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The Boston Globe ‏@BostonGlobe 34s BREAKING NEWS: Police getting multiple reports of unexploded devices around Boston 3.38 pm Central time. Update: The Bost

The Boston Globe ‏@BostonGlobe 34s BREAKING NEWS: Police getting multiple reports of unexploded devices around Boston 3.38 pm Central time. Update: The Boston Globe ‏@BostonGlobe 28s RT @billy_baker: "It's not safe to be here." - Boston Police evacuating Commonwealth Avenue mall at Gloucester. 3.45 Central time. Update: The Boston Globe ‏@BostonGlobe 1m Boston Police: If anyone knows of any information call about explosions: 1 800 494 TIPS 3.55 Central time. Holy crap! UPDATE: Apparently cellphone service is SHUT DOWN! To make sure new devices are not remotely detonated! http://bigstory.ap.org/article/official-cellphone-service-shut-down-boston http://bigstory.ap.org/article/official-cellphone-service-sh... 4.10 PM Central Time!

lifeguard 13y ago
Expect numerous false positives for the next few months.
- optiminimalist 13y ago
  Better false positives than false negatives.
  - lifeguard 13y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_benefit_analysis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_benefit_analysis
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
    - yew 13y ago
      Don't be silly. No one ever does that in a crisis. They just spout platitudes about 'doing everything possible' and never stop to think about what that actually means. And if you point out the implications someone will quickly follow up by assuring you that 'no one would ever do that'. Sometimes I think the greatest weakness of policymakers is the delusion that other policymakers believe what they believe, and for the same reasons.
      - lifeguard 13y ago
        The army, FEMA, the Red Cross, EMT doctrines; they all teach cost benefit analysis in emergency decision making.
        nwzpaperman 13y ago
        Triage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triage
VLM 13y ago
The thing I don't get, is if you know there are multiple devices, any opfor with half a brain is going to put them in the mass transit for follow up. So why evac people when sheltering in place is almost certainly safer? The TLDR is don't create a juicy concentrated target when you know for certain that someone is currently aiming at juicy concentrated targets. Also if its an ongoing event, shelter in place means people pay pretty close attention to their environment, but scrambling in terror every random direction means a great opportunity for the opfor to drop something bad in the chaos and possibly escape. I'm not saying lock down everyone for hours (days?) or don't evac a known bad location, but...
- taurath 13y ago
  Transit is much harder and has a much stronger security presence - people in general are also far more alert for suspicious packages. It would be much tougher I'd think to get something like this onto a subway rather than a huge crowd.
  - VLM 13y ago
    Whoops I looked it up and apparently a "mall" in boston is what the rest of the world would call a boulevard or parkway. So they're actually evac a street lined with trees. My worry was it they're shoving people in immense lines thru the doors of what the rest of the world would call a "mall" making a tempting target for the opfor. I am surprised its verified to be packages and not dudes wearing vests or whatever. There's no way to avoid the issue that getting the crowd to stampede means certain targets of opportunity will be very busy. If I were in Boston there's no way in hell I'd set foot on any mass transit until the evac is over. The original point still stands, that people mostly sittin down can't get into too much mischief, "everybody get up and run around" results in huge opportunity for chaos, because not just the good guys, but the bad guys too will be up and running around.
    - hartror 13y ago
      Actually Boston uses "mall" in the same way as the English and Australians.
VLM 13y ago
"Apparently cellphone service is SHUT DOWN! To make sure new devices are not remotely detonated!" Oh no. This has been done a lot of times recently and all it means is future devices are going to be designed to go off when service is lost. Like every time you get a text message the 10 minute "reset" button is shorted. On the bright side AT&T outages are now a feature not a bug as they make constructing and transporting devices like this very exciting for the bad guys.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  That seems like an overly complicated way of doing something that could just be done with a timer. (I don't mean to provide tips of any sort, but that seems kind of obvious to me.)
