6 ms·

_why's complete printer spool as one book [pdf]

226 points by coffeejunk 13y ago

AliEzer 13y ago
"Toutes les grandes amis que je n'ai jamais pu avoir." should be "Toutes les grandes amies que je n'ai jamais pu avoir." or "Tous les grands amis que je n'ai jamais pu avoir." (masculine). And even with the correct grammar, it sounds very awkward. Just sayin'.
- derefr 13y ago
  Read the bottom half of the book. It's likely a quote in "Jobsian derelict French."
gnufied 13y ago
On anonymous programmers, I respect this guy - Icefrog. Lead designer of Dota2, long time maintainer of Dota1 (And the one who really brought the game to the fore), he even works for Valve but nobody knows who he really is. To certain extent I think remaining anonymous forces you to be humble, which I think can be a good thing, but damn people want to put a name to everything. EDIT: I suspect some people at Valve will at least know who he really is.
- lmm 13y ago
  Humble is not a word I'd use to describe this stunt. If _why and their readers are having fun then fair play to them, but this is putting more attention on the person and less on what they've done, whereas the truly humble would want the reverse.
  - vidarh 13y ago
    Part of the the issue for _why seems to be that he got extremely disillusioned about criticism of his code; criticism he took to heart (in this book he also very explicitly say "I wrote hideous code for years"). So putting more attention on a persona that is thoroughly his own creation, and away from his code, seems to me like he is dismissing the worth of his coding. In fact, I find it quite sad to see how he refers to his code - I admire a lot of what he did. Sure, a lot of it was not great engineering, but it was artful. E.g. Camping is fantastic to read, both for itself and as a sort of practical demonstration of how bloated many frameworks are. It's not that most people would ever have a good reason to use Camping as their web framework, but that to me is besides the point. That said, part of it this whole thing also does seem to be driven by (hurt) pride. I hope he sticks with the writing, though - so far I'm halfway through the PDF, and I love it.
  - doki_pen 13y ago
    This is what he's done though. I think that he'd like to be more than a programmer.
- oblio 13y ago
  About Icefrog - I can't really say anything about his programming skills - I think he must be decent since he optimized the JASS scripts used by the Warcraft 3 engine and he also created tons of fun stuff using it. As a comparison, his predecessor, Guinsoo, had created a map with a 10 minute loading time (!). In Icefrog's reign I don't think any map had a loading time above 1-2 minutes on a decent computer. Anyway, getting back to the topic - I don't know about his strength as a programmer, but I think we could all learn from him as a community leader. Anonymous leader, rallied a lot of people around him (a few other coders, a lot of testers, a TON of contributors), gave Dota a rhythm, a release flow that made Dota huge. You'd play the game knowing that game crashing bugs would be fixed ASAP, that game play balance issues would be resolved, that the next version would make everything just BETTER. A ton of dedication and hard work didn't hurt either :)
Luyt 13y ago
Does anyone have this PDF available for download? (without the need to register first, and without the need for a Facebook account)
- iamdave 13y ago
  user coffeejunk has since posted one to dropbox: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5575823 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5575823
pervycreeper 13y ago
>84 pages This saga is the height of self-indulgence. I would provisionally explain all the hubbub around _why by the desire to flatter oneself that he can cross the gap between snow's two cultures (cf. apple).
- polarix 13y ago
  "This saga is the height of self-indulgence." Worth looking in the mirror with a comment like that.
- mattmanser 13y ago
  I'm not sure what reaction you want to elicit by being so scathing, but I disagree with your assessment as it relies on the premise that programming is a science, which it's not. It's a two headed beast, part science, part craft and _why lives deep in the craft territory. I think many of us here took time to realise that, that there's not just a right answer. When you realise it's a craft you want to be artistic with it, but you can only be with the output, who ever sees the input? In my opinion _why neatly bridges that desire to be artistic with the invisible nature of the craftsmanship of code. It's an outlet that coding can't sate. And it happens by doing that he also taught and helped a lot of people. Have you noticed how a lot of programmers are also musicians? I think that's part of the same desire.
  - pervycreeper 13y ago
    There's nothing wrong with combining, say, technical and expressive aims. In a way, that's kind of the holy grail of making stuff. That's not the problem though. I have spent a great deal of time interpreting, appraising, and creating works of art myself, and when I read the OP pdf, pretension and self-absorption ooze through every page. Hollow writing. Whimsical and heartfelt? I say arbitrary and jejune. It's because the community that follows him is so desperate for an existence proof of the above mentioned combination (hey look, we're arty too!), that they neglect to really look at the situation objectively.
    - vidarh 13y ago
coffeejunk 13y ago
Direct link to the pdf: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/8z6j7bju8qx7g7o/WHY_FULL.pdf?token_hash=AAFHqKM5vjJo185d-tm7sv1pC4UXI0LdD4WUBtvy2D4vUg&dl=1 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/8z6j7bju8qx7g7o/WHY_FULL...
- Luyt 13y ago
  Thank you! A direct link is so more user-friendly than putting a mandatory registration wall before a PDF.
drawkbox 13y ago
Read a good portion of it, he is a good writer. Maybe that is the goal, the writing felt a bit Hunter S. Thompson gonzo style. Funny though that the more of a jerktoaster he became after being known, the longer he will be known, more than most. "I like what you've done with the character..."
- iamdave 13y ago
  Curious, what about his writing compelled you to draw the comparison to HST?
  - drawkbox 13y ago
    Just kind of random, rollercoaster presentation, direct experience intertwined with the overarching theme of withdrawing. The whole thing mentions writers he has read or influential to him so it is rooted in that. I guess it seems like a writing experiment as would HST maybe would do and a next step.
lbolognini 13y ago
_why should read up on Majorana
pmros 13y ago
_why somewhat reminds me of David Foster Wallace.
- spinchange 13y ago
  the last part of thaumaturgy's comment above ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5576010 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5576010 ) is very similar to how I feel about Wallace's Infinite Jest.
lbolognini 13y ago
I'm reading it now, had to turn the laptop around and people gave me odd looks as I'm in a coffee shop. _why belongs to the line of writers that mastered the "stream of consciousness". Love the little details, the shades of little feelings he describes... reminds me of John Fante. Next month _why don't you read John Fante?
thaumaturgy 13y ago
I think the thing I like about _why -- not that anybody asked -- is that I'm never sure what to think when I'm reading this stuff. Usually I can't get through more than a few sentences of something without judging it: "That was smart, this was insightful, this author is a moron, I don't think that was right, I disagree with that but I'm not bothered by their opinion..." _why really kills that here. I'm never sure if there's a point to what he's writing, if he's playing a joke on people, or if he's playing a character, or if he's being totally and completely honest in an unusual way. I'm not sure if I'm the joke, he's the joke, or if we're sharing a joke. Or if it's not a joke at all and I'm just too stupid to understand. It's really neat.
