7 ms·

Mainframe2: Run any software in a browser

35 points by Charles__L 13y ago

TallGuyShort 13y ago
I might suggest changing the text color of the quote - it's very hard to read some of it on the bright-sunlight background. So is this basically software run on a remote machine, but presented visually and interactively VNC-style in my browser? Looks a lot smoother than VNC, of course, just trying to get a feel for what the product is.
- ExpiredLink 13y ago
  Bedazzled by the bright sunlight. I guess that's intentional.
- lelandbatey 13y ago
  The background color makes it so I can only see this: http://i.imgur.com/P4i6X0N.jpg http://i.imgur.com/P4i6X0N.jpg Run any softw.... Brian Madden "It's one fo the m...."
rpedela 13y ago
It sounds great (we will see if it is of course), but then there is some stuff about outsourcing on the infographic page which just confused me. What does outsourcing have to do with running my application on their servers? Are they offering an outsourcing service? Also I got a "browser not supported" error when I played the video. I am running Ubuntu with Firefox. Honestly not a good sign...
- runako 13y ago
  >> What does outsourcing have to do with running my application on their servers? I'm guessing it's because the hiring company can point a contractor at a pre-configured machine with a known stack, data, etc. (kind of like using the company laptop).
adrianpike 13y ago
That's pretty neat - I hadn't heard about NVIDIA GRID before - http://www.nvidia.com/object/nvidia-grid.html http://www.nvidia.com/object/nvidia-grid.html
jareds 13y ago
As a Mainframe programmer I was Disappointed when I looked at the page. I was hoping this would be a web based Mainframe emulator possibly running public domain versions of OS/360.
- justincormack 13y ago
  instead its just the modern HTML5 teletype connected to cloud mainframe.
- TallGuyShort 13y ago
  ... then you must enjoy this classic: http://www.coboloncogs.org/INDEX.HTM http://www.coboloncogs.org/INDEX.HTM I've toyed with the idea of setting up mainframes-as-a-service. I would probably just run the various Linux distributions running inside Hercules and abstract it away as cleanly as possible. You'd never get the performance or capacity, but you'd get a cheap, easy emulation for coding and small-scale testing. It's been a while since I had time for a side-project but I'd still love to work on this.
  - aus_ 13y ago
    This isn't actually too far fetched. IBM has a product called Rational Developer and Test Environment for System z[0] which allows you to run z/OS or any other s390 architecture in their hypervisor. Think of it as an enterprise version of Hercules that runs the latest version mainframe software. (Hercules can but licensing prevents this.) You could then essentially build a real "mainframe-as-a-service" (as you said) by deploying a Linux VM that has RDT installed and configured. Mainframe developers can spin up their VMs for on-demand dev and QA enivornments. I know, because I am the system programmer who set this up internally at my company. [0]: http://www-03.ibm.com/software/products/en/ratideveandtestenviforsystz/ http://www-03.ibm.com/software/products/en/ratideveandtesten...
    - bri3d 13y ago
      I don't think IBM would license RDT for use as a mainframe-as-a-service, so Hercules would be just as illegal (and probably easier to set up).
wmf 13y ago
To be clear, this does not run software in the browser; it runs software in the cloud and displays it in the browser. Given the possibility of actually running apps in the browser I think this distinction matters.
- samspenc 13y ago
  Excellent point. I doubt that non-techie users will make that distinction, but agreed that its not quite accurate.
  - mikeash 13y ago
    Non-techie users will definitely make the distinction of "does it work on slow internet connections, or without a connection at all?" Even if they don't know what causes the distinction.
  - mtdewcmu 13y ago
    Techies like me will be puzzled by the incredible claim they're making without any explanation. In truth, I wouldn't have given it any credibility if it hadn't been on the front page of HN.
- mtdewcmu 13y ago
  I clicked the link to figure out how they solved the numerous technical problems of running native applications in a browser. It's a deceptive claim, and the web page is content-free, all marketing. I don't think it belongs on HN, at least not with that headline.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - widerlens 13y ago
    You can click on the player to run a Windows app (Blender) in your browser -- how is that content free?
zupa-hu 13y ago
this sounds like the second coming of the webOS concept http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_operating_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_operating_system
vsviridov 13y ago
With Amazon's cloud desktop announcement, these guys will be in a tight spot...
- wrongc0ntinent 13y ago
  It can run on AWS: http://venturebeat.com/2013/11/13/mainframe2-which-pipes-windows-apps-to-your-browser-gets-a-boost-from-amazon/ http://venturebeat.com/2013/11/13/mainframe2-which-pipes-win...
alasdair_ 13y ago
Does this mean I can play games while not on my gaming PC? EDIT: NM, looks like it's just something like VNC.
- j_s 13y ago