  - gavinlynch 13y ago
    You are correct. This is a very common scenario. The trigger is the cell phone's vibration motor, which is removed so the IED can be connected to the phone. A timer is set, the signal to the motor is sent and activates the trigger, entirely without the use of radio waves and obviously without needing a cell tower.
  - VLM 13y ago
    I'd disagree in that: 1) No signal = the primaries have gone off and the area is swarming with panic evacuees and rescue personnel and full of news cameras = almost the definition of the perfect time for the secondaries to go off. 2) If the purpose of the attack is terror, what better way than shutting off communications then creating an intense demand for communications? And you get to make the authorities feel guilty about it? 3) This also fits in with jammer mentality. So if a jammer protects against IEDs, the obvious counter response is a weapon against jammers. So next year's run, if there is one, will have a motorcycle pace vehicle with a very highly publicized jammer mounted on it for the purpose of security theater, the pace cycle/jammer rides past the trivial to imagine and design jammer detector, and ... It all boils down to I can't figure out a realistic alternative way for the good guys to help the bad guys more effectively than shutting down the cell network.
- 13y ago
tptacek 13y ago
Has any named official confirmed the cell service shutdown? I'm hearing the opposite. The original shutdown report I heard was attributed to an unnamed BPD source. This is obviously a particularly easy rumor to spread when the networks are all jammed up with callers.
- garretruh 13y ago
  You might be right. It's contradicted by both Sprint and Verizon here: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/official-cellphone-service-shut-down-boston http://bigstory.ap.org/article/official-cellphone-service-sh... Edit: And, it seems, AT&T: https://twitter.com/ATT/status/323915702132150272 https://twitter.com/ATT/status/323915702132150272
  - mbreese 13y ago
    NBC just reported that AT&T was urging people to use text messages to avoid congestion on their network. So, it's probably a capacity issue.
  - andrewhillman 13y ago
    I live in Boston. Mobile service is running.
  - thadk 13y ago
    You can locally jam cell phone frequencies without involving the operators--seems like that'd be default bomb squad kit. I was along the racetrack at mile 23 and signal and data were extremely poor starting 10-15 minutes after the event--The local cells of the network could also have been simply overloaded.
- oasisbob 13y ago
  The AP has walked back that article -- headline now reads "Cellphone use heavy, but still operating in Boston". I don't see any note of a retraction or correction. Anyone know of any good resources to explain when news organizations find it ethical to transparently change articles like this, and when it isn't?
GeorgeTirebiter 13y ago
A simple request: could we keep the timeline in Eastern time? Thank you.
spitx 13y ago
NBCNEWS: "Boston police say there was no specific intelligence warning of any kind of attack, and federal officials tonight say there is no reason to think that this is part of any larger threat. At this point they believe it is confined to Boston, but a meeting tonight will decide whether any kind of national alert will be sent out. There is no suspect in custody, authorities say, but some people are being questioned, including some with injuries who were taken to Boston hospitals. One of those, a person in whom there is some interest, is a young person who was here on a student visa," NBC reports. Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOcYcEkxzvg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOcYcEkxzvg Update: 7:30 P.M. EST Pete Williams (NBC News): "Has burns and seen running from the area" "Being aggressively questioned now."
- damncabbage 13y ago
  "One of those, a person in whom there is some interest, is a young person who was here on a student visa," "Being aggressively questioned now." I hope this is just NBC News being over the top.
- flyinRyan 13y ago
  >"Being aggressively questioned now." I hope this isn't PC for "being tortured".
- lifeguard 13y ago
  The Saudi student was cleared.
sammyo 13y ago
Cell service was really bad for an hour after the explosion. My wife has an older clamshell phone that seemed harder to connect I expect due to the absence of newer 3G frequencies. Not getting a signal make one very nervous at a time like that.

lifeguard 13y ago

Expect numerous false positives for the next few months.

