5 ms·

This is another example of how Snowden has compromised national security by leaking secret information that has nothing to do with American metadata and everyth

by codex 13y ago

This is another example of how Snowden has compromised national security by leaking secret information that has nothing to do with American metadata and everything to do with the NSA's charter and legal mission.

daenz 13y ago
Maybe it's Snowden, maybe it isn't. It has been suggested by the reporters of this information that the Snowden name may be used as a cover for other NSA leakers.
detcader 13y ago
Except if we actually put this story into context of how the US government does things, we realize that if this technique of spying isn't already being used on US citizens, it soon will be. Drones, wire-tapping, and infectious state-created spyware came home from the War on Terror, what makes you think this practice won't? Of course, neither of us can prove anything either way, but context is necessary before making analyses like yours
samstave 13y ago
Any thought that the NSA is adding to our national security is a delusion. How about a shift in your thinking: Instead f "securing" ourselves through trillions in weapons and intel BS - why not work toward creating a better world through better systems and people? How many Norwegian terrorists have there been? Fuck the NSA.
- PythonicAlpha 13y ago
  >Any thought that the NSA is adding to our national security is a delusion. Adding more security will make our life less and less secure. Anybody who believes, such things will stop terrorism, is just dreaming.
- vanattab 13y ago
  >How many Norwegian terrorists have there been? At least two since 2011. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2467047/Terror-suspect-Kenyan-mall-shooting-revealed-Chelsea-fan-Norway.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2467047/Terror-suspe... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik
jonknee 13y ago
It wasn't a secret to anyone who would have really wanted to know. The NYT knew for years and stayed hush to keep their access to the political establishment. I seriously doubt this is news to China, Russia, Iran, etc.
nitrogen 13y ago
Or, perhaps, an example of what all intelligence agencies are using, not just the NSA. With knowledge of these techniques, multinational corporations can try to protect themselves against industrial espionage by foreign governments.
sroerick 13y ago
What do you think about Greenwald's opinion that it's the goal of the NSA to intercept and record all information or communications? If this is true, than releasing this information may be seen in a different context.
malandrew 13y ago
Until we have true US citizen oversight over the NSA activities to make sure that they are acting purely in a way that is aligned with its charter and legal mission, all this information about its capability also compromises its ability to carry out a perfect tyranny. I think most US citizens would be okay with affording the NSA rights to secrecy if those in the NSA had shown themselves to be exemplary defenders of the US Constitution. Instead, they have demonstrated themselves as the most formidable opponents to the US Constitution, and more specifically the Bill of Rights. Our national security means nothing if the principles upon which the nation is founded are being debased wholesale. The US without the Constitution is not a nation, since the Constitution is the foundation of the shared history and government of the 330 million people that call themselves Americans. An NSA that does not respect the Constitution is the greatest existential threat to national security this country has faced. An organization with the capabilities of the NSA with no real oversight can unilaterally subvert even the healthiest democracy.
notdrunkatall 13y ago
I'm a fan of Snowden, but I agree. He needs to be more selective in what he releases.
eru 13y ago
Who cares about US national security?
- vanattab 13y ago
  umm...me.
  - eru 13y ago
    Yes, but there are more people around.
ZoFreX 13y ago
Snowden leaked a huge amount of data to journalists that he trusted to decide what was in the public interest and what would harm national security. I actually think they have mostly done a good job. I think this story, and the previous one on TAO from Der Spiegel, are substantially different to the other stories that have been run from the leaks. I do think there is an argument that these kind of details weaken security, and it's far, far less clear cut in my mind that the public interest argument outweighs the security argument in this case. If you believe it does not that isn't a belief I would challenge - but blame the journalists who have made the wrong call, not Snowden. Deciding which 0.1% of the 100,000 documents to leak is their job.
ds9 13y ago
So according to you, the USG not being able to spy on everyone, everywhere, all the time compromises "national security"? By that logic, you're threatening your neighbors by not having surveillance cams in your bedroom and bathroom, because you might be doing something nefarious there. I have a better idea: the US should stop interfering in other countries and violating people's rights - then it wouldn't have enemies.

