5 ms·

How patio11 redesigned my landing page in front of a live studio audience

80 points by SMrF 13y ago

tocomment 13y ago
Looks good but I wasn't sure what was being "launched". Is it software or the book?
- SMrF 13y ago
  Just a book. Software soon. I wanted to start with something small that I could do relatively quickly, so I'm writing a book. Then I will convert readers of my book into customers for my software.
zrail 13y ago
This is very useful information for my own project, thanks. BaconBizConf sounds like a really fun conference too.
- SMrF 13y ago
  Awesome. I'm glad it helped. BaconBizConf was awesome, I highly recommend it for bootstrappers.
SeanDav 13y ago
The new is definitely an improvement, but both load fairly slowly - I would try improve this next, or at least allow staged loading so visitors have something to start looking at quickly while the rest loads.
- SMrF 13y ago
  This is surprising. It's just HTML on S3 with cloudflare in front. Maybe Typekit is slowing it down...
  - tocomment 13y ago
    Probably a dumb question, what is the benefit from using Cloudflare? If I naively set up a page like this I would have just done S3 directly, right?
    - general_failure 13y ago
      cloudfare will cache your content in much much more locations across the globe unlike plain s3. (cloudfront from amazon does the same thing)
  - SeanDav 13y ago
    It may just be my own setup but to me it seemed slower to load than many other sites I visit.
  - beznogim 13y ago
    Loads fine for me even on mobile, but then I get http://i.imgur.com/JpxvAOz.jpg http://i.imgur.com/JpxvAOz.jpg when I try to sign up (iOS, Safari).
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
- citizens 13y ago
  For what it's worth it loads quickly for me (1/3 second). East coast US.
napoleoncomplex 13y ago
Do you have any stats from your analytics you could share? It would be great to see the business side effect.
- SMrF 13y ago
  Not yet. I have some posts in the works for web designers so I'll see how they convert compared to the old page. I'm ignoring all stats while this article is on HN. This isn't exactly the target audience for my book.
- notahacker 13y ago
  Would be interesting to see the current version tested against one without all the "Photoshop bashing" too. I'm not sure if that was a suggestion from the talk or another idea you wanted to try, but I feel it would be far more effective if you condensed the many long bullet points down to "Sick of static Photoshop mockups that don't respond like real websites? Feel like you're doing everything twice?" (Maybe the bullet points belong in a blog or FAQ section with the title: "why not just use Photoshop?") TBH I actually like your first landing page copy (other than it missing an above-the-fold "what's in this book" statement) and the second one also feels like a work in progress, so it'd be interesting to see how they both perform.
thetrumanshow 13y ago
Sean Fioritto was the first person I met at BaconBizConf while waiting outside the doors on morning #1. Confident, smart, and altogether friendly guy. I was impressed the level of demonstrated grit he showed when he volunteered his site for a teardown. He was over there just scratching notes away while they punished him. We could all use that kind of grit. More of us would launch great products if we did. Pat Pohler had a teardown too. He should share his lessons learned as well... {Pat Signal}
- SMrF 13y ago
  Thanks Barry. It was nice to meet you there. It was such a great conference, I learned so much and met so many great, like-minded folks.
- ahoyhere 13y ago
  It's so weird for me to hear from people who were at BaconBizConf and thought the teardowns were "brutal" or "punishing." None of us panelists ever said "This is terrible" or anything of that sort, or insulted anyone/anything, or discouraged any of the volunteers, etc. We said "This doesn't work" "That won't work" "That's weak" etc.… and then gave lots of supportive suggestions to make it better. The worst possible thing anyone said is when Patrick said [paraphrasing] "Please don't take this personally, but if your target market is designers, you need to have more of a… design." Genuinely asking "Why would I be interested in this?" is not only not brutal, it's not even a criticism. I guess more people need to experience actual brutal criticism in order to see how our teardown was anything but!
  - thetrumanshow 13y ago
    I guess I did make this overblown using those terms. And yes, when is Patrick ever 'punishing'? Heh. Then again, there's something to be said for being willing to be scrutinized by your heroes. Therein lies my admiration for Sean.