- eob 13y ago
  Nicely put. I think that you've really captured what about his writing and persona are so special to the community. I think the sense of sensitivity you feel through his writing adds to that, too. If he's making a joke of you, it's a gentle one. Kind of the yin to Zed Shaw's yang.
  - harrisreynolds 13y ago
    I thought of Zed Shaw some when reading these comments too. Definitely different from _why but still comes at things from a different and sometimes bizarre perspective that I like!
- patrickdeuley 13y ago
  I really like how you put that - it perfectly sums up how I feel about it. I'm never sure exactly what parts he's kidding about (though there are a few obvious ones), but that isn't the point, right? It's a story, and the story and the feeling you get from the story are the point, not specifically what is and isn't true. A lot of people have tried to dissect this way too far and have gotten extremely heated in the process. I would argue that they haven't spent enough time dealing with high art. The artist might have a statement they're making with a certain piece, but ultimately that's unimportant next to what you take away from it. If this speaks to you, if this is meaningful to you, then that is the point. The reaction you take away is precisely what it is, and there's no point in arguing about it - but if you wish to share and revel in the experience, let's collectively appreciate it in that way. I for one found it enthralling. Part of it I know had to do with nostalgia, as I actually was first interested in programming in part by his Poignant guide. The first third or so of the book really reflected that writing style, and I loved it. As it progressed, it got heavier and heavier, and I'm still not sure I understand the allegory he was painting, but the sense I got from it was very clear to me. Some have suggested that it was in reference to his experience in the startup world, and I can buy that, but I feel like there was something there that I probably won't grasp until I wake up in the middle of the night tonight thinking about it. Thanks for telling us one more story _why, wether it's your last or not, I enjoyed it.
sprayk 13y ago
I emailed _why once, asking him how I should cite his name in a highschool project I was working on. Here is his response: You can use my name (why the lucky stiff) and the date of publication (feb 16, 2004 - present) as frequently in your studies as you wish, so long as you keep your grade point average up and you diversify your elective credits with a broad portfolio of subjects. I am specifically hoping you will bask in the study of 1930s Russian absurdist literature. Oberiu is the name of the movement. I will never forget you. Everything made sense after that, and the absurdist part of my world lit class that year.
- igravious 13y ago
  That is wonderful Sir. How may I cite this HN post of yours? And what subject do you want me to take (remembering that I don't speak a word of Russian).
- lbolognini 13y ago
  All the time I was reading this I was thinking of Daniil Kharms. The Desert of Forbidden Art also comes to mind... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1536458/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1536458/ I don't know why but I feel some kind of kinship to _why. And would it be just "us hackers" as a group that have any hope of "getting it"? Are we all alike in this sense? Wouldn't we all find ourselves at home reading Knut Hamsun or Jaroslav Hasek? Aren't we all freaks when we follow ourselves down the rabbit hole? I find comfort in knowing that I'm not alone and that other people are, still, similarly lost.
taylorbuley 13y ago
I've read _why's guide to Ruby but feel out of the loop here. What is this? Why is it significant?
- MrUnknown 13y ago
  I am not following this nearly as much as everyone else, but I can explain why I am interested in it. _why is more of an artist instead of a programmer, he became popular, wanted to be anonymous (or at least his actions and code be more important than the person) but didn't really hide his identity. Once who he was became semi-popular (an actual name and, I believe, where he worked) he completely deleted his online presence. All of his code, etc. and just disappeared with no mention as to why he did it. Now he is back and telling a story. I see it as a art project he is doing with his alternate identity. The character of _why is just interesting. First we have no idea why he disappeared, now we have no idea why he is reaching out to us. In the end he could say "Drink More Ovaltine," disappear again, and I wouldn't be surprised.
  - ep103 13y ago
    But why would he? He's literally turned the internet into his printer. File --> Print --> To Internet. And this way, he can still stay offline.
- vosechu_ 13y ago
  It's closure for those that took over his projects and for those that worried about his sudden disappearance. http://words.steveklabnik.com/closure http://words.steveklabnik.com/closure
davidcollantes 13y ago
With very few exceptions, all this comes across (to me) as mumbo-jumbo.
coffeejunk 13y ago
It is easy to see _why as "the crazy ruby guy who wrote some scripts and created all this drama around his persona". Even though _why did indeed write some (very useful) programs, I think this view of him misses the point and probably explains why so many people seem to be puzzled by his newest endeavour. Yes, he wrote some Ruby code, but the code was his least important contribution. _why was the first person to actually create art around and about software. Others before him have used software as a tool in their artistic process, but to my knowledge no one has ever taken coding as the subject of a performance art so intricate and beautiful as the character whytheluckystiff. All his scripts, all his writings, even all his quirky animations and songs show a love and passion for coding as a recreational activity that defies our conventional beliefs about software as a craft & industry. We often hear people in this community talk about elegant code, beautiful code, even code as art. But all these sentiments usually mean art in the form of craftsmanship: We want a shorter way to write the same web app, a more expressive way to create our tests, a more concise DSL for data manipulation. While all of these are worthy goals, they are only a tiny, tiny fraction of what coding really is or at least could be. If something doesn't help us build our MVP faster, it's useless to us. Isn't there more to software than that? Sure, there are people focusing on more esoteric stuff in their free time, writing their own Lisps, exploring different data structures, etc. But all of these activities still follow the same tenets: More efficient is better, smaller is better, better is beautiful. We are in love with perfection and purity, because that is what we (necessarily) strive for in our daily work. _why was different. Similar to how the decadent and symbolist movements of the late 19th century popularized "Art for Art's sake", _why devoted his whole opus to "Code for Code's sake". His work as a "freelancer professor" showed how much he cared about children learning programming as an enjoyable activity, not as a way to increase the supply of professional programmers. He also satirized our obsession with exactly this professionalism that tends to creep into our thinking and permeates our culture. In short, he used his character to show us aspects of