
- basseq 12y ago
  It's a little confusing what functionality is where. I get the sense it's a OS X development suite (à la Adobe's ability to publish native iOS apps) with some kind of app companion (to include AppDrop?). I think it remains to be seen exactly how much "programming" you can do natively on iOS
- misuba 12y ago
  HyperTalk could be done in JS as an intermediate compilation step. (Which we know because that's exactly what TileStack did before it died: http://www.cnet.com/news/tilestack-hypercard-comes-back-from-the-dead-and-onto-the-web http://www.cnet.com/news/tilestack-hypercard-comes-back-from... )
- interstateone 12y ago
  Hi there, I'm one of the PencilCase devs that worked on the JS engine. The easiest way to get started with PencilCase is using events and actions in the GUI, no programming required. If you want more control you can program in JavaScript as well with access to all of the objects on your cards, web requests, etc. You get the best of both worlds.
  - vtools 12y ago
    That helps. Thanks
djdrzzy 12y ago
Hypercard was what I first started developing on back when I was young. Great to see it come to life again. Javascript instead of Hypertalk though... ;)
- cortesoft 12y ago
  Me too! (Well I started first in basic, but HyperCard was where I did my real first programming) I made so many crazy games in HyperCard. I had no idea what I was doing either; I had countless hidden fields that I used to store data, serialized with my own custom format. I loved it though. So much fun!
  - djdrzzy 12y ago
    My biggest 'magic' moment in hypercard was this technique called one-card animation that I copied out of some book. It was basically a script to direct the lasso tool to select an area on the screen, then slowly drag it across the screen. Having it work seemed magical in that I had told the computer what to do and it listened. Been hooked on making software ever since!
    - cortesoft 12y ago
      Your magic moment reminded me of my first one (although a much less exciting one than yours!) I was 7 years old and reading my first BASIC programming book... I read how to use a PRINT statement, and ran into my parents room exclaiming how I could print something to the screen! I have been hooked ever since.
soapdog 12y ago
There is an HyperCard inspired tool that is very similar and works on Mac OS X, Windows, Linux and is able to deploy to all those platforms plus Android and iOS. Its a wonderful tool and very easy to learn. It is also GPL. http://livecode.com http://livecode.com
- delinka 12y ago
  The only license I see on the LiveCode site is at http://livecode.com/LiveCode-EULA/ http://livecode.com/LiveCode-EULA/ and that specifically mentions that it's not GPL-compatible.
  - lstamour 12y ago
    > h) For the avoidance of doubt, this [Commercial] Licensed Edition does not include access to the LiveCode engine source code found in the Community Edition. This Licensed Edition is not compatible with the terms of the GPL and such software may not be incorporated or utilized with this Licensed Edition. So they've dual-licensed it. The Community Edition source on Github is all GPL with this exception: https://github.com/runrev/livecode/commit/51e3958082d9edd6454c31fdb08c20bed6f65e80#diff-9879d6db96fd29134fc802214163b95a https://github.com/runrev/livecode/commit/51e3958082d9edd645...
bajsejohannes 12y ago
As someone how doesn't know what hypercard is, I have a hard time understanding what this is. Maybe a couple of concrete use case at the top of the webpage would be helpful?
- analog31 12y ago
  As someone who does know what Hypercard is, I'd like to see the same thing, and also, a glimpse at what the code looks like.
fudged71 12y ago
Looks awesome, can't wait to try it out
tbeutel 12y ago
So can PencilCase apps be deployed as standalone iOS apps? Or only in AppDrop?

75 points by metatation 12y ago

This looks interesting to me, but doesn't Apple hate apps that are too much like the App Store? The Private App Store description seems like it would make it a target for the ban hammer.

