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Car suspension tuning is a very subtle and difficult black art. It's all about what's happening dynamically in response to transient inputs (go around a corner,

Car suspension tuning is a very subtle and difficult black art. It's all about what's happening dynamically in response to transient inputs (go around a corner, hit a bump, etc.). I believe Lotus does a lot of engineering consulting helping other manufacturers dial in suspensions. I wouldn't be surprised if Tesla had them consult. Even some of the big car companies have trouble dialing in suspension on their own (I'm looking at you underdamped Japanese cars). European brands tend to be really good at this, and can take the same raw materials that everyone else is working with and create superior setups. Porsche somehow manages to start with the 911 where they stick the engine way out behind the rear axle (high polar moment of inertia, poor front/rear weight distribution) and make it handle beautifully. VW cars also tend to have great suspension tuning. Being able to keep the weight low to the ground in the Tesla contributes to a low center of gravity and I imagine must really help enormously. Also the body under-tray is beautiful, like something you'd expect to see on a purpose built race car, probably helps a lot with the aerodynamics. I imagine more and more cars will get similar under-trays to improve aerodynamics and fuel efficiency. It's interesting there is strong anti-dive geometry built into the car, probably to avoid problems with throttle lift oversteer caused by inexperienced drivers. I wonder if the current Model S handling leaves anything to be desired when driven to it's absolute limits and how the car would handle with some of the anti-dive geometry removed. Removing this geometry is a common mod on some cars.

ams6110 13y ago
The first Tesla (Roadster) was built on a Lotus Elise chassis.
josephlord 13y ago
"Porsche somehow manages to start with the 911 where they stick the engine way out behind the rear axle (high polar moment of inertia, poor front/rear weight distribution) and make it handle beautifully." Actually there are some benefits to the arrangement. The high polar moment of inertia actually should make any spin slower to start and easier to catch than a mid engine arrangement. Under hard braking the weight shifts forwards so the weight distribution changes to more balanced than with other arrangements. Under power the weight is over the rear wheels for power out of the corner. A 911 behaves differently to other cars but I'm not sure the arrangement is actually worse in most dynamic scenarios. Understeer into the corners is the main dynamic weakness when pushed really hard and can be compensated for by trail braking into the corners. I guess you can get into trouble if you go into a corner too fast, panic brake and lose the rear end but if you are used to the set up you can make use of it. [I've only driven a 1980's 911 so maybe I'm over extrapolating to all rear engined cars and I've never tried a mid engined car. This book is really good at explaining how do get the most out of different weight distributions and has some fun stories (I've got the first edition but it probably isn't much different): http://www.amazon.co.uk/Porsche-High-performance-Driving-Handbook-Elford/dp/0760327548 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Porsche-High-performance-Driving-Han...]
- beachstartup 13y ago
  i've owned an NA2 NSX and a 997 911 GT3 and the NSX was much easier to lose control in. it felt unstable in general. 911 grips harder as you turn harder, very strange to get used to but once you 'get it' it feels great. obviously there is a limit but you are not going to hit it on the street in a car like a 911. i haven't driven any modern mid-engine cars like the R8 or boxster though, i'm sure it's vastly improved from the NSX, which was basically designed in the 80s, so no fault to it. it was a great car. can't wait to see the new one. right now i drive a performance sedan but my next car will be a "regular" 911, probably a 991 S. as for the tesla... eh. doesn't give me that "gotta have it" feeling. i still want gasoline and a clutch. call me old fashioned. i would be interested to know the % of current tesla owners that have ever owned "real" sports cars, not just "sporty" cars. it doesn't strike me as the same crowd.
  - dbrian 13y ago
    Definitely not the same crowd. It's still a 4 door sedan. They're competing against the Panamera not the GT3.
    - beachstartup 13y ago
      tesla roadster
    - beachstartup 13y ago
      also, my current car is an E63 AMG PP, that's the crowd i was comparing, i.e. me.
  - susanhi 13y ago
    Just curious, have you test driven the model S? Or is it the idea of not having gas/clutch that makes you uninterested?
    - beachstartup 13y ago
      haven't test driven one but it can't beat my current car in performance numbers, so ... and the roadster just absolutely does not appeal to me. i don't like roadsters in general but it's just too feminine and it looks hideous with the top on.
techdmn 13y ago
Generally speaking I'm right there with you, but thrown by your use of Japanese cars as an example of underdamping. I haven't driven a lot of European cars, but compared to most offerings from Detroit Japanese damping is fantastic. I've driven late model cars by two of the big three that felt like they forgot to put dampers in at all, you just bounce and float around on the springs. I assume this (combined with size) is why American cars are so often referred to as "boats".
DEinspanjer 13y ago
The car definitely does handle wonderfully for a non-professional driver. There are quite a few complaints about severe tire wear due to the negative camber for people who consistently ride it very rough. I suspect they engineered the throttle lift oversteer and such specifically for the wider market they were looking to hit. Not just car aficionados, but also people who were EV or green or geeks and such.