software that were largely underrepresented or ignored in most mainstream discussions. Personally, reading the poignant guide was the first time I read a piece of code not to understand the code, but to understand a wonderful story. I still don't know how to program in Ruby, but that doesn't matter. In my opinion the poignant guide never really was about Ruby. It was a wonderfully quirky book that happened to be using Ruby as its language. _why's style is absolutely unique and reflects his approach to coding: It doesn't have to be (what we normally consider) beautiful or clean, but it nevertheless forms a great and intricate experience for the reader. Similarly, today was the first time that I regretted not owning a printer. To see new pages suddenly arrive in the tray to form a crazy and beautiful story must have been magical. Even using only a virtual printer it was wonderful to read the new parts of the book as they arrived and this experience alone made it worthwhile for me. The content itself deserves more than just this quick HN comment though. So, if you want to know why so many people seem to enjoy the works of _why, set aside some time and start to dig through his estate of old stuff. Don't try to find something useful, just let the whole strange collection sink in. As is often the case with art, the subjective experience is hard to put into words as it depends so much on your personal context and the context of the artwork. I have definitely done a shoddy job trying to describe what makes _why special for me, I am not even sure it can be adequately put into words. But if you like things that are absurd, sometimes useless, yet strangely beautiful, then take a closer look at this works. Thank you for everything, _why. -- A friend asked me to post this for him.
startswithaj 13y ago
Is the oprah thing he refers to real?
- RivieraKid 13y ago
  Obviously no.
  - egdelwonk 13y ago
    I had to look it up too! Surprisingly "Oprah Jerktoaster" brings back exactly 0 results.
    - vidarh 13y ago
      The part where they all end up dead ought to have been a dead giveaway.
      - startswithaj 13y ago
        I hadn't read that far when I posted the question. Even soo, Oprah's had some pretty wacky guests in her time :)
macarthy12 13y ago
At least _why makes life a little more interesting... And why not.
spur_ous 13y ago
The aspect I enjoy, almost as much as his writing craft, is his presentation craft, any insights into how the 'book' was produced? I'd love to understand better how things like the overbled text were created. A photocopy of laser printed text, then scanned perhaps? The font faces and spacing seem to have been chosen with care, can anyone names the various faces used? guess at the layout software? Then the PCL is some kind of concatenation of page (bitmapped) images I guess?
- vidarh 13y ago
  > I'd love to understand better how things like the overbled text were created. A photocopy of laser printed text, then scanned perhaps? The typed parts looked like a combination of a typewriter and a low-ish resolution inkjet to me.
kunai 13y ago
_why's site 404'd just now. I hope he's okay.
- derefr 13y ago
  Well, he did say that he was "returning the character to the public" after the publication of the book, since he "does so enjoy seeing what we all do with it."
- raimondious 13y ago
  The site 404'd because the performance is over.
- unreal37 13y ago
  What would a "404 error" have to do with his health?
- vosechu_ 13y ago
  Some people in the irc room believe that he is doing just fine; that this was an event to ensure that the character/role _why is returned to the public domain in an orderly manner. The original maintainer of the _why persona appears to be doing okay and in good spirits. He gave people combs and a triumph message on the website.
derefr 13y ago
Fun moments for me: - The thematic element of wishing that the reader not follow the "references" in the work--the iPhone smackdown, and later more clearly with the SACRED CLOWNS--leading later namedrops to pass without question. (In a strange way, it almost feels like the urge to look them up was similar to an urge to vomit: it has passed, and now I feel better.) - Slipping into Inform 7 to actually tell a story. I almost wanted to paste it into an interpreter--it's valid Inform code--but it's more powerful as narrative, and more powerful in the narrative because of its structure. In the moment where he lost momentum and looked around for a next step, the world "branched out" into a space composed of choices. This is the one more little attempt to show people what "code as art" can mean. - The realization that (possible spoilers) the last third of the book is the story of how he found himself working at a start-up. His reactions in-narrative mirror his comment earlier in the work that he's "learning to get over his hatred of entrepreneurs." --- On the whole, a very coherent story. If you're having trouble making sense of it, make sure to interpret all the "deaths" in the story as death of identity, rather than physical death. Losing a job is death; breaking the social contract of a character is death; etc. And now, the site is down, and the _why identity is dead once more. (And on a melancholic, perhaps overly-personal note: I do so wish that I could be friends with that man. Not the identity, just the man. Talking about The Happening would be fine.)
- curiousdannii 13y ago
  It was interesting to see Inform 7 source for its own sake, rather than for what it compiles to (which in this case would be filled with non sequiturs.)
- waxpancake 13y ago
  I OCRed the Inform 7 code and added it to Playfic: http://playfic.com/games/waxpancake/sacred-clowns-by-why-the-lucky-stiff http://playfic.com/games/waxpancake/sacred-clowns-by-why-the...
parnas 13y ago
I'm sorry.. I don't understand the fanatical devotion and sacrifice(for example, having a nervous breakdown, or leaving a job for some startup when you've got wife and family because of devotion to the python community) for scripting languages that are all more-or-less the same +- curly braces as ruby/python/perl/php/C whatever. Look for something else to be interested in--OCaml and F#.
- pekk 13y ago
  Languages don't matter, so use OCaml and F#. What?
phren0logy 13y ago
Printing a book as a print spool, including a self-referential handwritten program to print the spool? If you don't think this is fun, I just don't know what to tell you. Speaking purely for myself, the absurdist nature of _why's work is part of the fun. The feeling of being a little bit confused but enjoying the moment is why I find programming interesting in the first place. Keep up the great work _why!
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
philwelch 13y ago
This could be just the first part--remember that the last page was called NOTYET and shows a hand covering a handwritten journal page, implying that the story of why's escape from the Jobsians (which you can barely make out between his fingers) will be published in the future.
- lbolognini 13y ago
  The Jobsians thing is brilliant. I was laughing all the time as I was reading that part. If you've noticed they also only have 3 fingers, like chickens.
Trano 13y ago
For anyone who missed this yesterday like I did, _why's site was updated yesterday but is now back offline. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5571387 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5571387 shows the progress of figuring out what was happening. Basically he was sending out print commands to print the book that is linked here.
wbhart 13y ago