misuba 12y ago
Yyyyup. I'd only give these guys money if "AppDrop" isn't part of the value proposition for you. (It isn't for me! An app toolkit that works like HC sounds fantastic - I wish they weren't muddying the waters with this app-store business.)
- hmhrex 12y ago
  I wouldn't mind being able to send apps to my friends and everything without having to pay another amount to Apple for a developer account. But I don't think it's going to happen.
  - thorinside 12y ago
    It's certainly a bit of a subversive concept. Personally I think it's about time that the app distribution model was updated to allow people to share apps with each other. I think the idea here is to add a separate, small, side-distribution channel that you can use to send apps to friends and testers. Once you're done you can certainly market them in the Apple app store.
    - hmhrex 12y ago
      I think that would be fine with Apple as long as were only able to open apps sent to you, and there's no price attached.
interstateone 12y ago
One of the PencilCase devs here, thanks for your question. We've already been using AppDrop with clients and it's been great for them to distribute apps to their own users. All price levels get access to AppDrop Community which lets you easily share your creations with a link. The Corporate and Founding Partner levels will also get their very own, configurable custom-branded PencilCase AppDrop store.
- hmhrex 12y ago
  That makes a little more sense. I'm very interested in this project. I might actually jump on board after I see it in action for a few months.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

alecsmart1 12y ago

What is appdrop? Sorry but the website is really all over the place.

basseq 12y ago
It's a "private app store" (their words)—a catalog of published apps developed in PencilCase. A named feature within the app, insofar as I understand.
alecsmart1 12y ago
I got a little annoyed with the excessive use of "TM" everywhere.

sogen 12y ago

Looks great but many items are not described in full, and the comparison table is not clear on the differences/advantages between the two.

ceeK 12y ago

This looks great. I think highlighting a bit more of the actual app side (rather than creating games) would be beneficial. Lots of features in the video for games, but nothing about tableviews etc.

PhilKomarny 12y ago
Thanks for the GREAT feedback! Here is what we cooked up this morning in the hotel, table views for demo today. All classic CocoaTouch controls will be in the first release. http://vine.co/v/MOx5Xd7vMIJ http://vine.co/v/MOx5Xd7vMIJ

critium 12y ago

Is there something like this for kids? Been teaching my kids to program and I cant find one easy enough to use (ages 5-9) outside of PPT (yes, I consider slide transitions programming). Scratch is ok but its not fun enough for them or maybe too advanced.

camus2 12y ago
What would you expect a 9 yo to accomplish regarding programming? What do you teach them? (it's just a question,not a criticism,before you downvote in mass)
- codezy 12y ago
  Having used scratch (very cool) I have been using the beta to teach them things like - this image is an ~object~ and it has properties. Look how we can tell it to change these properties over time etc. Its more conceptual than "this is the syntax of an if statement in objective-c". Pretty cool so far (as cool as scratch, just different)
- alecdbrooks 12y ago
  From what I've heard of HyperCard and learning programming languages, children definitely could create a small game, short animation or interactive story. At nine years old, it would probably be rudimentary, but they could learn the basics. Without meaning to be rude, this question's like asking "What would you expect a nine year old to accomplish regarding writing and drawing?" If you don't like that analogy, consider how children often learn the basics of woodworking or sewing through small projects that might not be useful or even be completed. Programming could work the same way.
  - camus2 12y ago
    >"What would you expect a >nine year old to accomplish >regarding writing and drawing? I'm no teacher, i dont have kids and dont remember myself being one. My question is about the content of the teaching.What does the the parent teach them, and how he does it,nothing more . I'm not sure what your point is.

runnr_az 12y ago

Cool! Will look forward to seeing it when it comes out...

WoodenChair 12y ago

This is a great evolution of the open source SpriteBuilder. Kudos to the developers for putting something together that really looks usable by the average Joe - like Hypercard. On the other hand, I doubt many average Joes still know the reference to Hypercard.

vnchr 12y ago
Don't disagree re the average Joe, but as a semi-technical Joe without the chops to really code this is exciting. I'd like to see more non-game demos to better appreciate the scope, but SalesForce integration screams small and medium business use-cases.
- fuzzywalrus 12y ago
  The allegory to HyperCard is interesting as HyperCard had its own programming language, HyperTalk. Same with Macromedia Director, which also had Lingo (which was similar to HyperTalk). I never considered those apps as "no programming required" but more like "less programming required"
  - inovica 12y ago
    I agree with you. As someone who started 'programming' with Lingo it was easy to build some great products with minimal knowledge. That I then taught myself to program, using Perl initially, is an aside but I would not have done it without using Lingo first

dahjelle 12y ago

There's clearly a lot of power to do a lot of neat stuff, plus some really brilliant features for businesses trying to create their own apps (like importing graphics from PowerPoint). But I'm most curious to see how it will support building little CRUD apps that so many businesses could use to smooth their workflows. How will the data validation and forms stuff work? I see they mention key-value sync—can you get the data out for analysis in other products? Regardless, I'm thrilled. I wish more software was available to let people solve their own problems with computers, rather than looking for an app-for-that.

