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Yes, it does debunk it. Wage has a specific meaning. If women are taking a different job, obviously they are earning a different wage, that is in no way a "wa

Yes, it does debunk it. Wage has a specific meaning. If women are taking a different job, obviously they are earning a different wage, that is in no way a "wage gap". Calling someone working 80% of the hours and earning 80% of the pay a "wage gap" is completely absurd. >Also, men are more common the higher in company/corporate structures you go They are also more common the lower you go. Men are more common at both extremes, and ignoring the bottom part is a really common fallacy used to push a particular agenda.

king_jester 13y ago
This seems like splitting hairs. There is wage disparity between men and women in general and there are reasons for that difference. Ultimately those reasons need to be discussed and addressed as it doesn't serve society to have so many of its members pigeonholed into low wage work (this extends beyond gender, of course)
- papsosouid 13y ago
  Not at all. We have constant, deliberate deception being used to influence policy and law. People overwhelmingly believe the lie that women get paid less for the same work, that would be a wage gap. Policy decisions are made based on that lie. Politicians now repeat that lie. This is a problem, and needs to be addressed. Pointing out the reality is how I am doing my part to try to address this problem. It is not splitting hairs.
  - king_jester 13y ago
    Almost every analysis I've ever read about the wage gap went beyond the pay difference to look at domestic work, child care, types of work available to men and women, number of men/women in a kind of work, etc. > People overwhelmingly believe the lie that women get paid less for the same work, that would be a wage gap. Policy decisions are made based on that lie. Politicians now repeat that lie. This is a problem, and needs to be addressed. Wouldn't addressing the lie include an acknowledgement of wage disparity outside of 'different pay for the same work'? Often I see this issue framed in terms of comparable work and work loads due to the difference in types of jobs and representation in certain fields.
    - papsosouid 13y ago
      >Almost every analysis I've ever read about the wage gap went beyond the pay difference I find those to be in the minority myself. And those are of course never presented by feminist proponents of the wage gap myth, as those demonstrate that it is a myth. >Wouldn't addressing the lie include an acknowledgement of wage disparity It isn't wage disparity, that is the point. It is job disparity. If you want to make a case that women aren't able to get the jobs they want due to sexism, feel free to do so. But don't expect me to do it for you simply because you made a totally unrelated claim.
  - quinnchr 13y ago
    Well call it what you will, there is obviously some sort of gap. It seems a bit disingenuous to me to point out that a wage gap doesn't exist because women are payed the same as men but on average work lower paying jobs, or take time out for children. Those things should make you question why women not men are expected to take time out of their career to raise children, why women on average end up in lower paying jobs. Ultimately the effect is gap in average income between men and women. So yes you sort of are splitting hairs, while ignoring real systemic issues that affect everyone, not just women.
    - papsosouid 13y ago
      >Those things should make you question why women not men are expected to take time out of their career to raise children, why women on average end up in lower paying jobs. No, those things should make the feminists spouting this nonsense ask those questions. Instead, the continue to spew deliberately misleading nonsense, knowing that people are sympathetic to "women get paid less for the same work", but are much less sympathetic to "women choose to work fewer hours".
      - quinnchr 13y ago
        So on what information do you base the assumption that women choose to work fewer hours? And are you denying that there is in fact an income gap for women? Minorities also have an income gap and statistically speaking work fewer hours. Are you saying that's a choice too?
        papsosouid 13y ago
        Why are you asking me to make your argument for you? If you want to take a position on job choices and availability go right ahead, you don't need me to do it for you.
        quinnchr 13y ago
        I'm asking you to clarify your position. You seem to acknowledge that an income gap exists for women. You also asserted that it was because they choose to work less. I'd like to know if there's anything to back up your assertions other than your opinion. Does you opinion hold for other groups that have an income gap and on average work less? If so can you see how that would be problematic?

king_jester 13y ago

This seems like splitting hairs. There is wage disparity between men and women in general and there are reasons for that difference. Ultimately those reasons need to be discussed and addressed as it doesn't serve society to have so many of its members pigeonholed into low wage work (this extends beyond gender, of course)

papsosouid 13y ago
Not at all. We have constant, deliberate deception being used to influence policy and law. People overwhelmingly believe the lie that women get paid less for the same work, that would be a wage gap. Policy decisions are made based on that lie. Politicians now repeat that lie. This is a problem, and needs to be addressed. Pointing out the reality is how I am doing my part to try to address this problem. It is not splitting hairs.
- king_jester 13y ago
  Almost every analysis I've ever read about the wage gap went beyond the pay difference to look at domestic work, child care, types of work available to men and women, number of men/women in a kind of work, etc. > People overwhelmingly believe the lie that women get paid less for the same work, that would be a wage gap. Policy decisions are made based on that lie. Politicians now repeat that lie. This is a problem, and needs to be addressed. Wouldn't addressing the lie include an acknowledgement of wage disparity outside of 'different pay for the same work'? Often I see this issue framed in terms of comparable work and work loads due to the difference in types of jobs and representation in certain fields.
  - papsosouid 13y ago
    >Almost every analysis I've ever read about the wage gap went beyond the pay difference I find those to be in the minority myself. And those are of course never presented by feminist proponents of the wage gap myth, as those demonstrate that it is a myth. >Wouldn't addressing the lie include an acknowledgement of wage disparity It isn't wage disparity, that is the point. It is job disparity. If you want to make a case that women aren't able to get the jobs they want due to sexism, feel free to do so. But don't expect me to do it for you simply because you made a totally unrelated claim.
- quinnchr 13y ago
  Well call it what you will, there is obviously some sort of gap. It seems a bit disingenuous to me to point out that a wage gap doesn't exist because women are payed the same as men but on average work lower paying jobs, or take time out for children. Those things should make you question why women not men are expected to take time out of their career to raise children, why women on average end up in lower paying jobs. Ultimately the effect is gap in average income between men and women. So yes you sort of are splitting hairs, while ignoring real systemic issues that affect everyone, not just women.
  - papsosouid 13y ago
    >Those things should make you question why women not men are expected to take time out of their career to raise children, why women on average end up in lower paying jobs. No, those things should make the feminists spouting this nonsense ask those questions. Instead, the continue to spew deliberately misleading nonsense, knowing that people are sympathetic to "women get paid less for the same work", but are much less sympathetic to "women choose to work fewer hours".
    - quinnchr 13y ago
      So on what information do you base the assumption that women choose to work fewer hours? And are you denying that there is in fact an income gap for women? Minorities also have an income gap and statistically speaking work fewer hours. Are you saying that's a choice too?
      - papsosouid 13y ago
        Why are you asking me to make your argument for you? If you want to take a position on job choices and availability go right ahead, you don't need me to do it for you.
        quinnchr 13y ago
        I'm asking you to clarify your position. You seem to acknowledge that an income gap exists for women. You also asserted that it was because they choose to work less. I'd like to know if there's anything to back up your assertions other than your opinion. Does you opinion hold for other groups that have an income gap and on average work less? If so can you see how that would be problematic?