  You might have missed the current discussion of SteamOS streaming: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6901223 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6901223
lcampbell 13y ago
> You can upload any application from Mainframe2 in 10 minutes. With Citrix or VMWare, it takes at least four months to do the same thing.[1] Four months? I am at a loss for words. -- [1] http://www.mainframe2.com/infographic http://www.mainframe2.com/infographic
- mtdewcmu 13y ago
  I guess the assumption is that if you're running the application with Citrix or VMWare, you'd have no other choice but to travel to the cloud datacenter on foot and install it manually on the server from a DVD. Fair assumption, I guess.
D9u 13y ago
Your browser is not supported. Mainframe2 Beta supports the latest Chrome (Windows/Mac) or Safari (Mac). It doesn't run on my Linux setup. Too bad, if it ran on more device types, especially mobile, this would be a killer.
n00b101 13y ago
This sounds like a good option for SaaS providers.
kayoone 13y ago
PC-over-IP is coming and already has HTML5 clients. With dedicated decoding hardware you can even play streamed games at low latency and good framerates http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YJwekaJ6Ys http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YJwekaJ6Ys I wonder where personal computing will go. Either this where the personal pc is more or less a dumb terminal, or something like ChromeOS with a Client/Server hybrid approach.
- riskable 13y ago
  Another example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zJ8TNcWTyo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zJ8TNcWTyo That's Gate One's forthcoming X11 feature. Still haven't got audio working yet...
  - vitovito 13y ago
    I tried really hard to get audio out of a remote Xen VM without a soundcard, for quite some time, and failed. Happy to send you my notes, see if you get farther.
  - kayoone 13y ago
    thats looks amazing, signed up :)
- widerlens 13y ago
  PC-over-IP is a protocol. Mainframe2 is a service. It's like comparing SVN to Dropbox. Also, apps on Mainframe2 run just fine on Chromebook today (we'll post back once public demo is ready). Nikola (founder at Mainframe2)
  - kayoone 13y ago
    I know, this was just meant more as a general comment on the industry. Mainframe2 looks really interesting and i see the potential, cant wait to try out more!
frio80 13y ago
Cool but haven't we seen this before? IMO, something really groundbreaking is numecent's cloudpaging[0] technology. Have a look. [0] http://www.numecent.com/technology/cloudpaging.html http://www.numecent.com/technology/cloudpaging.html
widerlens 13y ago
I'm Nikola, a founder of Mainframe2. Lots of good questions -- you can find a good info on what we do here: http://www.brianmadden.com/blogs/brianmadden/archive/2013/12/09/mainframe2.aspx http://www.brianmadden.com/blogs/brianmadden/archive/2013/12... 1. We'll support all HTML5 compliant browsers on all OSs at launch. This public demo is designed as a technology preview and we're primarily focused on user experience, not necessarily feature completeness. If you still want to try the demo, we recommend Chrome -- it's is lightweight and free. 2. It's running on AWS G2 instance with NVIDIA GRID indeed. 3. Any Windows (and soon Linux) app can be onboarded to the system in about 10 minutes, then scaled/delivered to thousands of users. 4. There are also native terminals for Windows, Mac, iOS, and Android. 5. Session time is limited to a couple of minutes (to handle the load) but you can jump back in if you want to. For more details and early access, sign up for our beta (there's a form on our home page). Cheers, Nikola
brandonhsiao 13y ago
Looks like the final nail in the coffin for Microsoft/Windows.
erazzzor 13y ago
guys, but you are all missing the point here. with mainframe2 and other companies in the space (such as, khm, Amazon with their AppStream) software vendors get to deliver big old windows applications such as Photoshop, AutoCAD etc to a number of users who either don't have big windows workstations to run them, don't want to bother downloading and installing gigabytes of software, or don't want to pay many $$$ for a perpetual license when they only need to use the software few hours a month. Now they can all transition to SaaS .. there was another company in the space that got my attention called OTOY. They made partnerships with Mozilla and AutoDesk to deliver AutoDesk tools in the browser, their demos also look pretty cool though I'm not sure what's their commercial offer gonna be, likely not the full stack like mainframe2 ..
michaelmior 13y ago
If it's pure HTML5, why does it refuse to work on Linux?
X4 13y ago
I tried with Firefox 25 and Google Chrome 31. Doesn't work on any of them. "I'm getting: Your browser is not supported"
djolex 13y ago
This is such a briliant concept. U dont need supercomputer to run hardcore apps from your home computer, but you can still be as much productive as working on latest and fastest computer. Keep up the good work. Djolex

35 points by Charles__L 13y ago

I might suggest changing the text color of the quote - it's very hard to read some of it on the bright-sunlight background. So is this basically software run on a remote machine, but presented visually and interactively VNC-style in my browser? Looks a lot smoother than VNC, of course, just trying to get a feel for what the product is.

