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Wozniak Says `Lot of Things Wrong’ With Jobs Movie [video]
- rch 13y agoLink needs a [video] warning or something.
- ams6110 13y agoYeah this is a good idea. Just like the [pdf] indicator. I generally don't watch video pieces and get mildly annoyed when there's no other clue.
- msh 13y agois anyone surprised?
- npsimons 13y agoSome would argue that one of the biggest things wrong is that this movie exists at all, and there's not one for people who had a much bigger influence on the world: On the one hand, I can imagine where the computing world would be without the work that Jobs did and the people he inspired: probably a bit less shiny, a bit more beige, a bit more square. Deep inside, though, our devices would still work the same way and do the same things. On the other hand, I literally can't imagine where the computing world would be without the work that Ritchie did and the people he inspired. By the mid 80s, Ritchie's influence had taken over, and even back then very little remained of the pre-Ritchie world. Taken from https://plus.google.com/112218872649456413744/posts/dfydM2Cnepe https://plus.google.com/112218872649456413744/posts/dfydM2Cn...
- mwfunk 13y agoThat's just geek one-upsmanship, it's not commentary. Geek A says that he really admires Geek Icon A. Geek B denigrates Geek A by telling him that Geek Icon A didn't really do anything, that he was just standing on the shoulders of the slightly more obscure but infinitely more talented Geek Icon B. This makes Geek B sound smart and informed, or at least it it makes Geek B feel smart and informed and better the Geek A. Geek C comes along and tells Geek B that he's clueless, because Geek Icon B was just a poseur who spent his career harvesting the intellectual fields that had been plowed and sown by the even more obscure Geek Icon C. And so on, ad infinitum. I halfway expect someone else to stumble on that thread and inform the author that he's an idiot because he doesn't realize that Dennis Ritchie is no more than a pimple on John McCarthy's back (not my opinion, just the sort of binary thinking and argumentation that I've observed in these types of threads). It's also an example of geek self-importance: the idea that the only thing that matters is writing code. It reduces the value of anyone involved in the creation of a piece of hardware or software who wasn't writing code or soldering stuff to nil. People say this stuff to feel better about themselves at the expense of other people that they feel get too much credit. There's some truth to it, of course, but it's rarely expressed as a gray area. It usually comes in the form of, "hey, you know that guy who everyone thinks did everything? Really, he did NOTHING! Nothing at all. This other guy that most people never heard of did EVERYTHING." Which is just as intellectually dishonest as the idea that the first guy did everything.
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- jared314 13y agoPeople had similar things to say about The Social Network. It was wrong about history, but it was also a good movie on its own. We will see if "Jobs", as a movie, can stand on its own.
- FaceKicker 13y agoFor what it's worth, The Social Network as a movie was very well-received by critics [1]. Jobs, not so much [2]. [1] http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the-social-network/ http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/the-social-network/ [2] http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/jobs/ http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/jobs/
- baby 13y agoThe trailer for the social network was amazing and people were anticipating the movie. I don't think anyone wanted to watch Jobs after seeing the trailer.
- dsuth 13y agoOften, anticipation is what ruins a movie. All of the best movies I've seen (The Matrix, Fifth Element spring to mind) had such obtuse trailers that I had no idea what was going on before I got in there.
- baby 13y agoyup. But I'm more talking about judging a movie from its Trailer. I can often have a good intuition about the movie just from the Trailer.
- kazagistar 13y agoHoly shit, "not so much" is putting it really lightly.
- shubb 13y agoBut a movie isn't just a movie. Every movie has a narrative that makes a point, and that makes it valuable. If what we are hoping to learn from 'Jobs' or The Social Network is "How did this guy do it? What personal qualities can I emulate, what situations can I apply the same approach in", then it is only valuable if it is accurate. After all, if the narrative is something the writer more or less made up (i.e. he's missed out the bit where Jobs goes into the wilderness and comes back another person), then what the movie teaches us is coming from the writers head. The writer didn't build a leading company, so I am not really interested in what he thinks about how to do it.
- hayksaakian 13y agoFor a better film concerning the same topic, try pirates of silicon valley. Its a bit old, but quite good.