I only have questions, and _why is only one of them. The two burning ones for me are to what extent is he deliberate with the role his persona plays and to what extent are individuals trying to take a stab at what they think his role is, in the vain hope that he will take up the role again, having been given new direction by their witty proposal? (Easier to feel good about someone's role when they aren't disappeared. And let's face it, everyone is secretly itching to points whore all the forums with "_why is back!") And secondly, what did he mean that it is dangerous to come to us in this way? Are printer spools dangerous, or is he worried about the effect of the publicity on the person(a). Or is it dangerous for us? Has it really taken a year? Seems like forever and just a few days!
- jacquesm 13y ago
  The guy is just really good at implementing one of the rules of PT Barnum: "Always keep them wanting more".
timcederman 13y ago
Did anyone else try going to the YouTube video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShpcjWG_Me0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShpcjWG_Me0
- afics 13y ago
  hm, i thought the last letter was an O. I get "This video is not available." using the following id. ShpcjWG_MeO
yathern 13y ago
On page 58, there is more text that can be seen through the partially transparent page. I messed around with it trying to find the right amount of blur and noise removal and various effects on it to make the text most readable, and this is what I came out with: http://i.imgur.com/CyyWWBR.png http://i.imgur.com/CyyWWBR.png It looks like the title is "A-Power-Plant". This leads me to believe that this section of the book has been printed out, laid on top of another book and scanned, so that it looks like a full book. Does anyone know what book it might be on top of?
- vosechu_ 13y ago
  Maybe this? http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/a-power-plant/ http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/a-power-plant/
  - yathern 13y ago
    Definitely. I was thinking the second word was "invisible" to begin with.
cag_ii 13y ago
It looks like a big commit was just made to the site repo... New site? https://github.com/cwales/cwales.github.com https://github.com/cwales/cwales.github.com
KVFinn 13y ago
In the original, pages were individually titled. The title was often quite relevant. Can you add that to the top or bottom of each page?
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
tetsuo_shima 13y ago
It may be my own feelings and so forth, but I vote that comments are disabled on this network. It's getting way out of control, quality of the network exponentially deteriorating, and far too much blatant disrespect without regard, perpetuating the same cycles of melancholia for any of those individuals who are genuinely interested in understanding. For those who feel the need to be correct, the need to correct, the need to justify, the need to express their own opinions on behalf of the though of an other, for those who have yet to understand that they as themselves are not the constitution of thought of all of those who are an other independent of the self, for those who simply cannot simply recognize any/all realizations, for those who require conclusions, for those who wish to change the order of the world, for those who cannot be bothered with interaction that may oppose their own desire, etc., please leave this network. Please. I beg of you to leave. I beg of you to leave and return when you've lost the ability to use express your opinion in the forefront of others, when you've come to understand that every interact between your self and an other affects the experience and understanding of others, when you've come to understand, when you've learned to listen, when you've learned to reason, when you've learned your own language, when you've learned your own self, and finally, when you've learned an other relatively independent of others in relation to your selves. The amount of hatred in the world is enough to drive anyone insane, why bring it to a network full of though-thirsty individuals who simply wish to share other understands? I may be delusional in my expression of cordiality, though I only wish that this madness stops. Why I have even bothered to make an account to share my own realization? The network is unique in its own right, and very difficult to find such a large group of like-minds. The more I visit, the further such ideals deviate from the truth, and it's disturbing. Quite a lot of this is clearly addressed in _why's seemingly random queue, but that's not the point. The point is [TL;DR;DC;WC;] Your opinions are going to change. If they don't, you're likely cheating yourself, and respectively others. Please find it in your minds to enjoy the thought of one another. ---- For those of you on your high-horse of supreme divinity and fortitude, I sincerely hope you come find your self humbled by your self. Kind regards, <Let's pretend it matters>
obviouslygreen 13y ago
I really don't understand the uproar and significance here. I read through the book because I figured there'd be something insightful, interesting, or explanatory in there. There basically isn't. If it's just supposed to be art -- some kind of odd, disjointed story for its own sake -- then at least that's something, even if I didn't really care much for it. I do like some of the presentation. The print queue thing is clever, and the variety of scans/handwriting/printing in the work, where it's not a hindrance to reading, is fun (I can see that the hindrance is part of the work, but it still comes off as obnoxious to me). Still, it leaves me wondering: Why do people care about this? It's some guy that believed he wasn't a good programmer, stopped programming, went AWOL from the internet, was happy about it, and then apparently wrote some sort of strange fiction. OK, whatever floats your boat, but usually these fads pass. This one just won't go away, even though going away is exactly what the author did (or, arguably, is continuously failing to do). Do those of you getting high on this see it as some kind of existential statement or puzzle? I think way too much is being read into the whole thing.
MrBra 13y ago
someone with free time, and will and/or passion or interest for languages please translate it to other popular languages please
pathdependent 13y ago
This was a great experience. It felt like a modern take on Principia Discordia. Thanks, _why.
moeedm 13y ago
He's the Daft Punk of the Ruby world.
sfcgeorge 13y ago
I wrote a little blog post in tribute to why, "Nobody Knows Why": http://www.sfcgeorge.co.uk/posts/2013/04/19/nobody-knows-why http://www.sfcgeorge.co.uk/posts/2013/04/19/nobody-knows-why The post also links to an updated PDF compendium of all _why's recent documents. All rotated and in the correct order (maybe). Bursting with _whyness.
charlieflowers 13y ago
Why the Lucky Stiff is brilliant, so much so he is completely strange. But you can see the brilliance a mile away. His Ruby comics were technically brilliant and artistically brilliant at the same time, and they did both effortlessly. When someone blows you away with real ability, and does it while juggling apples and telling dirty jokes, without breaking a sweat, it (rightfully so) makes an impression. Plus, BACON!
gcr 13y ago
Does anyone know what was up with the paypal link a few commits back?
- sorghum 13y ago
  A few people (myself included) tried to use it while it was up and everyone had their payment refunded soon after.
  - gcr 13y ago
    Same thing happened to me. Sent the account $20 and it was refunded about an hour later. I mean, I'm more than happy to support this. _why could make one hell of a kickstarter, if he wanted to.
pax 13y ago
still no rapgenius version :/ is there anywhere any explanatory review of this?
dhotson 13y ago
Welcome back _why. I had a feeling we'd see you again. :-)

