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I still find the pressure to work on side projects in your free time difficult to come to terms with. There's often discussion about how if you don't like what

I still find the pressure to work on side projects in your free time difficult to come to terms with. There's often discussion about how if you don't like what you're doing, then you should find a new job - and easily, if you're in the bay area. I know a lot of really talented devs that don't work on side projects because they are completely consumed by, and love, their work and can't imagine doing anything else. What if your passion is your day job? Having a github full of side projects is helpful when pursuing a job, but I find it difficult to go hard at work and put 100% in and then come home and work on side projects. Usually, I'd rather spend time with friends and family. This seems to disqualify me from a lot of job postings.

midas007 13y ago
Yeah, if it's not a voluntary act, then demanding volunteer work would be a "voluntold" situation. That's not cool.
danso 13y ago
I justify work on side-projects when they can both serve my personal goals and the lessons (not necessarily the actual code) can be used to make work easier. So I guess in some ways it feels like doing work at home, but I guess I count it as offsetting stress/tedium at work.
Volundr 13y ago
Yeah this is something that's bothered me for a long time. For awhile I felt bad and tried to focus on doing the whole "side projects" thing, but now I've just come to accept that some people will never hire me, and that's OK. The fact of the matter is that I have a job where I work on different things and am encouraged to learn. It's not a dream job, I don't "love" what I do, but I like it. The fact of the matter when I get home from my 8 (ok, often 7) hour day, I really don't feel like programming anymore. I feel like curling up on the couch with my girlfriend and watching a movie. Or hanging out with friends, or going for a motorcycle ride. You know, those things that keep you from burning out? So, at this point I've decided that if someone doesn't want to hire me because my Github profile isn't cool enough, well OK. That tells me that the culture there values work over work/life balance, and I don't want to work there anyway. I work on side projects when I have to urge to, and rarely does anything worthwhile to anyone but me come out of it. But I'm done feeling guilty about it.
- LordHumungous 13y ago
  I feel like you are setting up a false choice between spending all your free time programming and spending none of it. Taking a few hours here and there to expand your horizons isn't that much to ask.
AznHisoka 13y ago
Personally I find it insane to go home and work on a side project after work, if it's not something you hope to make money from.
- chriswarbo 13y ago
  If a side-project did make any money, what would you spend it on? Perhaps you'd spend some on entertainment, or to further your education, or to finally fix those minor annoyances that you come across day to day. Maybe you'd invest some in a project that you think has great potential to change the world? Pro tip: many people work on side-projects for exactly those reasons. They just cut out the middle man (money).
  - AznHisoka 13y ago
    Valid point. I guess I'm greedy and could never derive enough enjoyment from a side project, given the energy involved to justify the time investment. I need the million dollar payoff so I can enjoy hacking on whatever I want 40 hours a week.
  - ptr 13y ago
    Not to forget those that are hoping to create some extra money (and/or passive income) to put off the next consulting gig for a while.
- greggman 13y ago
  What? Did I miss some context here? Was this meant as sarcasm or were you serious? If you don't want to do it fine but calling it insane seems a little overboard. People have hobbies. They do them outside of work. Some one might work on websites at work but have a hobby of making 3d graphics programs at home, or arduino projects, or games, or whatever. Sure if you don't personally find it fun then don't do it but I guess I read into your message you couldn't see how people could do side projects at home. How are those any different than any other hobbies? My grandfather was chief of maintenance at some factory meaning he worked with tools all day long fixing machines. He'd then come home and use more tools to make things. It doesn't seem that out of the ordinary.
- 13y ago
chriswarbo 13y ago
"What if your passion is your day job?" Then pursue it with a passion. "I find it difficult to go hard at work and put 100% in and then come home and work on side projects." Then don't. "Usually, I'd rather spend time with friends and family." Then do. "This seems to disqualify me from a lot of job postings." If getting the job requires a large time commitment to side-projects, then they're not side-projects. If you're only doing something to count towards some job or other, then that is a cost of that job. If you work X hours per week in an office and Y hours a week at home on side-projects you don't want to do, then you're working an (X+Y) hour week. If that's too much, then screw the job because it's clearly not worth it. With that said, my hobby is programming. I have a few programming side-projects, but they exist for me because I really enjoy them. When I'm not programming I'm usually reading CompSci papers. That's what I get off on. The moment any of this becomes a chore, I leave it to rot. There are a number of dead projects in my wake, but they fulfilled their purpose; I enjoyed creating them and learned from the experience.
- beebs93 13y ago
  Geezuz Murphy I was almost yelling this at the screen as I read the OP's comments. There is no single template to improving as a programmer while staying both mentally and physically healthy. Define your goals and align your life to meet them; do NOT align your life to meet goals defined by others.
  - existencebox 13y ago
    Thank you to both the above and above-above for bringing this up. Too often do I see these "you need to do x to be y" or "If you don't do z you're not really passionate", as you said far better than I could have, live the life you want to live. Do what you want to, don't do what you don't; but whichever choice you make, put your all into it, passions and talents will float to the top. While there is something to doing lots of something being how you get good at it, there needs to be more focus on the doing, and less on the getting good at it. This has the side effect of creating what I see as more positive motivations and interactions between fellow do-ers. (citing weak anecdotes from my days as a TA)
southphillyman 13y ago
How do you guys continue learning if not through side projects? Do you only care about the stack you use at work? The point of doing side projects isn't coding for the sake of coding. It's either to solve a real problem or a means to highlight current technical interests.
- derefr 13y ago
  Presumably, by figuring out a way to get paid to do whatever you would do in your side projects. For example, build a component of the company's online service in X, to learn X.
Lambdanaut 13y ago
Here's an idea that might pan out for you! Try to find ways to get your friends and family involved in your projects with you. For example, my fiance is an artist. She doesn't know anything about coding, but we built a social art website working together. She did the designing and visuals, I did the code. It was awesome. I was able to spend time with her, while also building something that lead to my first real gig as a developer. One of the best ways to get to know your friends and family at a really close level is by working with them on a project that you both care about.

midas007 13y ago

Yeah, if it's not a voluntary act, then demanding volunteer work would be a "voluntold" situation. That's not cool.

danso 13y ago

I justify work on side-projects when they can both serve my personal goals and the lessons (not necessarily the actual code) can be used to make work easier. So I guess in some ways it feels like doing work at home, but I guess I count it as offsetting stress/tedium at work.