- MBCook 13y agoI'm hoping Sorkin's movie is better. We'll see.
- Zigurd 13y agoThere is a very good chance it will be better, but Sorkin had to take considerable liberties to make The Social Network work as a movie. I really liked it because it captured and conveyed the spirit of things people find hard to understand. But you can't do that and be a historically accurate document. And despite Sorkin being a genius, I know several people who thought sitting through The Social Network was torture.
- ceejayoz 13y agoWoz is apparently consulting for Sorkin's version, so I'd take that as a fairly good sign.
- narrator 13y agoI went out and saw Pirates of Silicon Valley after Bill Gates said in his Reddit IAMA that his portrayal was more or less accurate.
- capkutay 13y agoI saw pirates of silicon valley a few years ago. I'd say that was the only movie to really get me excited about being in tech/silicon valley. The Social Network didn't even have close to the same effect for me.
- jfb 13y agoI GOT THE LOOT, STEVE!
- louthy 13y agoSlightly OT: Pirates of Silicon Valley for the UK: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIcAyFVK0gE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIcAyFVK0gE
- MBCook 13y agoThe woman doing the interview really seems to do a poor job. She seems to let Wozniak get about 80-90% into statements and then speedily talk over him to move onto the next point. It doesn't sound like she's actually listening to his answers, just going down her checklist. At one point he explains why he liked Sorkin's approach better than Kutcher's, then she asked a later question as if he had never said that. It's kind of sad. Woz mentioned numerous times that the problem was showing the pre-firing Jobs behaving and being treated more like he was after having matured, but the interviewer just didn't get it. She also asked quite a few questions designed in a "X vs. Y, choose now!" style, trying to get a soundbite or setup a narrative (Woz wisely wouldn't fall for it). Between that and the interrupting, it was actually kind of hard to listen to. Missed opportunities, I guess.
- asgard1024 13y agoTrue, but the interview was still very interesting, I enjoyed it.
- onli 13y agoAbsolutely disagree. In my opinion, she does a good job in guiding Wozniak through the interview while still being respectful. Yes, it is obvious that she wanted to have some specific questions answered, but that is nothing bad, it prevents people from rambling and makes the interview interesting. And it wasn't my impression that she interrupted mid-sentence or even just often. How do you come to the conclusion that she doesn't get his point? Didn't she even react to that with the "is he too visionary in the movie" question line?
- MBCook 13y agoWoz definitely need to be guided, there were some times it was appropriate. He's clearly the kind of person who could talk about any question for 15 minutes. I've seen interviewers do a good job without sounding rushed and forced, that was what grabbed me. I hear interviews on The Daily Show, NPR, local talk shows, even entertainment shows where the host was part of the interview. Where they worked with the subject. I have heard some very hostile interviews with people in politics where the host is clearly pissed at the question dodging and double talk. But they have some sort of respect for the person they're talking to, they at least sound like they are trying to talk to the person. This sounded hollow, like she was just trying to get through it so she could get on to the next segment... just routine 'interview X for 5 minutes'. She knew who he was, and it's not like she was hostile. > How do you come to the conclusion that she doesn't get his point? Maybe she did. But it didn't seem to influence the questions she asked. I felt like they could have taped both sides of the interview separately and then just spliced it together. There were almost no follow-up questions, it sounded like she could have ended every part with "Thank you, next question." She asked him some base question and he explained the difference between Sorkin's and Kutcher's approaches. Ten minutes later she asked that very question, without even acknowledging that she already had the answer. Instead of "You touched on the difference in Sorkin's style, could you tell us more..." it was "I hear your working with Sorkin. How did that compare." It gave the impression she wasn't really paying attention to her own interview. My impression was the whole thing was set out before it started. She had her angle, and she just kept trying to get there. To get him to trash someone, to say the movie was a travesty, to bait him with "is Apple doomed?" again, or to just finish it up and get onto the next segment. No engagement, no feeling, no heart... just hollowness and a missed opportunity.
- k-mcgrady 13y agoWas this movie meant to be a documentary? I was under the impression it was supposed to be more like The Social Network. Some facts but mainly just entertainment. The Social Network may not be factually accurate but I enjoyed it and watched it again. I'm guessing this will be similar.
