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"Forensics for Prosecutors" mentions backdoor in TrueCrypt (page 15) [pdf]
- andrewpi 13y agoWouldn't any backdoor used in a criminal prosecution have to be disclosed to the defense?
- na85 13y agoScroll down a bit; all they have to disclose is that the files "were forensically obtained."
- andrewpi 13y agoI saw that, but I still don't see how that works in a trial. Said evidence will need to be introduced in court. When the witness tries to be cute by giving a vague answer, can't the defense just ask the witness to explain further?
- DannyBee 13y agoThis is entirely false. For gods sake, you have to put lab technicians on the stand for cross examination when they test your blood. For something like this, a report gets written, and the person who wrote it gets cross examined.
- D9u 13y agoParallel reconstruction... http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/08/07/uk-dea-irs-idUKBRE9761B620130807 http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/08/07/uk-dea-irs-idUKBRE9...
- fnordfnordfnord 13y agoNope, this is what Ginsburg would call an instruction manual for how to defeat the 4th amendment. The use of backdoors cannot be detected or proven Vendors are legally and commercially prevented from acknowledging their backdoors. Defense will not be able to prove their existence
- peter_l_downs 13y agoWorth mentioning that truecrypt volumes can be hidden inside playable video files. Yes, it's security through obscurity, but hey, it makes me feel a little safer. http://keyj.emphy.de/real-steganography-with-truecrypt/ http://keyj.emphy.de/real-steganography-with-truecrypt/
- unimpressive 13y agoMentioning a steganographic technique implies that you use it, negating the point.
- peter_l_downs 13y ago*speaking hypothetically of course.
- scott_karana 13y agoNot completely. How many video files does he have? Where is it stored? I'm curious now though, do Truecrypt volumes have a magic number, in which case it's still easy to find, or are they fully crypographically random in appearance, making this a known-needle in a large haystack problem?
- Houshalter 13y agoTruecrypt claims an encrypted volume is indistinguishable from random data. I do not know if this is the case though. Obviously don't give it the file a stupid name or extension like "encryptedfiles.tc" or leave it open in your file history, etc. It's also pretty suspicious if someone has a file of megabytes of random data.
- coin 13y agoThe file size will far exceed the normal size of the video - easily detectable.
- nitrogen 13y agoPage 16 has some wonderful lines: • “Fruit of the poisonous tree” can be circumvented • The use of backdoors cannot be detected or proven • Vendors are legally and commercially prevented from acknowledging their backdoors. Defense will not be able to prove their existence • The files can be described as “forensically obtained”
- dmourati 13y agoFOTPT: http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fruit_of_the_poisonous_tree
- fluidcruft 13y ago...but how is the prosecution able to prove the files exist on someone's device if they don't have to disclose how they determined that the files were present? If all they have to do is assert that the files exist and were "forensically obtained" then why bother with the backdoor in the first place?
- DannyBee 13y agoThey are required to disclose everything. This slide reads like it was written by someone whose knowledge of criminal procedure comes from TV.
- nitrogen 13y agoThe title page credits the document to a presentation by a detective in Oregon. Have any journalists tried to verify the source and accuracy of this document? It's unclear from the article submission why it was submitted or how the submitter found it. Edit: I just read the current top comment listing the names of the supposed presenters.
- DannyBee 13y agoThis is of course, completely false in every way. No prosecutor would ever be dumb enough to say any of this.
- frenger 13y agoTruecrypt is open source. Can anyone find the backdoor?
- sounds 13y ago"Reflections on trusting trust" [1] may be necessary here. When you install Truecrypt, do you download a packaged binary app? Or do you compile it from source? Do you trust your compiler? Until you know what the backdoor actually _is_, please don't stop just because you audited the source code. [1] a good summary is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backdoor_%28computing%29#Reflections_on_Trusting_Trust http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backdoor_%28computing%29#Reflec...
- joe_the_user 13y agoA bit of Googling got me: "Is Truecrypt A CIA honeypot" http://www.privacylover.com/encryption/analysis-is-there-a-backdoor-in-truecrypt-is-truecrypt-a-cia-honeypot/ http://www.privacylover.com/encryption/analysis-is-there-a-b... Seems like paranoia is looking just in general more plausible today.
