6 ms·

Newell's history of porting Doom to Windows to show it can be a gaming platform

72 points by kiisupai 13y ago

pjmlp 13y ago
Well, those of us that were already coding for Windows back then, remember that what brought game studios to Windows was WinG, the percursor of DirectX. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinG http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinG Gabe Newell had nothing to do with it.
- ChrisClark 13y ago
  I completely forgot about WinG. I think I remember a test it ran when installing to find the fastest way to blit bitmaps. A tiled curvy red line that would flip tile directions back and forth.
- agumonkey 13y ago
  <digression> reading this took me down memory lane, I ended rediscovering windows midi songs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtoHxMWw354 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtoHxMWw354
  - pjmlp 13y ago
    Thanks for sharing the link.
- cincinnatus 13y ago
  Came here to say this. Gabe is welcome to his version of events but like all humans is suffering from selective memory syndrome. Alex St. John is the one who "made it happen" in my recollection, and I was pretty close to the action.
- corresation 13y ago
  Gabe Newell worked for Microsoft at the time in question. He is saying that as a principal Microsoft employee he initiated the port of Doom because Microsoft saw the problem getting game authors to target Windows. Notable that Alex St. John then led the development team, for those who note his obvious importance in gaming on Windows.
- astrodust 13y ago
  Yeah, Gabe's role is massively overstated here, but it's important to remember how awful a development platform Windows was for games, that compared to DOS it was far, far worse than Linux is today. In DOS mode you could easily get full-screen, high-frame rate game graphics. In Windows you'd be lucky if you could push more than one frame per second, the Windows GDI was absolutely brutal. Linux is a lot further ahead, so SteamOS has a relative head start. If Windows can be made into a first-class gaming platform, so can Linux.
ekianjo 13y ago
OMG, the comments below that first post are full of ignorance. It's just so painful to see what people think and say of Linux (even the ones who defend it).
- MarkTanamil 13y ago
  i no rite, wen theez fagots gna lern?
- sbarre 13y ago
  Was this your first introduction to NeoGAF or other gaming boards? It's pretty depressing isn't it? It's the primary reason I stopped frequenting video game communities.. Which is a shame because I've been a gamer all my life, and I wish there was a vibrant (and large) community for intelligent discussion like Hacker News but that was game focused.. I'm sure there is somewhere, but I haven't found it..
  - nekopa 13y ago
    It may take a while, but have you thought about starting one yourself like lobste.rs did? I think the code for HN is available somewhere(an older version at least) then just troll the gamer sites and give invites to those who contribute well to discussions.
    - sbarre 13y ago
      Honestly: I would love to do something like that, I just don't have the time and energy to tackle that kind of thing.
  - ekianjo 13y ago
    I knew Neogaf but did not really check it very often. > and I wish there was a vibrant (and large) community for intelligent discussion like Hacker News I was thinking the exact same thing ! We really should try to do something about that. Interested?
    - 13y ago
lazyjones 13y ago
That's a bit simplified. More details about this story can be found in the very entertaining book "Masters of Doom" (about John Carmack and John Romero).
- Auguste 13y ago
  This is an excellent book. It's not just about Carmack and Romero (although it focuses on them) but also about id Software as a company, from its inception through to a few months before Quake III came out, if I remember correctly. A very insightful read.
- mrschwabe 13y ago
  Loved this book. Bought a few copies for friends to hopefully inspire them about what a small, scrappy team of talented individuals can achieve (and the fun... and pitfalls along the way).
sbarre 13y ago
I would think that times were a bit different back then, and it's not really a fair comparison to make. Companies today that are the size of id software back then, and that are making games of relatively equal complexity, are already publishing to Linux. There were no 200-person studios cranking out $10 million dollar (or more) game projects when Doom came out, and that's a much more complex issue to address.. We're barely seeing OS X ports of major titles now, so while I think SteamOS is great, I don't think it's going to suddenly mean an influx of AAA Windows titles appearing on Linux.
- evadne 13y ago
  A bunch of titles are available for OS X thru Aspyr [1] with porting latency measured in months. [1] http://www.aspyr.com/ http://www.aspyr.com/
nailer 13y ago
WAIT. Newell's Windows port (commonly referred to as DOOM95 http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Doom95 http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Doom95) was never popular and very few DOOM players knew it even existed. It certainly didn't prove to the masses that Windows was a viable gaming platform. Those that do recall the Windows port do so in the the context of Microsoft telling people that '32 bit Doom will be twice as fast' before finding out that wasn't true. The most popular - read 'only' - PC version of Doom was the DOS 4GW version. Ditto Doom 2, Hexen, etc. Quake also assumed DOS. No Windows port of those games was mainstream. Go read the DOOM FAQ - everything assumes DOS, DOOM95/WinDOOM is only mentioned as one of many ports of 'regular' (DOS) DOOM http://www.gamers.org/docs/FAQ/doomfaq/sect1.html#5-6 http://www.gamers.org/docs/FAQ/doomfaq/sect1.html#5-6). DOOM was released in the era of 386s (when 486s were new). 32 bit Windows required at practically at least 16MB of memory and a 486. For the people that had those specs, if the Windows DOOM port was faster, people would have used it - but they didn't, because DOOM95 wasn't faster. DOOM95 may have been used to inspire developers however - the regular PC version of Quake 2 came with a Windows installer / launcher and was frequently launched on Windows. Source: spent my teenage years building stuff like http://mikemaccana.com/#/doom-the-path/ http://mikemaccana.com/#/doom-the-path/ in DEU, the first algorithm I ever heard of was BSP, and I know what IDSPISPOPD stands for. PS. Go play my and John's WAD linked above. It has working toilets. In DOOM!
- blahbl4hblah 13y ago
  True dat.
- jasonlotito 13y ago
  > WAIT. Newell's Windows port (commonly referred to as DOOM95 http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Doom95 http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Doom95) was never popular and very few DOOM players knew it even existed. It certainly didn't prove to the masses that Windows was a viable gaming platform. Not sure where the original article ever makes those claims.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - 13y ago
mekpro 13y ago
Although DOOM95 was not a success, it doesn't mean that what Newell believe was wrong. Also it's pretty clear that many people buy/use computer for solely entertainment purpose and that's why consoles sold.