    - ahoyhere 13y ago
      This is true. I have a huge amount of respect for people who: A. Ask for feedback. B. Publicly! C. Act on the feedback. That's why Sean is awesome :) He did a GREAT job incorporating our feedback into something that's 10x better than before.
mbesto 13y ago
This is seriously good stuff. Great write-up and sounds like it was a good conf.
simonswords82 13y ago
Great work, thanks for sharing. I'd love to have Amy and Patrick critique my site - I reckon I'll head to BaconBizConf when it's next on.
thenomad 13y ago
All looks very sensible, but I'd be interested to see a split-test. You never know what will or won't convert...
- SMrF 13y ago
  The funny thing is I agree, but I don't think I'll do it. The old version is just so bad I feel like I'd be throwing away money. I'm not internet famous so traffic is hard for me to come by. Can I justify a split test? So the question becomes do I trust the experts? I do. Therefore this landing page is my new baseline -- I'll split test from here.
  - thenomad 13y ago
    Given that it's a lead gen page, you could get some solid split-test data off $100 or so of spend on the advertising platform of your choice. However, I don't know if that's something you could afford. If it is, I'd definitely recommend it, but I can certainly see why you'd be inclined to trust the experts. FWIW, looking over the "after" page myself, I'd agree that it's a much more solid longish-form sales page. You'll probably be fine using that as your baseline!
oneye 13y ago
Thank you for sharing this. I've been working and listening hard and anything that clears up conversion tactics (especially when just handed to me) is gold. Cheers.
cocoflunchy 13y ago
I haven't read the article yet, but clicking on the before/after links got me to say: "Aha, it's a book!" in the first second after opening the 2nd link. So even if it's only this (which I'm sure it's not), huge improvement in the clarity of the message. Do you have data on the conversion rates before/after redesigning the landing page?
- SMrF 13y ago
  I only have before data right now, and not a lot. I'll be sure to post data for the new landing page, just as soon as I get some.
biot 13y ago
Up and Down the Ladder of Abstraction: http://worrydream.com/#!2/LadderOfAbstraction http://worrydream.com/#!2/LadderOfAbstraction This should be required reading for every developer. While the redesign looks better, I'm somewhat turned off because it follows the same design strategies as used by low-quality info products: * Cheesy book shot. At least it's not a fake "book generator" box. If this will be delivered as a PDF, why not use the Acrobat logo below a thumbnail preview of the actual cover/first page? To me, seeing real content lends credibility. * Thin column of text with bullet points. * Periodic bolded keywords. * The only things it's missing are a "P.S." section and a breakdown of the cost savings over the alternatives. I have no doubt that the reason these things are standard is that they work. However, for me the site has the same look and feel I've seen in many low-quality info product kind of sites. As a result, I'm immediately more skeptical than I otherwise would be.
- Vitaly 13y ago
  well, then I guess you won't be a customer. Guess what.. this doesn't matter, the loss is probably all yours (if the actual content is something you can benefit from). Don't forget, this book is being written to get profit and recognition (I think ;) and loosing a couple of "this looks too cheap for me" dudes is an OK price to pay to significantly increase the readership. And I'm pretty sure patio11 and brennan know quite a bit about this. So, so long as "it works" I think he's going in the right direction.
  - biot 13y ago
    > well, then I guess you won't be a customer. Guess what.. this > doesn't matter, the loss is probably all yours Was this meant to be snarky, or am I misreading it? I completely agree, and it seems like you're arguing against a position I never took. > ... is an OK price to pay to significantly increase the readership As you no doubt noticed, I said these design decisions were likely made because they work. You are agreeing with my statement. > And I'm pretty sure patio11 and brennan know quite a bit about this. Did I claim otherwise? I shared the reasons why I had somewhat of a negative initial impression of the site. My impressions have nothing to do with the experience or credentials of those who were involved with the redesign.