by codex 13y ago

daenz 13y ago

Maybe it's Snowden, maybe it isn't. It has been suggested by the reporters of this information that the Snowden name may be used as a cover for other NSA leakers.

detcader 13y ago

Except if we actually put this story into context of how the US government does things, we realize that if this technique of spying isn't already being used on US citizens, it soon will be. Drones, wire-tapping, and infectious state-created spyware came home from the War on Terror, what makes you think this practice won't? Of course, neither of us can prove anything either way, but context is necessary before making analyses like yours

samstave 13y ago

Any thought that the NSA is adding to our national security is a delusion. How about a shift in your thinking: Instead f "securing" ourselves through trillions in weapons and intel BS - why not work toward creating a better world through better systems and people? How many Norwegian terrorists have there been? Fuck the NSA.

PythonicAlpha 13y ago
>Any thought that the NSA is adding to our national security is a delusion. Adding more security will make our life less and less secure. Anybody who believes, such things will stop terrorism, is just dreaming.
vanattab 13y ago
>How many Norwegian terrorists have there been? At least two since 2011. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2467047/Terror-suspect-Kenyan-mall-shooting-revealed-Chelsea-fan-Norway.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2467047/Terror-suspe... http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Behring_Breivik

jonknee 13y ago

It wasn't a secret to anyone who would have really wanted to know. The NYT knew for years and stayed hush to keep their access to the political establishment. I seriously doubt this is news to China, Russia, Iran, etc.

nitrogen 13y ago

Or, perhaps, an example of what all intelligence agencies are using, not just the NSA. With knowledge of these techniques, multinational corporations can try to protect themselves against industrial espionage by foreign governments.

sroerick 13y ago

What do you think about Greenwald's opinion that it's the goal of the NSA to intercept and record all information or communications? If this is true, than releasing this information may be seen in a different context.

malandrew 13y ago

Until we have true US citizen oversight over the NSA activities to make sure that they are acting purely in a way that is aligned with its charter and legal mission, all this information about its capability also compromises its ability to carry out a perfect tyranny. I think most US citizens would be okay with affording the NSA rights to secrecy if those in the NSA had shown themselves to be exemplary defenders of the US Constitution. Instead, they have demonstrated themselves as the most formidable opponents to the US Constitution, and more specifically the Bill of Rights. Our national security means nothing if the principles upon which the nation is founded are being debased wholesale. The US without the Constitution is not a nation, since the Constitution is the foundation of the shared history and government of the 330 million people that call themselves Americans. An NSA that does not respect the Constitution is the greatest existential threat to national security this country has faced. An organization with the capabilities of the NSA with no real oversight can unilaterally subvert even the healthiest democracy.

notdrunkatall 13y ago

I'm a fan of Snowden, but I agree. He needs to be more selective in what he releases.

eru 13y ago

Who cares about US national security?

vanattab 13y ago
umm...me.
- eru 13y ago
  Yes, but there are more people around.

ZoFreX 13y ago

Snowden leaked a huge amount of data to journalists that he trusted to decide what was in the public interest and what would harm national security. I actually think they have mostly done a good job. I think this story, and the previous one on TAO from Der Spiegel, are substantially different to the other stories that have been run from the leaks. I do think there is an argument that these kind of details weaken security, and it's far, far less clear cut in my mind that the public interest argument outweighs the security argument in this case. If you believe it does not that isn't a belief I would challenge - but blame the journalists who have made the wrong call, not Snowden. Deciding which 0.1% of the 100,000 documents to leak is their job.

ds9 13y ago

So according to you, the USG not being able to spy on everyone, everywhere, all the time compromises "national security"? By that logic, you're threatening your neighbors by not having surveillance cams in your bedroom and bathroom, because you might be doing something nefarious there. I have a better idea: the US should stop interfering in other countries and violating people's rights - then it wouldn't have enemies.