72 points by kiisupai 13y ago

pjmlp 13y ago

Well, those of us that were already coding for Windows back then, remember that what brought game studios to Windows was WinG, the percursor of DirectX. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinG http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WinG Gabe Newell had nothing to do with it.

ChrisClark 13y ago
I completely forgot about WinG. I think I remember a test it ran when installing to find the fastest way to blit bitmaps. A tiled curvy red line that would flip tile directions back and forth.
agumonkey 13y ago
<digression> reading this took me down memory lane, I ended rediscovering windows midi songs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtoHxMWw354 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtoHxMWw354
- pjmlp 13y ago
  Thanks for sharing the link.
cincinnatus 13y ago
Came here to say this. Gabe is welcome to his version of events but like all humans is suffering from selective memory syndrome. Alex St. John is the one who "made it happen" in my recollection, and I was pretty close to the action.
corresation 13y ago
Gabe Newell worked for Microsoft at the time in question. He is saying that as a principal Microsoft employee he initiated the port of Doom because Microsoft saw the problem getting game authors to target Windows. Notable that Alex St. John then led the development team, for those who note his obvious importance in gaming on Windows.
astrodust 13y ago
Yeah, Gabe's role is massively overstated here, but it's important to remember how awful a development platform Windows was for games, that compared to DOS it was far, far worse than Linux is today. In DOS mode you could easily get full-screen, high-frame rate game graphics. In Windows you'd be lucky if you could push more than one frame per second, the Windows GDI was absolutely brutal. Linux is a lot further ahead, so SteamOS has a relative head start. If Windows can be made into a first-class gaming platform, so can Linux.

ekianjo 13y ago

OMG, the comments below that first post are full of ignorance. It's just so painful to see what people think and say of Linux (even the ones who defend it).

