10 ms·

What did you want to know that we didn't share?

by jasonfried 13y ago

dannowatts 13y ago
what your 3 favorite craft beers are!!
- jasonfried 13y ago
  Pick any three from New Glarus! http://www.newglarusbrewing.com http://www.newglarusbrewing.com
  - 100k 13y ago
    As a Minnesotan living in SF, this warms my heart. New Glarus is only available in Wisconsin so anyone bringing some back was very popular.
  - dannowatts 13y ago
    you sir, have good tastes. if you're a fan of IPA's, you should try and have some Pliny, Heady Topper and Ghandi Bot.
rushabh 13y ago
The one time pricing is very interesting. How do you define the $100 one time pricing? What if you decide to cut the product in the middle, do you give a full refund? Is there a time limit (20 years) or is this for as long as the service is alive? Is there a limit on file uploads? Is there a small annual recurring fee for maintenance?
- jasonfried 13y ago
  $100 per person one-time works exactly how it reads. If you have 27 employees, it costs $2700 one time. If you hire 3 more people, it's an extra $300, one time. If you let someone go, and hire another person, it's an extra $100. We don't sell against seats, we sell against unique people. No recurring monthly or annual fees.
  - corry 13y ago
    Hi Jason - mundane accounting question: how do you account for revenue deferral? I believe in general you're supposed to match revenues and expenses as they are incurred providing the services. i.e. Up-front revenue gets deferred over the lifetime of a contract, because you will incur costs of servicing that revenue during that whole time. How does this work when there is no actual term? (Sorry if this is off-topic - we're thinking through some pricing model stuff, and this was top of mind!)
  - rushabh 13y ago
    Thanks for the clarification. It would be very interesting to see if anyone else adopts this pricing. In spite of the flak you get from the HN crowd (the reason I am guessing, might be that you make it deceptively simple to hit $390,000 with 99% retention rate) it is always very refreshing to see your blog posts and the quality of your work is very inspiring. Thanks!
    - itchyouch 13y ago
      Most companies have a bit of turnover every single year. For knowledge based companies like mine, we have 3000 people at the desk. I don't know our turnover numbers, but if i ballpark it at around 20%, that would be $3M up front, then around $15000/yr perpetually, assuming that turnover rate. For large enterprises, the upfront cost requires a bit of coaxing, while the maintenance cost is a no-brainer. I'd be curious to see where they go with larger installations. I'd love to see this product aimed at enterprises for 50-60 employees reporting up to a dirext or middle manager, while also proving insight to the executive team.
  - larrys 13y ago
    From the blog post: "This is a one-time investment, not an ongoing expense." I like the idea and it makes sense. But I think it has to be restated in a way to not sound as if there is a hidden cost that pops out when getting to the fine print. That creates a negative in a buyers mind [1]. Needs to be restated in more of a "ok I understand makes sense" or might backfire. [1] Example: I had a building security system quote (cameras). Company said "we take care of the installation and everything". Quote states more or less "oh yeah but you have to supply 110vac outlets where we will put cameras". Oh great what is that going to cost me? Surprise. To me "everything" means turn key. Doesn't mean I am right but that is what I (not dealing with this every day) thought. My reaction. Had the salesperson said "Installation includes everything but electrical and that's normally $100 per outlet" prior to the quote I would have felt much better about the process.
anon808 13y ago
Why are you spinning off the business if it's profitable? Why isn't Claire joining 37S instead? What's happening to ClarityBox? What other operating scenarios did you guys consider? Who is going to run the business . . . will Claire be doing product development, programming, customer support herself? What exactly will she be doing? Is she hiring people? Who are these people? Of course you don't owe anyone any of that info. However, if you crack the door open just a little bit, don't be offended/surprised etc. if my curiosity is piqued and I want to open it.
- larrys 13y ago
  "Why are you spinning off the business if it's profitable?" I think it makes a lot of sense and is a smart move. Gives an incentive to the person running it to "do their own thing" and by creating a separate entity they can also sell it more easily (if they want to). Or give an equity stake to Claire. And empower her to take chances she might not take if she is just "joining 37 signals" and is all distracted with general company goals. More importantly it even creates a template to start other similar businesses and do the same. And not to get dragged into the day to day of each and every business or product line or decision.
  - anon808 13y ago
    Why not just keep the product in 37Signals if it's a profitable product? "not to get dragged into the day to day of each and every business or product"; 37S has a successful history of getting into the day to day of every business and product, that's what they do exceptionally well. Why change that?
- jasonfried 13y ago
  Know Your Company was a big experiment from the start. A totally new kind of product for us, an entirely new kind of business model for us, etc. And now we're taking that to the next level with an entirely new strategy for us: Spinning it off into it's own autonomous company and letting it find its own direction. As I mentioned in the original post, we wanted to hire Claire to run Know Your Company inside 37signals, but there was a fundamental conflict of interest: She had interviewed everyone at 37signals as part of a consulting project, and knew a lot of details about how everyone felt about the company. Everyone spoke to her in confidence as an outside consultant, not as a colleague. Bringing her into 37signals as an employee later would be a violation of that trust, so we weren't able to hire her. You'd have to ask Claire how she plans on staffing the company, but initially it's just her with a little bit of our help during the transition. As far as I understand, soon she will be bringing someone on part time to help with product development until she's ready to make a full-time hire. Slow, steady, and prudent. Hope that was helpful.