- dirkgently 13y agoIf it was mainly for entertainment, they should have called it Blow Jobs, you know. It would have been true to their intent (entertainment), and more accurate to the content of the movie.
- k-mcgrady 13y agoIf you want the facts read Walter Isaacson's biography of Steve Jobs. >> "It would have been true to their intent (entertainment)" OF COURSE their intent is entertainment! It's a movie!
- hrktb 13y agoOr not as it seems. Walter Isaacson was heavily criticized as being way too light and inaccurate (disclaimer: didn't read). 'Infinite loop' seems a better entry point.
- dsuth 13y agoYeah, the Isaacson book is almost unreadable. Obviously rushed to coincide as closely as possible with his death, and just not a good book by any standard. The lack of even cursory editing is telling.
- dirkgently 13y agoTrue. It's a good excuse, but still doesn't fly in my books. I do understand that fact based movies need to introduce some drama that requires some nips here and some tucks there, but not to the extent that Wozniak has claimed. And he being there in person has some weight to what he says. Jobs worship was already out of control during his second stint, with success of iproducts, but to revise the history to such an extent that it takes credit away from pretty much everybody who worked towards making Apple a successful company is not entertainment.
- jamesjguthrie 13y agoI still really want to see it. I've just watched all the Steve Jobs documentaries on Netflix and I love Pirates of Silicon Valley. Can't find details of when or if it's coming to the UK...
- racl101 13y agoThe only good thing about 'Jobs' is to highlight what a wonderful movie Pirates of Silicon Valley was.
- rickdale 13y agoI have the understanding that this movie was made in Hollywood, and therefore, Steve Wozniak complaining about the accuracy of the movie is irrelevant. Steve's main point is that the movie doesn't accurately portray Jobs in the early days and that he evolved into the character Ashton Kutcher plays. It's Hollywood, and its different perspectives. I think usually movies are 'based on a true story' not exactly a true story. Woz has his own fame, so I don't see this as a jealous rant, but I do see it as a guy waving his arms screaming to the public "HEY HEY, I AM STILL HERE! PAY ATTENTION TO ME!" EDIT ---- Yeah down vote me, my bet is you didn't watch the whole video.
- talmir 13y ago"but I do see it as a guy waving his arms screaming to the public "HEY HEY, I AM STILL HERE! PAY ATTENTION TO ME!"" I bet ya dollars to doughnuts that Woz did not contact the media first. His phone probably didnt stop for days with media ringing him up trying to goad something out of him.
- mung 13y agoI don't really fits in with everything we seem to know about Woz. Personally I'm not impressed with the way Hollywood changes history, especially recent history. For many, Hollywood's version becomes the official version. PS, I can't downvote and seriously dislike drive-by downvoters. Or people that downvote because they disagree. Or most downvoting in general really...
- subdane 13y agoI love Woz's honesty. I actually think the issues he brings up would have made for a better film - because they illuminate all the ways Jobs failed early in his career... and ultimately learned from his failures to realize the success of his later iYears. Real conflict and real resolution. But that's a different film, it sounds like. (The one I wish they'd made).
- dirkgently 13y agoIf we wait long enough, we will also find out that Steve Jobs invented practically everything around us - the bits, the bytes, the electricity, atoms and molecules. Hack, he was the first fish out of the water that gave raise to the man kind millions of years later. All Hail the King Jobs.
- hkmurakami 13y agohe did invent the personal computer right? ... right? ;)
- jacquesm 13y agosorry. http://www.murple.net/gallery/v/what/informationage/img_0030.jpg.html http://www.murple.net/gallery/v/what/informationage/img_0030...
- saraid216 13y ago> Hack 1) I like this typo. 2) I can't imagine how you made it. Dvorak keyboard?
- KC8ZKF 13y agoTwo bucks says #2 was auto-correct. Hack is a proper English word, heck is not.
- orblivion 13y agoA is in the same position, Dvorak or qwerty.