MarkTanamil 13y ago
i no rite, wen theez fagots gna lern?
sbarre 13y ago
Was this your first introduction to NeoGAF or other gaming boards? It's pretty depressing isn't it? It's the primary reason I stopped frequenting video game communities.. Which is a shame because I've been a gamer all my life, and I wish there was a vibrant (and large) community for intelligent discussion like Hacker News but that was game focused.. I'm sure there is somewhere, but I haven't found it..
- nekopa 13y ago
  It may take a while, but have you thought about starting one yourself like lobste.rs did? I think the code for HN is available somewhere(an older version at least) then just troll the gamer sites and give invites to those who contribute well to discussions.
  - sbarre 13y ago
    Honestly: I would love to do something like that, I just don't have the time and energy to tackle that kind of thing.
- ekianjo 13y ago
  I knew Neogaf but did not really check it very often. > and I wish there was a vibrant (and large) community for intelligent discussion like Hacker News I was thinking the exact same thing ! We really should try to do something about that. Interested?
  - 13y ago

lazyjones 13y ago

That's a bit simplified. More details about this story can be found in the very entertaining book "Masters of Doom" (about John Carmack and John Romero).

Auguste 13y ago
This is an excellent book. It's not just about Carmack and Romero (although it focuses on them) but also about id Software as a company, from its inception through to a few months before Quake III came out, if I remember correctly. A very insightful read.
mrschwabe 13y ago
Loved this book. Bought a few copies for friends to hopefully inspire them about what a small, scrappy team of talented individuals can achieve (and the fun... and pitfalls along the way).

sbarre 13y ago

I would think that times were a bit different back then, and it's not really a fair comparison to make. Companies today that are the size of id software back then, and that are making games of relatively equal complexity, are already publishing to Linux. There were no 200-person studios cranking out $10 million dollar (or more) game projects when Doom came out, and that's a much more complex issue to address.. We're barely seeing OS X ports of major titles now, so while I think SteamOS is great, I don't think it's going to suddenly mean an influx of AAA Windows titles appearing on Linux.

evadne 13y ago
A bunch of titles are available for OS X thru Aspyr [1] with porting latency measured in months. [1] http://www.aspyr.com/ http://www.aspyr.com/

nailer 13y ago

WAIT. Newell's Windows port (commonly referred to as DOOM95 http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Doom95 http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Doom95) was never popular and very few DOOM players knew it even existed. It certainly didn't prove to the masses that Windows was a viable gaming platform. Those that do recall the Windows port do so in the the context of Microsoft telling people that '32 bit Doom will be twice as fast' before finding out that wasn't true. The most popular - read 'only' - PC version of Doom was the DOS 4GW version. Ditto Doom 2, Hexen, etc. Quake also assumed DOS. No Windows port of those games was mainstream. Go read the DOOM FAQ - everything assumes DOS, DOOM95/WinDOOM is only mentioned as one of many ports of 'regular' (DOS) DOOM http://www.gamers.org/docs/FAQ/doomfaq/sect1.html#5-6 http://www.gamers.org/docs/FAQ/doomfaq/sect1.html#5-6). DOOM was released in the era of 386s (when 486s were new). 32 bit Windows required at practically at least 16MB of memory and a 486. For the people that had those specs, if the Windows DOOM port was faster, people would have used it - but they didn't, because DOOM95 wasn't faster. DOOM95 may have been used to inspire developers however - the regular PC version of Quake 2 came with a Windows installer / launcher and was frequently launched on Windows. Source: spent my teenage years building stuff like http://mikemaccana.com/#/doom-the-path/ http://mikemaccana.com/#/doom-the-path/ in DEU, the first algorithm I ever heard of was BSP, and I know what IDSPISPOPD stands for. PS. Go play my and John's WAD linked above. It has working toilets. In DOOM!

blahbl4hblah 13y ago
True dat.
jasonlotito 13y ago
> WAIT. Newell's Windows port (commonly referred to as DOOM95 http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Doom95 http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/Doom95) was never popular and very few DOOM players knew it even existed. It certainly didn't prove to the masses that Windows was a viable gaming platform. Not sure where the original article ever makes those claims.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- 13y ago

mekpro 13y ago

Although DOOM95 was not a success, it doesn't mean that what Newell believe was wrong. Also it's pretty clear that many people buy/use computer for solely entertainment purpose and that's why consoles sold.