ExpiredLink 13y ago
Bedazzled by the bright sunlight. I guess that's intentional.
lelandbatey 13y ago
The background color makes it so I can only see this: http://i.imgur.com/P4i6X0N.jpg http://i.imgur.com/P4i6X0N.jpg Run any softw.... Brian Madden "It's one fo the m...."

rpedela 13y ago

It sounds great (we will see if it is of course), but then there is some stuff about outsourcing on the infographic page which just confused me. What does outsourcing have to do with running my application on their servers? Are they offering an outsourcing service? Also I got a "browser not supported" error when I played the video. I am running Ubuntu with Firefox. Honestly not a good sign...

runako 13y ago
>> What does outsourcing have to do with running my application on their servers? I'm guessing it's because the hiring company can point a contractor at a pre-configured machine with a known stack, data, etc. (kind of like using the company laptop).

adrianpike 13y ago

That's pretty neat - I hadn't heard about NVIDIA GRID before - http://www.nvidia.com/object/nvidia-grid.html http://www.nvidia.com/object/nvidia-grid.html

jareds 13y ago

As a Mainframe programmer I was Disappointed when I looked at the page. I was hoping this would be a web based Mainframe emulator possibly running public domain versions of OS/360.

justincormack 13y ago
instead its just the modern HTML5 teletype connected to cloud mainframe.
TallGuyShort 13y ago
... then you must enjoy this classic: http://www.coboloncogs.org/INDEX.HTM http://www.coboloncogs.org/INDEX.HTM I've toyed with the idea of setting up mainframes-as-a-service. I would probably just run the various Linux distributions running inside Hercules and abstract it away as cleanly as possible. You'd never get the performance or capacity, but you'd get a cheap, easy emulation for coding and small-scale testing. It's been a while since I had time for a side-project but I'd still love to work on this.
- aus_ 13y ago
  This isn't actually too far fetched. IBM has a product called Rational Developer and Test Environment for System z[0] which allows you to run z/OS or any other s390 architecture in their hypervisor. Think of it as an enterprise version of Hercules that runs the latest version mainframe software. (Hercules can but licensing prevents this.) You could then essentially build a real "mainframe-as-a-service" (as you said) by deploying a Linux VM that has RDT installed and configured. Mainframe developers can spin up their VMs for on-demand dev and QA enivornments. I know, because I am the system programmer who set this up internally at my company. [0]: http://www-03.ibm.com/software/products/en/ratideveandtestenviforsystz/ http://www-03.ibm.com/software/products/en/ratideveandtesten...
  - bri3d 13y ago
    I don't think IBM would license RDT for use as a mainframe-as-a-service, so Hercules would be just as illegal (and probably easier to set up).

wmf 13y ago

To be clear, this does not run software in the browser; it runs software in the cloud and displays it in the browser. Given the possibility of actually running apps in the browser I think this distinction matters.

samspenc 13y ago
Excellent point. I doubt that non-techie users will make that distinction, but agreed that its not quite accurate.
- mikeash 13y ago
  Non-techie users will definitely make the distinction of "does it work on slow internet connections, or without a connection at all?" Even if they don't know what causes the distinction.
- mtdewcmu 13y ago
  Techies like me will be puzzled by the incredible claim they're making without any explanation. In truth, I wouldn't have given it any credibility if it hadn't been on the front page of HN.
mtdewcmu 13y ago
I clicked the link to figure out how they solved the numerous technical problems of running native applications in a browser. It's a deceptive claim, and the web page is content-free, all marketing. I don't think it belongs on HN, at least not with that headline.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- widerlens 13y ago
  You can click on the player to run a Windows app (Blender) in your browser -- how is that content free?

zupa-hu 13y ago

this sounds like the second coming of the webOS concept http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_operating_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_operating_system

vsviridov 13y ago

With Amazon's cloud desktop announcement, these guys will be in a tight spot...

wrongc0ntinent 13y ago
It can run on AWS: http://venturebeat.com/2013/11/13/mainframe2-which-pipes-windows-apps-to-your-browser-gets-a-boost-from-amazon/ http://venturebeat.com/2013/11/13/mainframe2-which-pipes-win...

alasdair_ 13y ago

Does this mean I can play games while not on my gaming PC? EDIT: NM, looks like it's just something like VNC.

j_s 13y ago
You might have missed the current discussion of SteamOS streaming: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6901223 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6901223

lcampbell 13y ago

> You can upload any application from Mainframe2 in 10 minutes. With Citrix or VMWare, it takes at least four months to do the same thing.[1] Four months? I am at a loss for words. -- [1] http://www.mainframe2.com/infographic http://www.mainframe2.com/infographic

mtdewcmu 13y ago
I guess the assumption is that if you're running the application with Citrix or VMWare, you'd have no other choice but to travel to the cloud datacenter on foot and install it manually on the server from a DVD. Fair assumption, I guess.