- azelfrath 13y agoEDIT: Ignore that. I figured a slide show would not skip slides when you use arrow keys for navigation. Can I get a direct quote? I'm not seeing any mention of TC on p15 or any other page.
- threepointone 13y agoI'll quote it here anyway, for the benefit of other readers - What’s A Backdoor? • A method to bypass data encryption or security • Does not require the password or passphrase to be known • Saves time, cost and effort to access encrypted or secured data • Allows data to be accessed, copied and even modified without tipping off the owner • Currently available for major encryption software – Microsoft Bitlocker, FileVault, BestCrypt, TrueCrypt, etc • Currently implemented by major cloud storage provider to comply with NCMEC requirements
- WestCoastJustin 13y agoA few gems in here besides the TrueCrypt statement, mainly that Apple iCloud and Dropbox are named, and the legal framework is touched upon. All cloud stored content are automatically hash-scanned and image-analyzed by their service providers and infringing content reported to NCMEC (p16) Mobile content are automatically scanned when they are synced with cloud storage like Apple iCloud or Dropbox. Mobile devices that are not cloud-synced can be accessed by their respective vendors (p16) If I am reading this correctly, when you upload something to Apple iCloud or Dropbox, there is a background process which generates a hash of your content, then compares that hash with infringing content? What defense do companies have? What about proof that these claims are true (sources, etc)? Can anyone just leak a document that claims XYZ tech company spies on its users and everyone takes this as fact? Vendors are legally and commercially prevented from acknowledging their backdoors. Defense will not be able to prove their existence (p16) Great, blanket denial either way! I hope this is a hoax!
- nwh 13y agoYou missed a big one there. Mobile devices that are not cloud-synced can be accessed by their respective vendors Essentially; iOS and Android have a remote backdoor available to the US government.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- bilbo0s 13y agoYep... I was thinking... "Wow... why is this guy worried about Dropbox?" The Dropbox problem is solvable... just don't use Dropbox. But how are you going to use a phone without using iOS or Android. (All of the other mobile OSes are probably backdoored as well)
- nine_k 13y agoI wonder if my next pone should be Mozila-based.
- 13y ago
- xarball 13y agoThis really doesn't sound legit. I suspect they might be thinking of backdooring the truecrypt client, which, really wouldn't make it much of a feat. The container format itself is really just a giant mathematical mess -- there really isn't anything to backdoor there. And then the client doesn't exactly dial-out to anything when you mount an encrypted volume. Therefore I would suggest that this is probably a matter of using alternative means of access to the machine in order to patch the client itself. That wouldn't exactly be worthy of the attention of the NSA, given that truecrypt is open-source.
- unimpressive 13y agouser: xarball created: 2 minutes ago Any reason you're using a throwaway?
- detcader 13y agoIsrael hires pro-government internet commenters, it'll come out that the US does as well soon, just like everything Israel does "first"
- unimpressive 13y agoThe current downvotes on your comment are why I didn't say "This really doesn't sound legit." instead of what I did (that and there is a genuine possibility for the commenter to have a real reason for using a throwaway).
- Ergomane 13y ago> The container format itself is really just a giant mathematical mess -- there really isn't anything to backdoor there. The container itself can actually be 'backdoored' by a malicious client by eg saving a duplicate of the master key, or generating a master key using a deliberately weak RNG.
- tylerkahn 13y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_boot_attack http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_boot_attack There's your backdoor.
- dchichkov 13y agoIt is a shame that the Firewire backdoor is still out there. Particularly in Ubuntu. https://github.com/carmaa/inception https://github.com/carmaa/inception
- c0achmcguirk 13y agoThis article is pretty interesting: http://www.privacylover.com/encryption/analysis-is-there-a-backdoor-in-truecrypt-is-truecrypt-a-cia-honeypot/ http://www.privacylover.com/encryption/analysis-is-there-a-b... It claims TrueCrypt is a CIA honeypot.
- eruditely 13y agoI laugh at 'white hat' prosecution based culture, there is a serious lack of ethics in the computer security profession.