What did you want to know that we didn't share?

dannowatts 13y ago

what your 3 favorite craft beers are!!

jasonfried 13y ago
Pick any three from New Glarus! http://www.newglarusbrewing.com http://www.newglarusbrewing.com
- 100k 13y ago
  As a Minnesotan living in SF, this warms my heart. New Glarus is only available in Wisconsin so anyone bringing some back was very popular.
- dannowatts 13y ago
  you sir, have good tastes. if you're a fan of IPA's, you should try and have some Pliny, Heady Topper and Ghandi Bot.

rushabh 13y ago

The one time pricing is very interesting. How do you define the $100 one time pricing? What if you decide to cut the product in the middle, do you give a full refund? Is there a time limit (20 years) or is this for as long as the service is alive? Is there a limit on file uploads? Is there a small annual recurring fee for maintenance?

jasonfried 13y ago
$100 per person one-time works exactly how it reads. If you have 27 employees, it costs $2700 one time. If you hire 3 more people, it's an extra $300, one time. If you let someone go, and hire another person, it's an extra $100. We don't sell against seats, we sell against unique people. No recurring monthly or annual fees.
- corry 13y ago
  Hi Jason - mundane accounting question: how do you account for revenue deferral? I believe in general you're supposed to match revenues and expenses as they are incurred providing the services. i.e. Up-front revenue gets deferred over the lifetime of a contract, because you will incur costs of servicing that revenue during that whole time. How does this work when there is no actual term? (Sorry if this is off-topic - we're thinking through some pricing model stuff, and this was top of mind!)
- rushabh 13y ago
  Thanks for the clarification. It would be very interesting to see if anyone else adopts this pricing. In spite of the flak you get from the HN crowd (the reason I am guessing, might be that you make it deceptively simple to hit $390,000 with 99% retention rate) it is always very refreshing to see your blog posts and the quality of your work is very inspiring. Thanks!
  - itchyouch 13y ago
    Most companies have a bit of turnover every single year. For knowledge based companies like mine, we have 3000 people at the desk. I don't know our turnover numbers, but if i ballpark it at around 20%, that would be $3M up front, then around $15000/yr perpetually, assuming that turnover rate. For large enterprises, the upfront cost requires a bit of coaxing, while the maintenance cost is a no-brainer. I'd be curious to see where they go with larger installations. I'd love to see this product aimed at enterprises for 50-60 employees reporting up to a dirext or middle manager, while also proving insight to the executive team.
- larrys 13y ago
  From the blog post: "This is a one-time investment, not an ongoing expense." I like the idea and it makes sense. But I think it has to be restated in a way to not sound as if there is a hidden cost that pops out when getting to the fine print. That creates a negative in a buyers mind [1]. Needs to be restated in more of a "ok I understand makes sense" or might backfire. [1] Example: I had a building security system quote (cameras). Company said "we take care of the installation and everything". Quote states more or less "oh yeah but you have to supply 110vac outlets where we will put cameras". Oh great what is that going to cost me? Surprise. To me "everything" means turn key. Doesn't mean I am right but that is what I (not dealing with this every day) thought. My reaction. Had the salesperson said "Installation includes everything but electrical and that's normally $100 per outlet" prior to the quote I would have felt much better about the process.

anon808 13y ago

Why are you spinning off the business if it's profitable? Why isn't Claire joining 37S instead? What's happening to ClarityBox? What other operating scenarios did you guys consider? Who is going to run the business . . . will Claire be doing product development, programming, customer support herself? What exactly will she be doing? Is she hiring people? Who are these people? Of course you don't owe anyone any of that info. However, if you crack the door open just a little bit, don't be offended/surprised etc. if my curiosity is piqued and I want to open it.

larrys 13y ago
"Why are you spinning off the business if it's profitable?" I think it makes a lot of sense and is a smart move. Gives an incentive to the person running it to "do their own thing" and by creating a separate entity they can also sell it more easily (if they want to). Or give an equity stake to Claire. And empower her to take chances she might not take if she is just "joining 37 signals" and is all distracted with general company goals. More importantly it even creates a template to start other similar businesses and do the same. And not to get dragged into the day to day of each and every business or product line or decision.
- anon808 13y ago
  Why not just keep the product in 37Signals if it's a profitable product? "not to get dragged into the day to day of each and every business or product"; 37S has a successful history of getting into the day to day of every business and product, that's what they do exceptionally well. Why change that?
jasonfried 13y ago
Know Your Company was a big experiment from the start. A totally new kind of product for us, an entirely new kind of business model for us, etc. And now we're taking that to the next level with an entirely new strategy for us: Spinning it off into it's own autonomous company and letting it find its own direction. As I mentioned in the original post, we wanted to hire Claire to run Know Your Company inside 37signals, but there was a fundamental conflict of interest: She had interviewed everyone at 37signals as part of a consulting project, and knew a lot of details about how everyone felt about the company. Everyone spoke to her in confidence as an outside consultant, not as a colleague. Bringing her into 37signals as an employee later would be a violation of that trust, so we weren't able to hire her. You'd have to ask Claire how she plans on staffing the company, but initially it's just her with a little bit of our help during the transition. As far as I understand, soon she will be bringing someone on part time to help with product development until she's ready to make a full-time hire. Slow, steady, and prudent. Hope that was helpful.