4 ms·

The fact that I'm a 21 year old drop out making nearly 100k because I sat in my mom's basement for a few years and studied software that interested me is pretty

by rfnslyr 13y ago

The fact that I'm a 21 year old drop out making nearly 100k because I sat in my mom's basement for a few years and studied software that interested me is pretty crazy.

MarkPNeyer 13y ago
why? what makes you think you aren't worth 10 times that?
- rfnslyr 13y ago
  How do I properly quantify exactly how much value I'm adding to the company I work for and the world to possibly determine how much I'm precisely worth?
  - jimbokun 13y ago
    You're almost there... Now apply this to the implication that these sv companies did not depress engineer wages.
    - rfnslyr 13y ago
      You're absolutely right. I'm demanding a 500k bonus from my boss tomorrow or I'm GONE!
      - MarkPNeyer 13y ago
        why does that make sense? you aren't paid in proportion to your worth; you are only paid in proportion to your negotiating power. if 50 other people can produce the same worth for your employer, you're going to be paid a lot less than if you are the only one who can produce the same amount of worth. don't take this as an argument that you are being paid "unfairly" - you're not. just see it this way - you are worth much more than that. set your career sights a lot higher because you deserve it.
      - consz 13y ago
        You should. I write code in another industry (HFT) and most people coming out of college are getting 400-500k bonuses or more after a year. We joke about how raw of a deal the average developer in SV is getting -- Google has roughly the same net profit/employee that we do (maybe even more), and all they're getting is chump change.
        hahainternet 13y ago
        I both hate and admire you for that. One bonus like that is all I need to finish plans for good. I know talented programmers getting the equiv of $50k and I wish I could do something for them.
        billmalarky 13y ago
        Interesting. How does one get into that industry? Can you shoot me an email? I thought HFT was going into rough times?
  - clavalle 13y ago
    You need to ask yourself what your replacement cost is, not how much value you are adding. Sure, you're a drop out, but if you have an in-demand skill set replacing you is not going to be cheap.
wpietri 13y ago
This is true, but irrelevant. Market price is market price. These companies are generating massive income. They are paying high wages (and colluding to avoid paying higher ones) because engineers are necessary to that. The question you should ask during salary negotiations isn't, "Do I, based on my own value judgments and moral code, deserve this much money?" It's: "Are they paying me market price for my skills?" If market price for your work is more money than you need or you believe you deserve, then take it and give it to somebody you think does deserve it. I promise you that if you let your employer keep the extra, they will not do anything better than you will with it. Take the money.
- nerfhammer 13y ago
  > These companies are generating massive income. Illustration: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=profit+per+employee+apple+google+microsoft+facebook http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=profit+per+employee+app... Remember this is net rev, what they take in after paying everyone. Assuming the average employee makes $120K, and given that they can't exist long enough to make $1 without the engineers showing up, these companies should be willing to pay everyone up to 2-3x that
  - judk 13y ago
    Wtf, wolfram alpha doesn't know how to display units properly? Anyway, considering that employees also have equity, those numbers aren't obviously damning. Nor are they particularly relevant, as "willing to pay" isn't the same as "market price"
    - nerfhammer 13y ago
      > "willing[ness] to pay" isn't the same as "market price" It should be the same if aggregate engineer negotiation for compensation was efficient either that or there's a glut of engineers on the market, which would seem to be the opposite of what we're always hearing
scarmig 13y ago
What's even crazier: owners of firms get paid millions or billions of dollars for doing much less than you do--literally nothing besides initially deciding to purchase shares, in large companies--merely because they acquired, one way or another, a big bundle of cash earlier in their history.
crdoconnor 13y ago
Part of the reason it's crazy is because the collusion in other industries is even worse.

by rfnslyr 13y ago

The fact that I'm a 21 year old drop out making nearly 100k because I sat in my mom's basement for a few years and studied software that interested me is pretty crazy.

MarkPNeyer 13y ago

why? what makes you think you aren't worth 10 times that?

rfnslyr 13y ago
How do I properly quantify exactly how much value I'm adding to the company I work for and the world to possibly determine how much I'm precisely worth?
- jimbokun 13y ago
  You're almost there... Now apply this to the implication that these sv companies did not depress engineer wages.
  - rfnslyr 13y ago
    You're absolutely right. I'm demanding a 500k bonus from my boss tomorrow or I'm GONE!
    - MarkPNeyer 13y ago
      why does that make sense? you aren't paid in proportion to your worth; you are only paid in proportion to your negotiating power. if 50 other people can produce the same worth for your employer, you're going to be paid a lot less than if you are the only one who can produce the same amount of worth. don't take this as an argument that you are being paid "unfairly" - you're not. just see it this way - you are worth much more than that. set your career sights a lot higher because you deserve it.
    - consz 13y ago
      You should. I write code in another industry (HFT) and most people coming out of college are getting 400-500k bonuses or more after a year. We joke about how raw of a deal the average developer in SV is getting -- Google has roughly the same net profit/employee that we do (maybe even more), and all they're getting is chump change.
      - hahainternet 13y ago
        I both hate and admire you for that. One bonus like that is all I need to finish plans for good. I know talented programmers getting the equiv of $50k and I wish I could do something for them.
      - billmalarky 13y ago
        Interesting. How does one get into that industry? Can you shoot me an email? I thought HFT was going into rough times?
- clavalle 13y ago
  You need to ask yourself what your replacement cost is, not how much value you are adding. Sure, you're a drop out, but if you have an in-demand skill set replacing you is not going to be cheap.

wpietri 13y ago

This is true, but irrelevant. Market price is market price. These companies are generating massive income. They are paying high wages (and colluding to avoid paying higher ones) because engineers are necessary to that. The question you should ask during salary negotiations isn't, "Do I, based on my own value judgments and moral code, deserve this much money?" It's: "Are they paying me market price for my skills?" If market price for your work is more money than you need or you believe you deserve, then take it and give it to somebody you think does deserve it. I promise you that if you let your employer keep the extra, they will not do anything better than you will with it. Take the money.

nerfhammer 13y ago
> These companies are generating massive income. Illustration: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=profit+per+employee+apple+google+microsoft+facebook http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=profit+per+employee+app... Remember this is net rev, what they take in after paying everyone. Assuming the average employee makes $120K, and given that they can't exist long enough to make $1 without the engineers showing up, these companies should be willing to pay everyone up to 2-3x that
- judk 13y ago
  Wtf, wolfram alpha doesn't know how to display units properly? Anyway, considering that employees also have equity, those numbers aren't obviously damning. Nor are they particularly relevant, as "willing to pay" isn't the same as "market price"
  - nerfhammer 13y ago
    > "willing[ness] to pay" isn't the same as "market price" It should be the same if aggregate engineer negotiation for compensation was efficient either that or there's a glut of engineers on the market, which would seem to be the opposite of what we're always hearing

scarmig 13y ago

What's even crazier: owners of firms get paid millions or billions of dollars for doing much less than you do--literally nothing besides initially deciding to purchase shares, in large companies--merely because they acquired, one way or another, a big bundle of cash earlier in their history.

crdoconnor 13y ago

Part of the reason it's crazy is because the collusion in other industries is even worse.