D9u 13y ago

Your browser is not supported. Mainframe2 Beta supports the latest Chrome (Windows/Mac) or Safari (Mac). It doesn't run on my Linux setup. Too bad, if it ran on more device types, especially mobile, this would be a killer.

n00b101 13y ago

This sounds like a good option for SaaS providers.

kayoone 13y ago

PC-over-IP is coming and already has HTML5 clients. With dedicated decoding hardware you can even play streamed games at low latency and good framerates http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YJwekaJ6Ys http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YJwekaJ6Ys I wonder where personal computing will go. Either this where the personal pc is more or less a dumb terminal, or something like ChromeOS with a Client/Server hybrid approach.

riskable 13y ago
Another example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zJ8TNcWTyo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zJ8TNcWTyo That's Gate One's forthcoming X11 feature. Still haven't got audio working yet...
- vitovito 13y ago
  I tried really hard to get audio out of a remote Xen VM without a soundcard, for quite some time, and failed. Happy to send you my notes, see if you get farther.
- kayoone 13y ago
  thats looks amazing, signed up :)
widerlens 13y ago
PC-over-IP is a protocol. Mainframe2 is a service. It's like comparing SVN to Dropbox. Also, apps on Mainframe2 run just fine on Chromebook today (we'll post back once public demo is ready). Nikola (founder at Mainframe2)
- kayoone 13y ago
  I know, this was just meant more as a general comment on the industry. Mainframe2 looks really interesting and i see the potential, cant wait to try out more!

frio80 13y ago

Cool but haven't we seen this before? IMO, something really groundbreaking is numecent's cloudpaging[0] technology. Have a look. [0] http://www.numecent.com/technology/cloudpaging.html http://www.numecent.com/technology/cloudpaging.html

widerlens 13y ago

I'm Nikola, a founder of Mainframe2. Lots of good questions -- you can find a good info on what we do here: http://www.brianmadden.com/blogs/brianmadden/archive/2013/12/09/mainframe2.aspx http://www.brianmadden.com/blogs/brianmadden/archive/2013/12... 1. We'll support all HTML5 compliant browsers on all OSs at launch. This public demo is designed as a technology preview and we're primarily focused on user experience, not necessarily feature completeness. If you still want to try the demo, we recommend Chrome -- it's is lightweight and free. 2. It's running on AWS G2 instance with NVIDIA GRID indeed. 3. Any Windows (and soon Linux) app can be onboarded to the system in about 10 minutes, then scaled/delivered to thousands of users. 4. There are also native terminals for Windows, Mac, iOS, and Android. 5. Session time is limited to a couple of minutes (to handle the load) but you can jump back in if you want to. For more details and early access, sign up for our beta (there's a form on our home page). Cheers, Nikola

brandonhsiao 13y ago

Looks like the final nail in the coffin for Microsoft/Windows.

erazzzor 13y ago

guys, but you are all missing the point here. with mainframe2 and other companies in the space (such as, khm, Amazon with their AppStream) software vendors get to deliver big old windows applications such as Photoshop, AutoCAD etc to a number of users who either don't have big windows workstations to run them, don't want to bother downloading and installing gigabytes of software, or don't want to pay many $$$ for a perpetual license when they only need to use the software few hours a month. Now they can all transition to SaaS .. there was another company in the space that got my attention called OTOY. They made partnerships with Mozilla and AutoDesk to deliver AutoDesk tools in the browser, their demos also look pretty cool though I'm not sure what's their commercial offer gonna be, likely not the full stack like mainframe2 ..

michaelmior 13y ago

If it's pure HTML5, why does it refuse to work on Linux?

X4 13y ago

I tried with Firefox 25 and Google Chrome 31. Doesn't work on any of them. "I'm getting: Your browser is not supported"

djolex 13y ago

This is such a briliant concept. U dont need supercomputer to run hardcore apps from your home computer, but you can still be as much productive as working on latest and fastest computer. Keep up the good work. Djolex