Volundr 13y ago

Yeah this is something that's bothered me for a long time. For awhile I felt bad and tried to focus on doing the whole "side projects" thing, but now I've just come to accept that some people will never hire me, and that's OK. The fact of the matter is that I have a job where I work on different things and am encouraged to learn. It's not a dream job, I don't "love" what I do, but I like it. The fact of the matter when I get home from my 8 (ok, often 7) hour day, I really don't feel like programming anymore. I feel like curling up on the couch with my girlfriend and watching a movie. Or hanging out with friends, or going for a motorcycle ride. You know, those things that keep you from burning out? So, at this point I've decided that if someone doesn't want to hire me because my Github profile isn't cool enough, well OK. That tells me that the culture there values work over work/life balance, and I don't want to work there anyway. I work on side projects when I have to urge to, and rarely does anything worthwhile to anyone but me come out of it. But I'm done feeling guilty about it.

LordHumungous 13y ago
I feel like you are setting up a false choice between spending all your free time programming and spending none of it. Taking a few hours here and there to expand your horizons isn't that much to ask.

AznHisoka 13y ago

Personally I find it insane to go home and work on a side project after work, if it's not something you hope to make money from.

chriswarbo 13y ago
If a side-project did make any money, what would you spend it on? Perhaps you'd spend some on entertainment, or to further your education, or to finally fix those minor annoyances that you come across day to day. Maybe you'd invest some in a project that you think has great potential to change the world? Pro tip: many people work on side-projects for exactly those reasons. They just cut out the middle man (money).
- AznHisoka 13y ago
  Valid point. I guess I'm greedy and could never derive enough enjoyment from a side project, given the energy involved to justify the time investment. I need the million dollar payoff so I can enjoy hacking on whatever I want 40 hours a week.
- ptr 13y ago
  Not to forget those that are hoping to create some extra money (and/or passive income) to put off the next consulting gig for a while.
greggman 13y ago
What? Did I miss some context here? Was this meant as sarcasm or were you serious? If you don't want to do it fine but calling it insane seems a little overboard. People have hobbies. They do them outside of work. Some one might work on websites at work but have a hobby of making 3d graphics programs at home, or arduino projects, or games, or whatever. Sure if you don't personally find it fun then don't do it but I guess I read into your message you couldn't see how people could do side projects at home. How are those any different than any other hobbies? My grandfather was chief of maintenance at some factory meaning he worked with tools all day long fixing machines. He'd then come home and use more tools to make things. It doesn't seem that out of the ordinary.
13y ago

chriswarbo 13y ago

"What if your passion is your day job?" Then pursue it with a passion. "I find it difficult to go hard at work and put 100% in and then come home and work on side projects." Then don't. "Usually, I'd rather spend time with friends and family." Then do. "This seems to disqualify me from a lot of job postings." If getting the job requires a large time commitment to side-projects, then they're not side-projects. If you're only doing something to count towards some job or other, then that is a cost of that job. If you work X hours per week in an office and Y hours a week at home on side-projects you don't want to do, then you're working an (X+Y) hour week. If that's too much, then screw the job because it's clearly not worth it. With that said, my hobby is programming. I have a few programming side-projects, but they exist for me because I really enjoy them. When I'm not programming I'm usually reading CompSci papers. That's what I get off on. The moment any of this becomes a chore, I leave it to rot. There are a number of dead projects in my wake, but they fulfilled their purpose; I enjoyed creating them and learned from the experience.

beebs93 13y ago
Geezuz Murphy I was almost yelling this at the screen as I read the OP's comments. There is no single template to improving as a programmer while staying both mentally and physically healthy. Define your goals and align your life to meet them; do NOT align your life to meet goals defined by others.
- existencebox 13y ago
  Thank you to both the above and above-above for bringing this up. Too often do I see these "you need to do x to be y" or "If you don't do z you're not really passionate", as you said far better than I could have, live the life you want to live. Do what you want to, don't do what you don't; but whichever choice you make, put your all into it, passions and talents will float to the top. While there is something to doing lots of something being how you get good at it, there needs to be more focus on the doing, and less on the getting good at it. This has the side effect of creating what I see as more positive motivations and interactions between fellow do-ers. (citing weak anecdotes from my days as a TA)

southphillyman 13y ago

How do you guys continue learning if not through side projects? Do you only care about the stack you use at work? The point of doing side projects isn't coding for the sake of coding. It's either to solve a real problem or a means to highlight current technical interests.

derefr 13y ago
Presumably, by figuring out a way to get paid to do whatever you would do in your side projects. For example, build a component of the company's online service in X, to learn X.

Lambdanaut 13y ago

Here's an idea that might pan out for you! Try to find ways to get your friends and family involved in your projects with you. For example, my fiance is an artist. She doesn't know anything about coding, but we built a social art website working together. She did the designing and visuals, I did the code. It was awesome. I was able to spend time with her, while also building something that lead to my first real gig as a developer. One of the best ways to get to know your friends and family at a really close level is by working with them on a project that you both care about.