- Draco6slayer 13y agoTha a is raelly closa to tha e on tha dvorek kayboerd, end it mekas for e mora common misteka. ;)
- Dewie 13y agoMaybe popular history will remember him as the Thomas Edison of computers.
- timkeller 13y agoA wasted opportunity to properly interview a great man. There are a few people that you interview with reverence: Woz is one of them.
- MikeCapone 13y agoPersonally, I think 'reverence' makes interviews worse, not better.
- juandopazo 13y agoFor comparison here's what he had to say about "Pirates of Silicon Valley" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lx9JsSTklI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lx9JsSTklI
- CamperBob2 13y agoPlease don't link directly to auto-playing video pages. At least not until browser vendors get their acts together and indicate which tabs are generating sound. (No, I'm not interested in a long list of excuses as to why that's hard to do.)
- christianmann 13y agoThe solution I employ is Click2Plugin, native to Chrome and an extension to Firefox (and Safari?). I have it enabled on everything but Youtube.
- dubcanada 13y agoUpgrade to chrome canary. It has that feature. And what does that have to do with linking to a auto playing video? Do you automatically switch tabs after loading it and then get confused which tab has your video?
- CamperBob2 13y agoUpgrade to chrome canary. It has that feature. Yeah, I've been meaning to try that Chrome feature out. I'm still on FF22 at the moment. Do you automatically switch tabs after loading it and then get confused which tab has your video? Typically I'll middle-click links to open them in separate tabs without switching to them, then read the tabs later when I have time, sometimes even the next day. So I end up faced with a row of dozens of tabs, one of which is making unsolicited racket.
- danso 13y agoWhat really burns me is how the "Jobs" people treated his criticism as being motivated out of money. From Ashton Kutcher: http://blogs.computerworld.com/mac-os-x/22659/jobs-ashton-kutcher-hits-back-woz http://blogs.computerworld.com/mac-os-x/22659/jobs-ashton-ku... > "Woz is being paid by another company to support a different Steve Jobs film. It's personal for him, but it's also business. We have to keep that in mind." Seriously? Woz is the guy who gave his Apple stock shares to co-workers he felt were slighted in the IPO. Hello, he's the guy who wanted to give his groundbreaking engineering behind the Apple away for free. Woz is an engineering legend...but if there were a Hall of Fame for generosity and integrity, he'd be in there too. Shame on the "Jobs" people and it's great to see the lukewarm/negative reviews roll in for their shit sandwich of a biopic.
- thezilch 13y agoKutcher is being paid by another company to support his Steve Jobs film. It's personal for him, but it's also business. We have to keep that in mind.
- gsands 13y agoShe lets him talk more than most interviewers I've seen. Which is great because I could listen to a guy like Woz talk all day.
- npguy 13y agoThe movie kind of confirms the fact that steve jobs actually lived for 150 years. http://fakevalley.com/steve-jobs-actually-lived-for-150-years/ http://fakevalley.com/steve-jobs-actually-lived-for-150-year...
- taigeair 13y agoDamn. Wozniak should be a movie critic. I'd watch.
- zw123456 13y agoI know this is going to sound petty, but I just think Ashton Kutcher was a bad choice. He is too dumb to play Jobs. I would go for someone with more intellect, perhaps Daniel Day-Lewis, somebody edgey, Peter Fonda, Duston Hoffman, I dunno, it is not that I do not like Kutcher, it just seems like he is too dumb to play Jobs. Is it just me?
- dchuk 13y agoKutcher is actually a smart guy he just got typecasted as an idiot character for most of his career
- saalweachter 13y agoIt's called "acting". If you can only pretend to be who you actually are, you are not really an "actor".
- sethbannon 13y agoEvery time I see a Woz interview I'm struck by what a genuinely good guy he seems to be.
- welly 13y agoAgreed. He doesn't have any pretensions and he does seem absolutely genuine.
- JacobSkyler 13y agoI love that he can talk so comfortably about the strengths and weaknesses of himself and others. A lot of people are uncomfortable talking plainly about their own importance or about other people's failings. And then you get the odd megalomaniac who's the opposite. It's refreshing to see someone who's comfortable talking about people honestly.