226 points by coffeejunk 13y ago

"Toutes les grandes amis que je n'ai jamais pu avoir." should be "Toutes les grandes amies que je n'ai jamais pu avoir." or "Tous les grands amis que je n'ai jamais pu avoir." (masculine). And even with the correct grammar, it sounds very awkward. Just sayin'.

derefr 13y ago
Read the bottom half of the book. It's likely a quote in "Jobsian derelict French."

gnufied 13y ago

On anonymous programmers, I respect this guy - Icefrog. Lead designer of Dota2, long time maintainer of Dota1 (And the one who really brought the game to the fore), he even works for Valve but nobody knows who he really is. To certain extent I think remaining anonymous forces you to be humble, which I think can be a good thing, but damn people want to put a name to everything. EDIT: I suspect some people at Valve will at least know who he really is.

lmm 13y ago
Humble is not a word I'd use to describe this stunt. If _why and their readers are having fun then fair play to them, but this is putting more attention on the person and less on what they've done, whereas the truly humble would want the reverse.
- vidarh 13y ago
  Part of the the issue for _why seems to be that he got extremely disillusioned about criticism of his code; criticism he took to heart (in this book he also very explicitly say "I wrote hideous code for years"). So putting more attention on a persona that is thoroughly his own creation, and away from his code, seems to me like he is dismissing the worth of his coding. In fact, I find it quite sad to see how he refers to his code - I admire a lot of what he did. Sure, a lot of it was not great engineering, but it was artful. E.g. Camping is fantastic to read, both for itself and as a sort of practical demonstration of how bloated many frameworks are. It's not that most people would ever have a good reason to use Camping as their web framework, but that to me is besides the point. That said, part of it this whole thing also does seem to be driven by (hurt) pride. I hope he sticks with the writing, though - so far I'm halfway through the PDF, and I love it.
- doki_pen 13y ago
  This is what he's done though. I think that he'd like to be more than a programmer.
oblio 13y ago
About Icefrog - I can't really say anything about his programming skills - I think he must be decent since he optimized the JASS scripts used by the Warcraft 3 engine and he also created tons of fun stuff using it. As a comparison, his predecessor, Guinsoo, had created a map with a 10 minute loading time (!). In Icefrog's reign I don't think any map had a loading time above 1-2 minutes on a decent computer. Anyway, getting back to the topic - I don't know about his strength as a programmer, but I think we could all learn from him as a community leader. Anonymous leader, rallied a lot of people around him (a few other coders, a lot of testers, a TON of contributors), gave Dota a rhythm, a release flow that made Dota huge. You'd play the game knowing that game crashing bugs would be fixed ASAP, that game play balance issues would be resolved, that the next version would make everything just BETTER. A ton of dedication and hard work didn't hurt either :)

Luyt 13y ago

Does anyone have this PDF available for download? (without the need to register first, and without the need for a Facebook account)

iamdave 13y ago
user coffeejunk has since posted one to dropbox: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5575823 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5575823

pervycreeper 13y ago

>84 pages This saga is the height of self-indulgence. I would provisionally explain all the hubbub around _why by the desire to flatter oneself that he can cross the gap between snow's two cultures (cf. apple).

polarix 13y ago
"This saga is the height of self-indulgence." Worth looking in the mirror with a comment like that.
mattmanser 13y ago
I'm not sure what reaction you want to elicit by being so scathing, but I disagree with your assessment as it relies on the premise that programming is a science, which it's not. It's a two headed beast, part science, part craft and _why lives deep in the craft territory. I think many of us here took time to realise that, that there's not just a right answer. When you realise it's a craft you want to be artistic with it, but you can only be with the output, who ever sees the input? In my opinion _why neatly bridges that desire to be artistic with the invisible nature of the craftsmanship of code. It's an outlet that coding can't sate. And it happens by doing that he also taught and helped a lot of people. Have you noticed how a lot of programmers are also musicians? I think that's part of the same desire.
- pervycreeper 13y ago
  There's nothing wrong with combining, say, technical and expressive aims. In a way, that's kind of the holy grail of making stuff. That's not the problem though. I have spent a great deal of time interpreting, appraising, and creating works of art myself, and when I read the OP pdf, pretension and self-absorption ooze through every page. Hollow writing. Whimsical and heartfelt? I say arbitrary and jejune. It's because the community that follows him is so desperate for an existence proof of the above mentioned combination (hey look, we're arty too!), that they neglect to really look at the situation objectively.
  - vidarh 13y ago

coffeejunk 13y ago

Direct link to the pdf: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/8z6j7bju8qx7g7o/WHY_FULL.pdf?token_hash=AAFHqKM5vjJo185d-tm7sv1pC4UXI0LdD4WUBtvy2D4vUg&dl=1 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/8z6j7bju8qx7g7o/WHY_FULL...

Luyt 13y ago
Thank you! A direct link is so more user-friendly than putting a mandatory registration wall before a PDF.

drawkbox 13y ago

Read a good portion of it, he is a good writer. Maybe that is the goal, the writing felt a bit Hunter S. Thompson gonzo style. Funny though that the more of a jerktoaster he became after being known, the longer he will be known, more than most. "I like what you've done with the character..."

iamdave 13y ago
Curious, what about his writing compelled you to draw the comparison to HST?
- drawkbox 13y ago
  Just kind of random, rollercoaster presentation, direct experience intertwined with the overarching theme of withdrawing. The whole thing mentions writers he has read or influential to him so it is rooted in that. I guess it seems like a writing experiment as would HST maybe would do and a next step.

lbolognini 13y ago

_why should read up on Majorana

pmros 13y ago

_why somewhat reminds me of David Foster Wallace.

spinchange 13y ago
the last part of thaumaturgy's comment above ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5576010 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5576010 ) is very similar to how I feel about Wallace's Infinite Jest.

lbolognini 13y ago

I'm reading it now, had to turn the laptop around and people gave me odd looks as I'm in a coffee shop. _why belongs to the line of writers that mastered the "stream of consciousness". Love the little details, the shades of little feelings he describes... reminds me of John Fante. Next month _why don't you read John Fante?