80 points by SMrF 13y ago

tocomment 13y ago

Looks good but I wasn't sure what was being "launched". Is it software or the book?

SMrF 13y ago
Just a book. Software soon. I wanted to start with something small that I could do relatively quickly, so I'm writing a book. Then I will convert readers of my book into customers for my software.

zrail 13y ago

This is very useful information for my own project, thanks. BaconBizConf sounds like a really fun conference too.

SMrF 13y ago
Awesome. I'm glad it helped. BaconBizConf was awesome, I highly recommend it for bootstrappers.

SeanDav 13y ago

The new is definitely an improvement, but both load fairly slowly - I would try improve this next, or at least allow staged loading so visitors have something to start looking at quickly while the rest loads.

SMrF 13y ago
This is surprising. It's just HTML on S3 with cloudflare in front. Maybe Typekit is slowing it down...
- tocomment 13y ago
  Probably a dumb question, what is the benefit from using Cloudflare? If I naively set up a page like this I would have just done S3 directly, right?
  - general_failure 13y ago
    cloudfare will cache your content in much much more locations across the globe unlike plain s3. (cloudfront from amazon does the same thing)
- SeanDav 13y ago
  It may just be my own setup but to me it seemed slower to load than many other sites I visit.
- beznogim 13y ago
  Loads fine for me even on mobile, but then I get http://i.imgur.com/JpxvAOz.jpg http://i.imgur.com/JpxvAOz.jpg when I try to sign up (iOS, Safari).
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
citizens 13y ago
For what it's worth it loads quickly for me (1/3 second). East coast US.

napoleoncomplex 13y ago

Do you have any stats from your analytics you could share? It would be great to see the business side effect.

SMrF 13y ago
Not yet. I have some posts in the works for web designers so I'll see how they convert compared to the old page. I'm ignoring all stats while this article is on HN. This isn't exactly the target audience for my book.
notahacker 13y ago
Would be interesting to see the current version tested against one without all the "Photoshop bashing" too. I'm not sure if that was a suggestion from the talk or another idea you wanted to try, but I feel it would be far more effective if you condensed the many long bullet points down to "Sick of static Photoshop mockups that don't respond like real websites? Feel like you're doing everything twice?" (Maybe the bullet points belong in a blog or FAQ section with the title: "why not just use Photoshop?") TBH I actually like your first landing page copy (other than it missing an above-the-fold "what's in this book" statement) and the second one also feels like a work in progress, so it'd be interesting to see how they both perform.

thetrumanshow 13y ago

Sean Fioritto was the first person I met at BaconBizConf while waiting outside the doors on morning #1. Confident, smart, and altogether friendly guy. I was impressed the level of demonstrated grit he showed when he volunteered his site for a teardown. He was over there just scratching notes away while they punished him. We could all use that kind of grit. More of us would launch great products if we did. Pat Pohler had a teardown too. He should share his lessons learned as well... {Pat Signal}

SMrF 13y ago
Thanks Barry. It was nice to meet you there. It was such a great conference, I learned so much and met so many great, like-minded folks.
ahoyhere 13y ago
It's so weird for me to hear from people who were at BaconBizConf and thought the teardowns were "brutal" or "punishing." None of us panelists ever said "This is terrible" or anything of that sort, or insulted anyone/anything, or discouraged any of the volunteers, etc. We said "This doesn't work" "That won't work" "That's weak" etc.… and then gave lots of supportive suggestions to make it better. The worst possible thing anyone said is when Patrick said [paraphrasing] "Please don't take this personally, but if your target market is designers, you need to have more of a… design." Genuinely asking "Why would I be interested in this?" is not only not brutal, it's not even a criticism. I guess more people need to experience actual brutal criticism in order to see how our teardown was anything but!
- thetrumanshow 13y ago
  I guess I did make this overblown using those terms. And yes, when is Patrick ever 'punishing'? Heh. Then again, there's something to be said for being willing to be scrutinized by your heroes. Therein lies my admiration for Sean.
  - ahoyhere 13y ago
    This is true. I have a huge amount of respect for people who: A. Ask for feedback. B. Publicly! C. Act on the feedback. That's why Sean is awesome :) He did a GREAT job incorporating our feedback into something that's 10x better than before.

