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If the client is 'not worth it' you're just not charging enough. Just work out what your price is and send them a new quote. Don't ever fire a client, that's ju

• deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
• mzarate06 13y ago
  I disagree. Going back and forth to reach a higher price, only to have the client say No, is a waste of time. Even if they do agree to a higher price, money can only reconcile so much. Based on bad experiences I've had with a couple clients in the past, they couldn't pay me enough to work for them again.
  • Devilboy 13y ago
    Client: Please record yourself doing the job Me: OK no problem, that will cost an extra $X Client: Ah actually don't worry about the recording
• oelmekki 13y ago
  > Make the client say no. That's the better thing to do, but there's a problem, here : they already are in contract. Developer tried to do something that way (mentioned in update), arguing there must be an other contract for the video thing and making it way too expansive. But from what I understand, they've just felt back on first contract. Maybe in that very specific case it would be a good thing to break the deal early, because as parent mentionned, there certainly will be other problems (and reputation may be hurted more badly than if breaking the deal).
  • deleted 13y ago
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• zorbo 13y ago
  What's the price for your mental health?
  • michaelochurch 13y ago
    At $50,000 per hour, I'd do 40 hours of work for a hideous client. We're not talking about murder or anything with risk to life. We're talking about dealing with assholes. There is a price (theoretically) that makes that OK, so long as it's time-limited. Of course, the client will almost certainly not agree to $50k per hour, but isn't that kind of the point?
    • berntb 13y ago
      I had a boss who was a bit too ... stressed ... for a while. You just couldn't reason with him about it. In the end I solved it. I wrote in an email that he was just too stressed and really needed some time off, so he started to attack me personally. I wrote to him then that he should take what he just wrote and show it to his parents or some other persons he had trust in, and ask them how he was doing. He finally realized he had behaved as a complete asshole for a while. No, it wasn't a permanent solution. But he took a long, long, long vacation half a year later. I might work for him again, but I'd keep a reserve plan and be out of the door quite directly. Life is too short. Edit: Too small company to have an HR department. (I might add: I don't know if I succeeded, or he got himself under control when a quarter of the people quit and the rest had the CV out or at least updating it.)
      • ryen 13y ago
        Why were you playing therapist when you could have told HR?
        • ams6110 13y ago
          Why be a tattletale when you can solve a problem yourself?
        • michaelochurch 13y ago
• elithrar 13y ago
  > If the client is 'not worth it' you're just not charging enough. Just work out what your price is and send them a new quote. Don't ever fire a client, that's just silly. Make the client say no. I disagree. The more you charge the more you put yourself at risk—nominating some insane figure to scare him off is just as silly as his request (or close to it). There is nothing wrong with not taking on work or firing a client. It is a risk assessment, and the risks with a client who asks these kind of questions are huge. PS: I actually find it concerning that someone has to ask how to respond. Some people need to learn to say "no".
  • madaxe 13y ago
    Yup. Sometimes you have to just bite the bullet and fire them. We had someone approach us a few years ago we really didn't want to work with as everything they did screamed "moron in a hurry", so, rather than telling them to naff off, we gave them a quote that should have caused cardiac arrest. They agreed to it. Two years on. Still working with them. No amount of money makes it worth it. Particularly given that they still haven't paid said insane quote.
    • anonymous 13y ago
      If they haven't paid in two years shouldn't you be suing them?
      • madaxe 13y ago
        Oh, they have paid, just not in full. As to suing them, no - the industry we work in is stupidly tight knit, and regardless of the truth, any agency that sues their clients looks like crap. We have leverage over them in terms of "whoops, looks like your sole revenue stream just got turned off", they have leverage over us in terms of reputational damage. Were this some sole trader on the far side of the planet, there'd be nil compunction. But they're not.
    • Devilboy 13y ago
      Gotta get paid half up-front man!
• downandout 13y ago
  According to the article: "...The customer considers that if I don't want to record the video, it's because I have something to hide and want to lie about the real time spent on his project". Dealing with a client that tells you from the outset that they believe you are going to lie to them isn't merely an annoyance. It presents a risk to your career. This client will never be satisfied, or trust a word you say. He will inevitably sue or trash your reputation because, in the end, it isn't possible to satisfy delusional clients. That risk isn't worth any amount of money.
  • PerryCox 13y ago
    These kind of quotes from a customer should be instant red flags that they are not someone you want to work for. Devilboy does have a good bit of advice about charging an outrageous amount, but it's important to pick your battles. Sometimes no amount of money in the world is worth the headache that a customer like this could cause.