thaumaturgy 13y ago

I think the thing I like about _why -- not that anybody asked -- is that I'm never sure what to think when I'm reading this stuff. Usually I can't get through more than a few sentences of something without judging it: "That was smart, this was insightful, this author is a moron, I don't think that was right, I disagree with that but I'm not bothered by their opinion..." _why really kills that here. I'm never sure if there's a point to what he's writing, if he's playing a joke on people, or if he's playing a character, or if he's being totally and completely honest in an unusual way. I'm not sure if I'm the joke, he's the joke, or if we're sharing a joke. Or if it's not a joke at all and I'm just too stupid to understand. It's really neat.

eob 13y ago
Nicely put. I think that you've really captured what about his writing and persona are so special to the community. I think the sense of sensitivity you feel through his writing adds to that, too. If he's making a joke of you, it's a gentle one. Kind of the yin to Zed Shaw's yang.
- harrisreynolds 13y ago
  I thought of Zed Shaw some when reading these comments too. Definitely different from _why but still comes at things from a different and sometimes bizarre perspective that I like!
patrickdeuley 13y ago
I really like how you put that - it perfectly sums up how I feel about it. I'm never sure exactly what parts he's kidding about (though there are a few obvious ones), but that isn't the point, right? It's a story, and the story and the feeling you get from the story are the point, not specifically what is and isn't true. A lot of people have tried to dissect this way too far and have gotten extremely heated in the process. I would argue that they haven't spent enough time dealing with high art. The artist might have a statement they're making with a certain piece, but ultimately that's unimportant next to what you take away from it. If this speaks to you, if this is meaningful to you, then that is the point. The reaction you take away is precisely what it is, and there's no point in arguing about it - but if you wish to share and revel in the experience, let's collectively appreciate it in that way. I for one found it enthralling. Part of it I know had to do with nostalgia, as I actually was first interested in programming in part by his Poignant guide. The first third or so of the book really reflected that writing style, and I loved it. As it progressed, it got heavier and heavier, and I'm still not sure I understand the allegory he was painting, but the sense I got from it was very clear to me. Some have suggested that it was in reference to his experience in the startup world, and I can buy that, but I feel like there was something there that I probably won't grasp until I wake up in the middle of the night tonight thinking about it. Thanks for telling us one more story _why, wether it's your last or not, I enjoyed it.

sprayk 13y ago

I emailed _why once, asking him how I should cite his name in a highschool project I was working on. Here is his response: You can use my name (why the lucky stiff) and the date of publication (feb 16, 2004 - present) as frequently in your studies as you wish, so long as you keep your grade point average up and you diversify your elective credits with a broad portfolio of subjects. I am specifically hoping you will bask in the study of 1930s Russian absurdist literature. Oberiu is the name of the movement. I will never forget you. Everything made sense after that, and the absurdist part of my world lit class that year.

igravious 13y ago
That is wonderful Sir. How may I cite this HN post of yours? And what subject do you want me to take (remembering that I don't speak a word of Russian).
lbolognini 13y ago
All the time I was reading this I was thinking of Daniil Kharms. The Desert of Forbidden Art also comes to mind... http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1536458/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1536458/ I don't know why but I feel some kind of kinship to _why. And would it be just "us hackers" as a group that have any hope of "getting it"? Are we all alike in this sense? Wouldn't we all find ourselves at home reading Knut Hamsun or Jaroslav Hasek? Aren't we all freaks when we follow ourselves down the rabbit hole? I find comfort in knowing that I'm not alone and that other people are, still, similarly lost.

taylorbuley 13y ago

I've read _why's guide to Ruby but feel out of the loop here. What is this? Why is it significant?

MrUnknown 13y ago
I am not following this nearly as much as everyone else, but I can explain why I am interested in it. _why is more of an artist instead of a programmer, he became popular, wanted to be anonymous (or at least his actions and code be more important than the person) but didn't really hide his identity. Once who he was became semi-popular (an actual name and, I believe, where he worked) he completely deleted his online presence. All of his code, etc. and just disappeared with no mention as to why he did it. Now he is back and telling a story. I see it as a art project he is doing with his alternate identity. The character of _why is just interesting. First we have no idea why he disappeared, now we have no idea why he is reaching out to us. In the end he could say "Drink More Ovaltine," disappear again, and I wouldn't be surprised.
- ep103 13y ago
  But why would he? He's literally turned the internet into his printer. File --> Print --> To Internet. And this way, he can still stay offline.
vosechu_ 13y ago
It's closure for those that took over his projects and for those that worried about his sudden disappearance. http://words.steveklabnik.com/closure http://words.steveklabnik.com/closure

davidcollantes 13y ago

With very few exceptions, all this comes across (to me) as mumbo-jumbo.

coffeejunk 13y ago

It is easy to see _why as "the crazy ruby guy who wrote some scripts and created all this drama around his persona". Even though _why did indeed write some (very useful) programs, I think this view of him misses the point and probably explains why so many people seem to be puzzled by his newest endeavour. Yes, he wrote some Ruby code, but the code was his least important contribution. _why was the first person to actually create art around and about software. Others before him have used software as a tool in their artistic process, but to my knowledge no one has ever taken coding as the subject of a performance art so intricate and beautiful as the character whytheluckystiff. All his scripts, all his writings, even all his quirky animations and songs show a love and passion for coding as a recreational activity that defies our conventional beliefs about software as a craft & industry. We often hear people in this community talk about elegant code, beautiful code, even code as art. But all these sentiments usually mean art in the form of craftsmanship: We want a shorter way to write the same web app, a more expressive way to create our tests, a more concise DSL for data manipulation. While all of these are worthy goals, they are only a tiny, tiny fraction of what coding really is or at least could be. If something doesn't help us build our MVP faster, it's useless to us. Isn't there more to software than that? Sure, there are people focusing on more esoteric stuff in their free time, writing their own Lisps, exploring different data structures, etc. But all of these activities still follow the same tenets: More efficient is better, smaller is better, better is beautiful. We are in love with perfection and purity, because that is what we (necessarily) strive for in our daily work. _why was different. Similar to how the decadent and symbolist movements of the late 19th century popularized "Art for Art's sake", _why devoted his whole opus to "Code for Code's sake". His work as a "freelancer professor" showed how much he cared about children learning programming as an enjoyable activity, not as a way to increase the supply of professional programmers. He also satirized our obsession with exactly this professionalism that tends to creep into our thinking and permeates our culture. In short, he used his character to show us aspects of software that were largely underrepresented or ignored in most mainstream discussions. Personally, reading the poignant guide was the first time I read a piece of code not to understand the code, but to understand a wonderful story. I still don't know how to program in Ruby, but that doesn't matter. In my opinion the poignant guide never really was about Ruby. It was a wonderfully quirky book that happened to be using Ruby as its language. _why's style is absolutely unique and reflects his approach to coding: It doesn't have to be (what we normally consider) beautiful or clean, but it nevertheless forms a great and intricate experience for the reader. Similarly, today was the first time that I regretted not owning a printer. To see new pages suddenly arrive in the tray to form a crazy and beautiful story must have been magical. Even using only a virtual printer it was wonderful to read the new parts of the book as they arrived and this experience alone made it worthwhile for me. The content itself deserves more than just this quick HN comment though. So, if you want to know why so many people seem to enjoy the works of _why, set aside some time and start to dig through his estate of old stuff. Don't try to find something useful, just let the whole strange collection sink in. As is often the case with art, the subjective experience is hard to put into words as it depends so much on your personal context and the context of the artwork. I have definitely done a shoddy job trying to describe what makes _why special for me, I am not even sure it can be adequately put into words. But if you like things that are absurd, sometimes useless, yet strangely beautiful, then take a closer look at this works. Thank you for everything, _why. -- A friend asked me to post this for him.