ams6110 13y ago

The first Tesla (Roadster) was built on a Lotus Elise chassis.

josephlord 13y ago

"Porsche somehow manages to start with the 911 where they stick the engine way out behind the rear axle (high polar moment of inertia, poor front/rear weight distribution) and make it handle beautifully." Actually there are some benefits to the arrangement. The high polar moment of inertia actually should make any spin slower to start and easier to catch than a mid engine arrangement. Under hard braking the weight shifts forwards so the weight distribution changes to more balanced than with other arrangements. Under power the weight is over the rear wheels for power out of the corner. A 911 behaves differently to other cars but I'm not sure the arrangement is actually worse in most dynamic scenarios. Understeer into the corners is the main dynamic weakness when pushed really hard and can be compensated for by trail braking into the corners. I guess you can get into trouble if you go into a corner too fast, panic brake and lose the rear end but if you are used to the set up you can make use of it. [I've only driven a 1980's 911 so maybe I'm over extrapolating to all rear engined cars and I've never tried a mid engined car. This book is really good at explaining how do get the most out of different weight distributions and has some fun stories (I've got the first edition but it probably isn't much different): http://www.amazon.co.uk/Porsche-High-performance-Driving-Handbook-Elford/dp/0760327548 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Porsche-High-performance-Driving-Han...]

beachstartup 13y ago
i've owned an NA2 NSX and a 997 911 GT3 and the NSX was much easier to lose control in. it felt unstable in general. 911 grips harder as you turn harder, very strange to get used to but once you 'get it' it feels great. obviously there is a limit but you are not going to hit it on the street in a car like a 911. i haven't driven any modern mid-engine cars like the R8 or boxster though, i'm sure it's vastly improved from the NSX, which was basically designed in the 80s, so no fault to it. it was a great car. can't wait to see the new one. right now i drive a performance sedan but my next car will be a "regular" 911, probably a 991 S. as for the tesla... eh. doesn't give me that "gotta have it" feeling. i still want gasoline and a clutch. call me old fashioned. i would be interested to know the % of current tesla owners that have ever owned "real" sports cars, not just "sporty" cars. it doesn't strike me as the same crowd.
- dbrian 13y ago
  Definitely not the same crowd. It's still a 4 door sedan. They're competing against the Panamera not the GT3.
  - beachstartup 13y ago
    tesla roadster
  - beachstartup 13y ago
    also, my current car is an E63 AMG PP, that's the crowd i was comparing, i.e. me.
- susanhi 13y ago
  Just curious, have you test driven the model S? Or is it the idea of not having gas/clutch that makes you uninterested?
  - beachstartup 13y ago
    haven't test driven one but it can't beat my current car in performance numbers, so ... and the roadster just absolutely does not appeal to me. i don't like roadsters in general but it's just too feminine and it looks hideous with the top on.

techdmn 13y ago

Generally speaking I'm right there with you, but thrown by your use of Japanese cars as an example of underdamping. I haven't driven a lot of European cars, but compared to most offerings from Detroit Japanese damping is fantastic. I've driven late model cars by two of the big three that felt like they forgot to put dampers in at all, you just bounce and float around on the springs. I assume this (combined with size) is why American cars are so often referred to as "boats".

DEinspanjer 13y ago

The car definitely does handle wonderfully for a non-professional driver. There are quite a few complaints about severe tire wear due to the negative camber for people who consistently ride it very rough. I suspect they engineered the throttle lift oversteer and such specifically for the wider market they were looking to hit. Not just car aficionados, but also people who were EV or green or geeks and such.