- evli 13y agoI feel sorry for woz. The interviewer seems she had no clue what she was talking about.
- VonGuard 13y agoIn the heady days of my youth in the early 90's I was foolishly of the opinion that Apple would one day rule the world, and that Steve Jobs would be seen as some sort of Christ figure. I kinda looked up to him in that fashion, at the time, even before he'd come back to Apple after Next. Of course, when I actually became an adult, I realized the error of my ways, switched to Linux,and over time my admiration only grew for Woz. I once appeared in a reenactment of a Jobs/Woz story on TV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEuJMPBZJ7c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEuJMPBZJ7c . It was a cheesey TV reenactment, and it really doesn't matter which one of the two Steve's I was playing, versus which one was portrayed by my child-hood friend, Travis. But during the filming, I did get to handle a Woz Blue Box, and an Apple I board. It was like touching a Rembrandt, or a Van Gogh. At the time, I pretended to be Jobs. These days, I say I played Woz. Woz, to put it bluntly, is the awesomest hacker/engineer, ever. He's just a freakin' god! Everything he's ever done has been 10% pure hacker ethos. The early Apple I's came with a complete explanation of how they were laid out, hardware-wise. The manual was a work of pure joy. You don't get technical writing like that, ever. Nothing was hidden. http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/Apple/Apple.AppleI.1976.102646518.pdf http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/Apple/Appl... If you like that, ever head of the CL 9? Woz, after leaving Apple due to surviving a freakin' plane crash, decided he wanted to fix the then common remote control. The CL9 Core remote control was a hacker's dream device. You could program it to emit whatever IR signals you wanted, and it came with a manual explaining as much. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CL_9 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CL_9 Jobs, on the other hand, was a seriously driven guy. An entrepreneur's entrepreneur. Take that for what you will, the good and the bad. I've always taken it to mean he was good at spotting an opportunity and exploiting it. I, for one, will always worship the engineer, first.
- derefr 13y agoRather than picking one over the other, I would say that it would have been best if Jobs had had a little more Woz in him (to appreciate the tech more), Woz had had a little more Jobs (to sell himself more), and they had continued to work together. Apple would be an even bigger player than it is today, I think.
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- esusatyo 13y agoWhat is wrong with the interviewer? Towards the end she kept pushing Woz to say that Apple is in decline. Even after Woz repeatedly said that he didn't believe so. Is this the view of the general public? That Apple is doomed if they don't release iWatch or whatever that's bigger than the iPhone/iPad?
- julespitt 13y agoNot the general public, but I listen to Bloomberg financial radio a lot, and know-nothing finance types definitely believe that Apple needs another product - any product - immediately. On the other side, different analysts say both the watch market and the TV market are too small to matter, so Apple is also doomed if they do. That the MP3 player, smartphone and tablet markets were also "too small" before Apple released their products hasn't entered their mind.
- baby 13y agohow is the watch market "too small"? Everybody owns a watch. Also if you go out, you'll always see plenty of watch stores, and watch advertisements.
- vidarh 13y agoFirstly, I see fewer people with watches these days, as a watch is basically a fashion statement these days. Secondly, the portion of that market that buy "techie" phones as opposed to what's effectively a variation of a bracelet is vanishingly small, so the size of the overall watch market is irrelevant.
- cruise02 13y agoThere should be an update in a few weeks that fixes all the problems with the film.
- purephase 13y agoAnyone else think that all this negative press is on purpose? I mean, really. They've taken one of the most iconic men of this nascent century and apparently slapped together a movie about him. It's not like there is not considerable source material to work with (even without Isaacson's book if you're concerned about the "other" movie). It just feels like someone has asked the press to deliberately drum up negative opinions specifically in regards to the true validity of the movie (not, you know, overall quality) and it will likely drive people out in droves.
- Uchikoma 13y agoCan we stop this Wozniak worshiping every time there is a link to something this guy said?
- Uchikoma 13y ago-2? Wozniak worshippers, you can do better in punishing an heretic!
- waylonrobert 13y agoNot really surprised by the inaccuracies. Memories fade over time and are often replaced my an amalgamation of memory fragments and what makes sense.