startswithaj 13y ago

Is the oprah thing he refers to real?

RivieraKid 13y ago
Obviously no.
- egdelwonk 13y ago
  I had to look it up too! Surprisingly "Oprah Jerktoaster" brings back exactly 0 results.
  - vidarh 13y ago
    The part where they all end up dead ought to have been a dead giveaway.
    - startswithaj 13y ago
      I hadn't read that far when I posted the question. Even soo, Oprah's had some pretty wacky guests in her time :)

macarthy12 13y ago

At least _why makes life a little more interesting... And why not.

spur_ous 13y ago

The aspect I enjoy, almost as much as his writing craft, is his presentation craft, any insights into how the 'book' was produced? I'd love to understand better how things like the overbled text were created. A photocopy of laser printed text, then scanned perhaps? The font faces and spacing seem to have been chosen with care, can anyone names the various faces used? guess at the layout software? Then the PCL is some kind of concatenation of page (bitmapped) images I guess?

vidarh 13y ago
> I'd love to understand better how things like the overbled text were created. A photocopy of laser printed text, then scanned perhaps? The typed parts looked like a combination of a typewriter and a low-ish resolution inkjet to me.

kunai 13y ago

_why's site 404'd just now. I hope he's okay.

derefr 13y ago
Well, he did say that he was "returning the character to the public" after the publication of the book, since he "does so enjoy seeing what we all do with it."
raimondious 13y ago
The site 404'd because the performance is over.
unreal37 13y ago
What would a "404 error" have to do with his health?
vosechu_ 13y ago
Some people in the irc room believe that he is doing just fine; that this was an event to ensure that the character/role _why is returned to the public domain in an orderly manner. The original maintainer of the _why persona appears to be doing okay and in good spirits. He gave people combs and a triumph message on the website.

derefr 13y ago

Fun moments for me: - The thematic element of wishing that the reader not follow the "references" in the work--the iPhone smackdown, and later more clearly with the SACRED CLOWNS--leading later namedrops to pass without question. (In a strange way, it almost feels like the urge to look them up was similar to an urge to vomit: it has passed, and now I feel better.) - Slipping into Inform 7 to actually tell a story. I almost wanted to paste it into an interpreter--it's valid Inform code--but it's more powerful as narrative, and more powerful in the narrative because of its structure. In the moment where he lost momentum and looked around for a next step, the world "branched out" into a space composed of choices. This is the one more little attempt to show people what "code as art" can mean. - The realization that (possible spoilers) the last third of the book is the story of how he found himself working at a start-up. His reactions in-narrative mirror his comment earlier in the work that he's "learning to get over his hatred of entrepreneurs." --- On the whole, a very coherent story. If you're having trouble making sense of it, make sure to interpret all the "deaths" in the story as death of identity, rather than physical death. Losing a job is death; breaking the social contract of a character is death; etc. And now, the site is down, and the _why identity is dead once more. (And on a melancholic, perhaps overly-personal note: I do so wish that I could be friends with that man. Not the identity, just the man. Talking about The Happening would be fine.)

curiousdannii 13y ago
It was interesting to see Inform 7 source for its own sake, rather than for what it compiles to (which in this case would be filled with non sequiturs.)
waxpancake 13y ago
I OCRed the Inform 7 code and added it to Playfic: http://playfic.com/games/waxpancake/sacred-clowns-by-why-the-lucky-stiff http://playfic.com/games/waxpancake/sacred-clowns-by-why-the...

parnas 13y ago

I'm sorry.. I don't understand the fanatical devotion and sacrifice(for example, having a nervous breakdown, or leaving a job for some startup when you've got wife and family because of devotion to the python community) for scripting languages that are all more-or-less the same +- curly braces as ruby/python/perl/php/C whatever. Look for something else to be interested in--OCaml and F#.

pekk 13y ago
Languages don't matter, so use OCaml and F#. What?

phren0logy 13y ago

Printing a book as a print spool, including a self-referential handwritten program to print the spool? If you don't think this is fun, I just don't know what to tell you. Speaking purely for myself, the absurdist nature of _why's work is part of the fun. The feeling of being a little bit confused but enjoying the moment is why I find programming interesting in the first place. Keep up the great work _why!

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

philwelch 13y ago

This could be just the first part--remember that the last page was called NOTYET and shows a hand covering a handwritten journal page, implying that the story of why's escape from the Jobsians (which you can barely make out between his fingers) will be published in the future.

lbolognini 13y ago
The Jobsians thing is brilliant. I was laughing all the time as I was reading that part. If you've noticed they also only have 3 fingers, like chickens.