mbesto 13y ago

This is seriously good stuff. Great write-up and sounds like it was a good conf.

simonswords82 13y ago

Great work, thanks for sharing. I'd love to have Amy and Patrick critique my site - I reckon I'll head to BaconBizConf when it's next on.

thenomad 13y ago

All looks very sensible, but I'd be interested to see a split-test. You never know what will or won't convert...

SMrF 13y ago
The funny thing is I agree, but I don't think I'll do it. The old version is just so bad I feel like I'd be throwing away money. I'm not internet famous so traffic is hard for me to come by. Can I justify a split test? So the question becomes do I trust the experts? I do. Therefore this landing page is my new baseline -- I'll split test from here.
- thenomad 13y ago
  Given that it's a lead gen page, you could get some solid split-test data off $100 or so of spend on the advertising platform of your choice. However, I don't know if that's something you could afford. If it is, I'd definitely recommend it, but I can certainly see why you'd be inclined to trust the experts. FWIW, looking over the "after" page myself, I'd agree that it's a much more solid longish-form sales page. You'll probably be fine using that as your baseline!

oneye 13y ago

Thank you for sharing this. I've been working and listening hard and anything that clears up conversion tactics (especially when just handed to me) is gold. Cheers.

cocoflunchy 13y ago

I haven't read the article yet, but clicking on the before/after links got me to say: "Aha, it's a book!" in the first second after opening the 2nd link. So even if it's only this (which I'm sure it's not), huge improvement in the clarity of the message. Do you have data on the conversion rates before/after redesigning the landing page?

SMrF 13y ago
I only have before data right now, and not a lot. I'll be sure to post data for the new landing page, just as soon as I get some.

biot 13y ago

Up and Down the Ladder of Abstraction: http://worrydream.com/#!2/LadderOfAbstraction http://worrydream.com/#!2/LadderOfAbstraction This should be required reading for every developer. While the redesign looks better, I'm somewhat turned off because it follows the same design strategies as used by low-quality info products: * Cheesy book shot. At least it's not a fake "book generator" box. If this will be delivered as a PDF, why not use the Acrobat logo below a thumbnail preview of the actual cover/first page? To me, seeing real content lends credibility. * Thin column of text with bullet points. * Periodic bolded keywords. * The only things it's missing are a "P.S." section and a breakdown of the cost savings over the alternatives. I have no doubt that the reason these things are standard is that they work. However, for me the site has the same look and feel I've seen in many low-quality info product kind of sites. As a result, I'm immediately more skeptical than I otherwise would be.

Vitaly 13y ago
well, then I guess you won't be a customer. Guess what.. this doesn't matter, the loss is probably all yours (if the actual content is something you can benefit from). Don't forget, this book is being written to get profit and recognition (I think ;) and loosing a couple of "this looks too cheap for me" dudes is an OK price to pay to significantly increase the readership. And I'm pretty sure patio11 and brennan know quite a bit about this. So, so long as "it works" I think he's going in the right direction.
- biot 13y ago
  > well, then I guess you won't be a customer. Guess what.. this > doesn't matter, the loss is probably all yours Was this meant to be snarky, or am I misreading it? I completely agree, and it seems like you're arguing against a position I never took. > ... is an OK price to pay to significantly increase the readership As you no doubt noticed, I said these design decisions were likely made because they work. You are agreeing with my statement. > And I'm pretty sure patio11 and brennan know quite a bit about this. Did I claim otherwise? I shared the reasons why I had somewhat of a negative initial impression of the site. My impressions have nothing to do with the experience or credentials of those who were involved with the redesign.