mattgreenrocks 12y ago

Wow, this looks like the beginning of something big! If half of these features are solid, you guys will do really well.

spot 12y ago

unless this is programmable in javascript, how is it allowed by apple? and if it is javascript, then it's missing a key feature of hypercard that made it accessible, hypertalk. here's another hypercard inspired app: http://infinitecanvassuite.com/ http://infinitecanvassuite.com/

basseq 12y ago
It's a little confusing what functionality is where. I get the sense it's a OS X development suite (à la Adobe's ability to publish native iOS apps) with some kind of app companion (to include AppDrop?). I think it remains to be seen exactly how much "programming" you can do natively on iOS
misuba 12y ago
HyperTalk could be done in JS as an intermediate compilation step. (Which we know because that's exactly what TileStack did before it died: http://www.cnet.com/news/tilestack-hypercard-comes-back-from-the-dead-and-onto-the-web http://www.cnet.com/news/tilestack-hypercard-comes-back-from... )
interstateone 12y ago
Hi there, I'm one of the PencilCase devs that worked on the JS engine. The easiest way to get started with PencilCase is using events and actions in the GUI, no programming required. If you want more control you can program in JavaScript as well with access to all of the objects on your cards, web requests, etc. You get the best of both worlds.
- vtools 12y ago
  That helps. Thanks

djdrzzy 12y ago

Hypercard was what I first started developing on back when I was young. Great to see it come to life again. Javascript instead of Hypertalk though... ;)

cortesoft 12y ago
Me too! (Well I started first in basic, but HyperCard was where I did my real first programming) I made so many crazy games in HyperCard. I had no idea what I was doing either; I had countless hidden fields that I used to store data, serialized with my own custom format. I loved it though. So much fun!
- djdrzzy 12y ago
  My biggest 'magic' moment in hypercard was this technique called one-card animation that I copied out of some book. It was basically a script to direct the lasso tool to select an area on the screen, then slowly drag it across the screen. Having it work seemed magical in that I had told the computer what to do and it listened. Been hooked on making software ever since!
  - cortesoft 12y ago
    Your magic moment reminded me of my first one (although a much less exciting one than yours!) I was 7 years old and reading my first BASIC programming book... I read how to use a PRINT statement, and ran into my parents room exclaiming how I could print something to the screen! I have been hooked ever since.

soapdog 12y ago

There is an HyperCard inspired tool that is very similar and works on Mac OS X, Windows, Linux and is able to deploy to all those platforms plus Android and iOS. Its a wonderful tool and very easy to learn. It is also GPL. http://livecode.com http://livecode.com

delinka 12y ago
The only license I see on the LiveCode site is at http://livecode.com/LiveCode-EULA/ http://livecode.com/LiveCode-EULA/ and that specifically mentions that it's not GPL-compatible.
- lstamour 12y ago
  > h) For the avoidance of doubt, this [Commercial] Licensed Edition does not include access to the LiveCode engine source code found in the Community Edition. This Licensed Edition is not compatible with the terms of the GPL and such software may not be incorporated or utilized with this Licensed Edition. So they've dual-licensed it. The Community Edition source on Github is all GPL with this exception: https://github.com/runrev/livecode/commit/51e3958082d9edd6454c31fdb08c20bed6f65e80#diff-9879d6db96fd29134fc802214163b95a https://github.com/runrev/livecode/commit/51e3958082d9edd645...

bajsejohannes 12y ago

As someone how doesn't know what hypercard is, I have a hard time understanding what this is. Maybe a couple of concrete use case at the top of the webpage would be helpful?

analog31 12y ago
As someone who does know what Hypercard is, I'd like to see the same thing, and also, a glimpse at what the code looks like.

fudged71 12y ago

Looks awesome, can't wait to try it out

tbeutel 12y ago

So can PencilCase apps be deployed as standalone iOS apps? Or only in AppDrop?