Trano 13y ago

For anyone who missed this yesterday like I did, _why's site was updated yesterday but is now back offline. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5571387 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5571387 shows the progress of figuring out what was happening. Basically he was sending out print commands to print the book that is linked here.

wbhart 13y ago

I only have questions, and _why is only one of them. The two burning ones for me are to what extent is he deliberate with the role his persona plays and to what extent are individuals trying to take a stab at what they think his role is, in the vain hope that he will take up the role again, having been given new direction by their witty proposal? (Easier to feel good about someone's role when they aren't disappeared. And let's face it, everyone is secretly itching to points whore all the forums with "_why is back!") And secondly, what did he mean that it is dangerous to come to us in this way? Are printer spools dangerous, or is he worried about the effect of the publicity on the person(a). Or is it dangerous for us? Has it really taken a year? Seems like forever and just a few days!

jacquesm 13y ago
The guy is just really good at implementing one of the rules of PT Barnum: "Always keep them wanting more".

timcederman 13y ago

Did anyone else try going to the YouTube video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShpcjWG_Me0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShpcjWG_Me0

afics 13y ago
hm, i thought the last letter was an O. I get "This video is not available." using the following id. ShpcjWG_MeO

yathern 13y ago

On page 58, there is more text that can be seen through the partially transparent page. I messed around with it trying to find the right amount of blur and noise removal and various effects on it to make the text most readable, and this is what I came out with: http://i.imgur.com/CyyWWBR.png http://i.imgur.com/CyyWWBR.png It looks like the title is "A-Power-Plant". This leads me to believe that this section of the book has been printed out, laid on top of another book and scanned, so that it looks like a full book. Does anyone know what book it might be on top of?

vosechu_ 13y ago
Maybe this? http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/a-power-plant/ http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/a-power-plant/
- yathern 13y ago
  Definitely. I was thinking the second word was "invisible" to begin with.

cag_ii 13y ago

It looks like a big commit was just made to the site repo... New site? https://github.com/cwales/cwales.github.com https://github.com/cwales/cwales.github.com

KVFinn 13y ago

In the original, pages were individually titled. The title was often quite relevant. Can you add that to the top or bottom of each page?

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

tetsuo_shima 13y ago

It may be my own feelings and so forth, but I vote that comments are disabled on this network. It's getting way out of control, quality of the network exponentially deteriorating, and far too much blatant disrespect without regard, perpetuating the same cycles of melancholia for any of those individuals who are genuinely interested in understanding. For those who feel the need to be correct, the need to correct, the need to justify, the need to express their own opinions on behalf of the though of an other, for those who have yet to understand that they as themselves are not the constitution of thought of all of those who are an other independent of the self, for those who simply cannot simply recognize any/all realizations, for those who require conclusions, for those who wish to change the order of the world, for those who cannot be bothered with interaction that may oppose their own desire, etc., please leave this network. Please. I beg of you to leave. I beg of you to leave and return when you've lost the ability to use express your opinion in the forefront of others, when you've come to understand that every interact between your self and an other affects the experience and understanding of others, when you've come to understand, when you've learned to listen, when you've learned to reason, when you've learned your own language, when you've learned your own self, and finally, when you've learned an other relatively independent of others in relation to your selves. The amount of hatred in the world is enough to drive anyone insane, why bring it to a network full of though-thirsty individuals who simply wish to share other understands? I may be delusional in my expression of cordiality, though I only wish that this madness stops. Why I have even bothered to make an account to share my own realization? The network is unique in its own right, and very difficult to find such a large group of like-minds. The more I visit, the further such ideals deviate from the truth, and it's disturbing. Quite a lot of this is clearly addressed in _why's seemingly random queue, but that's not the point. The point is [TL;DR;DC;WC;] Your opinions are going to change. If they don't, you're likely cheating yourself, and respectively others. Please find it in your minds to enjoy the thought of one another. ---- For those of you on your high-horse of supreme divinity and fortitude, I sincerely hope you come find your self humbled by your self. Kind regards, <Let's pretend it matters>

obviouslygreen 13y ago

I really don't understand the uproar and significance here. I read through the book because I figured there'd be something insightful, interesting, or explanatory in there. There basically isn't. If it's just supposed to be art -- some kind of odd, disjointed story for its own sake -- then at least that's something, even if I didn't really care much for it. I do like some of the presentation. The print queue thing is clever, and the variety of scans/handwriting/printing in the work, where it's not a hindrance to reading, is fun (I can see that the hindrance is part of the work, but it still comes off as obnoxious to me). Still, it leaves me wondering: Why do people care about this? It's some guy that believed he wasn't a good programmer, stopped programming, went AWOL from the internet, was happy about it, and then apparently wrote some sort of strange fiction. OK, whatever floats your boat, but usually these fads pass. This one just won't go away, even though going away is exactly what the author did (or, arguably, is continuously failing to do). Do those of you getting high on this see it as some kind of existential statement or puzzle? I think way too much is being read into the whole thing.

MrBra 13y ago

someone with free time, and will and/or passion or interest for languages please translate it to other popular languages please

pathdependent 13y ago

This was a great experience. It felt like a modern take on Principia Discordia. Thanks, _why.

moeedm 13y ago

He's the Daft Punk of the Ruby world.

sfcgeorge 13y ago

I wrote a little blog post in tribute to why, "Nobody Knows Why": http://www.sfcgeorge.co.uk/posts/2013/04/19/nobody-knows-why http://www.sfcgeorge.co.uk/posts/2013/04/19/nobody-knows-why The post also links to an updated PDF compendium of all _why's recent documents. All rotated and in the correct order (maybe). Bursting with _whyness.

charlieflowers 13y ago

Why the Lucky Stiff is brilliant, so much so he is completely strange. But you can see the brilliance a mile away. His Ruby comics were technically brilliant and artistically brilliant at the same time, and they did both effortlessly. When someone blows you away with real ability, and does it while juggling apples and telling dirty jokes, without breaking a sweat, it (rightfully so) makes an impression. Plus, BACON!

gcr 13y ago

Does anyone know what was up with the paypal link a few commits back?

sorghum 13y ago
A few people (myself included) tried to use it while it was up and everyone had their payment refunded soon after.
- gcr 13y ago
  Same thing happened to me. Sent the account $20 and it was refunded about an hour later. I mean, I'm more than happy to support this. _why could make one hell of a kickstarter, if he wanted to.

pax 13y ago

still no rapgenius version :/ is there anywhere any explanatory review of this?

dhotson 13y ago

Welcome back _why. I had a feeling we'd see you again. :-)