    • carbocation 13y ago
      There is always some amount of money that is worth the trouble. Now, it may be some amount of money that cannot be paid by any entity aside from governments, Exxon, Apple, and a few others, but it is some amount of money nonetheless.
      • Amadou 13y ago
        True. The problem is getting paid. The client can agree to a ridiculous rate, but actually collecting is a whole different story. My gut says clients with red flags like this will be exceptionally difficult to collect from.
        • mikeash 13y ago
          You could perhaps deal with it by insisting on being paid up front. But then I'd worry about the potential for lawsuits, if the client really is that crazy, and that's a potentially unlimited downside you can't work around with higher rates. The more he's able to pay you, the more he's able to pay his lawyers when he sues you.
• iuguy 13y ago
  In this particular instance I'd get the customer to provide the kit or expense the equivalent kit to do the job (hardware, software etc.) and have them pick it up. They'd pay a top whack rate for the work too, mainly because it'd be what it costs to work their way rather than mine and I'd need to factor in costs for dealing with the requests I'd expect them to make. If at the end of the day the customer can deal with that, then I'd accept it. I can isolate all my resources specific to that customer, provide them with dedicated kit (presumably with enough storage for them to keep the video footage) and they're (hopefully) happy with what I've done.
• nnq 13y ago
  Just curious: If the client asks you to also plumb hist toilet, you'd say "yes, but I'll bill you at $5k/hr for the toilet project"? You really want to be the "do anything for enough money" guy? ...cause this is how you're labeling yourself by going this route more than one time. Imho, taking some pride and saying "no, fuck of, I don't do this, find someone else" makes you feel 1000x better as you realize you don't do what you do just because the client pays you, but also because you want to do it and you want to just do a good job at it. ...it might bring you less money but boy it's wort it (I may be weird, but I get a real kick when I get to just tell someone "NO", regardless of whether it's client that you're too busy to take his project or someone close asking for a favor: it really underlines your freedom and individuality and makes you feel good). (And just to make it clear: in my book "plumbing the client's toilet" and "letting the client see a video recording of me working" are in the same league of completely unreasonable requests.)
  • mikeash 13y ago
    I'd definitely accept toilet jobs for $5,000/hour, then subcontract out to a plumber for their going rate, and pocket the difference. IMO a bad example.
    • redblacktree 13y ago
      Yes, but what if they demanded that you do it, personally. While wearing a French maid costume.
      • mikeash 13y ago
        Then I'm no longer a contractor, and they have to hire me, put me on a payroll, etc. I doubt they want to do that. I probably would walk away from that, but my point is that if you are a contractor, then the requirement is simply that the work be done, not that you do it personally. If they're willing to pay absurd money for something you don't want to do but other people will do, subcontract.
        • chii 13y ago
• mikeash 13y ago
  I agree with the sentiment when it comes to the work they want you to do, but this client is indicating that they're likely to cause trouble when it comes to collecting payment, in which case it's probably just not worth dealing with them at all.
• btilly 13y ago
  Be careful. I have known a number of people who have followed this strategy, and discovered the hard way that they didn't charge enough. Also note that a client that you don't want to do business with is probably a client that others do not want to do business with, so they are used to being charged exorbitant fees.
• jroseattle 13y ago
  It's far more important to tell the client "no", because a client will expect that you have no boundaries. The set-the-bill-rate-massively-high approach is a passive-aggressive way of telling a client "no", and it doesn't work well -- it can backfire. Having been independent for 5+ years, saying "no" is a learned skill.
• beat 13y ago
  Hell YES fire a client! It's not just about money. It's about grief and stress. Don't work for people who want to set up a Panopticon because they think you're cheating them. Just... no.
• Silhouette 13y ago
  If the client is 'not worth it' you're just not charging enough. Some things aren't worth doing, at any price. Compromising my professional standards is one example. Working with a client who doesn't trust me to do my job properly is another. This sounds like an example of both.
  • slantyyz 13y ago
    And don't forget that the simple act of having to communicate with a difficult prospect/client alone can be endlessly frustrating. Sometimes it's better to just save yourself the headache of having to deal with a person any further than you already have.
• analyst74 13y ago
  I generally agree with this principle, but in practice, it's really hard. You only find out how difficult a client is after dealing with them. And in many cases, if you have a feeling that this client is not going to be a very generous one, firing them might be most profitable thing to do.