- EvanAnderson 13y agoThe reference to the names "Detective Stu Pitt" and "Detective Laughlin Foo" on the last page has me wondering about this. They both really, really sound like joke names. The similarity to the presenter's name (first slide) from the real North Dakota State Attorney's Association (NDSAA) presentation (http://www.ndsaa.org/Computer_Forensics_for_Prosecutors.pdf http://www.ndsaa.org/Computer_Forensics_for_Prosecutors.pdf) also seems suspicious. It has the look that somebody took the real NDSAA presentation, tweaked it up, and released it as a hoax. Edit: Here's a site that seems to be hosting the same PDF as part of an article dated 1 April 2013: http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=770 http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=770
- emhs 13y agoI dug a little further. Not only is there "Detective Stu Pitt", there's also "Laughlin Foo" for the next day's presentation, and the link at the bottom is for the North Dakota State Attorney's Association, though the only state mentioned (and whose seal is used) is Oregon. This is phony.
- thejosh 13y agotook less than an hour for the hoax to be revealed.. :)
- NDizzle 13y agoI was going to add that you can link directly to the page like this: http://cryptome.org/2013/09/computer-forensics-2013.pdf#page=15 http://cryptome.org/2013/09/computer-forensics-2013.pdf#page... Works in FF and Chrome in-browser readers. Then I realized you should really skim every single page, rather than going straight to 15.
- Karunamon 13y agoSo there's a few possible ways to interpret this.. * There is an actual hereto-unknown flaw in TrueCrypt's algorithms or implementations of algorithms that can be exploited. * They are referring to the only known attack, wherein keys can be recovered from RAM if the volume isn't unmounted correctly. * This is FUD designed to push people away from less-breakable encryption and onto software which actually /does/ have backdoors. * This is a hoax (pay special attention to the detective's names on the slide) I'm not sure what to make of it.
- noname999_666 13y agoAnybody ever heard of the "zSearch" software mentioned in the pdf? After some more digging, found this document: http://www.ndsaa.org/Computer_Forensics_for_Prosecutors.pdf http://www.ndsaa.org/Computer_Forensics_for_Prosecutors.pdf Which states: Free product by SA Eric Zimmerman Random Access Memory Analysis: * FBI - Salt Lake City, UT * Distribution - eric[at]feeble-industries.com * Plug-in live triage via USB * Virtualization, encryption, mass storage, P2P, Gigatribe, picture & video preview, password gathering, and MORE! Looks LE agents can request a copy by registering for the guy's phpbb form here (judging by the registration terms, it's not open to the public): https://feeble-industries.com/forums/ucp.php?mode=register https://feeble-industries.com/forums/ucp.php?mode=register
- XEKEP 13y agoThere is more regarding zSearch: "... computer search tool called osTriage/zSEARCH. The search tool allows investigators to find child pornography without damaging the forensic integrity of a computer." http://attorneygeneral.utah.gov/PR_122011.html http://attorneygeneral.utah.gov/PR_122011.html
- necubi 13y agoAre we all just going to take this seriously? It's pretty obviously a fake. Just look at the names at the end. Detective Laughlin Foo? Stu Pitt? Neither of which, incidentally, return anything in google aside from this presentation. There's also a clear divergence in style on the backdoor slides, and it reads like a parody. But the most obvious problem: if the NSA or whoever had a backdoor to truecrypt and Android and iOS, they would not send that information to a local DA office to be leaked. Please don't set aside critical thinking just because something confirms your biases.
- tylerkahn 13y agoIncessantly cynical distrust of the government is the new blind patriotism.
- BetterLateThan 13y agoIt is impossible to overmistrust the State. If you could imagine the lows they will go to, you'd be working for them by now.
- Houshalter 13y agoIs it really impossible? Do you think there is literally really no limit to what they can do or what they will do?
- glimmung 13y agoNo, but they operate at a scale beyond our comprehension, and use reasoning beyond our comprehension (or mine, anyway!), so it's not too clever to imagine that we can anticipate their limits...
- DannyBee 13y agoIf you use the link to the last year's presentation on the last page, and download it, you can see last year's presentation was made by "micah smith" (who apparently has become "michael smith" this year). The entire presentation is clearly a copy of the previous year presentation, with some words changed by some moron with an agenda whose understanding of criminal procedure came from watching too many law and order episodes.
- pekk 13y agoNot everything that looks like it comes from the government really does.
- throwaeayq 13y agohttps://github.com/bwalex/tc-play https://github.com/bwalex/tc-play this guy probably knows a thing or two about if it's safe