optiminimalist 13y ago
Better false positives than false negatives.
- lifeguard 13y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_benefit_analysis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_benefit_analysis
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - yew 13y ago
    Don't be silly. No one ever does that in a crisis. They just spout platitudes about 'doing everything possible' and never stop to think about what that actually means. And if you point out the implications someone will quickly follow up by assuring you that 'no one would ever do that'. Sometimes I think the greatest weakness of policymakers is the delusion that other policymakers believe what they believe, and for the same reasons.
    - lifeguard 13y ago
      The army, FEMA, the Red Cross, EMT doctrines; they all teach cost benefit analysis in emergency decision making.
      - nwzpaperman 13y ago
        Triage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triage http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triage

VLM 13y ago

The thing I don't get, is if you know there are multiple devices, any opfor with half a brain is going to put them in the mass transit for follow up. So why evac people when sheltering in place is almost certainly safer? The TLDR is don't create a juicy concentrated target when you know for certain that someone is currently aiming at juicy concentrated targets. Also if its an ongoing event, shelter in place means people pay pretty close attention to their environment, but scrambling in terror every random direction means a great opportunity for the opfor to drop something bad in the chaos and possibly escape. I'm not saying lock down everyone for hours (days?) or don't evac a known bad location, but...

taurath 13y ago
Transit is much harder and has a much stronger security presence - people in general are also far more alert for suspicious packages. It would be much tougher I'd think to get something like this onto a subway rather than a huge crowd.
- VLM 13y ago
  Whoops I looked it up and apparently a "mall" in boston is what the rest of the world would call a boulevard or parkway. So they're actually evac a street lined with trees. My worry was it they're shoving people in immense lines thru the doors of what the rest of the world would call a "mall" making a tempting target for the opfor. I am surprised its verified to be packages and not dudes wearing vests or whatever. There's no way to avoid the issue that getting the crowd to stampede means certain targets of opportunity will be very busy. If I were in Boston there's no way in hell I'd set foot on any mass transit until the evac is over. The original point still stands, that people mostly sittin down can't get into too much mischief, "everybody get up and run around" results in huge opportunity for chaos, because not just the good guys, but the bad guys too will be up and running around.
  - hartror 13y ago
    Actually Boston uses "mall" in the same way as the English and Australians.

VLM 13y ago

"Apparently cellphone service is SHUT DOWN! To make sure new devices are not remotely detonated!" Oh no. This has been done a lot of times recently and all it means is future devices are going to be designed to go off when service is lost. Like every time you get a text message the 10 minute "reset" button is shorted. On the bright side AT&T outages are now a feature not a bug as they make constructing and transporting devices like this very exciting for the bad guys.

jlgreco 13y ago
That seems like an overly complicated way of doing something that could just be done with a timer. (I don't mean to provide tips of any sort, but that seems kind of obvious to me.)
- gavinlynch 13y ago
  You are correct. This is a very common scenario. The trigger is the cell phone's vibration motor, which is removed so the IED can be connected to the phone. A timer is set, the signal to the motor is sent and activates the trigger, entirely without the use of radio waves and obviously without needing a cell tower.
- VLM 13y ago
  I'd disagree in that: 1) No signal = the primaries have gone off and the area is swarming with panic evacuees and rescue personnel and full of news cameras = almost the definition of the perfect time for the secondaries to go off. 2) If the purpose of the attack is terror, what better way than shutting off communications then creating an intense demand for communications? And you get to make the authorities feel guilty about it? 3) This also fits in with jammer mentality. So if a jammer protects against IEDs, the obvious counter response is a weapon against jammers. So next year's run, if there is one, will have a motorcycle pace vehicle with a very highly publicized jammer mounted on it for the purpose of security theater, the pace cycle/jammer rides past the trivial to imagine and design jammer detector, and ... It all boils down to I can't figure out a realistic alternative way for the good guys to help the bad guys more effectively than shutting down the cell network.
13y ago

tptacek 13y ago

Has any named official confirmed the cell service shutdown? I'm hearing the opposite. The original shutdown report I heard was attributed to an unnamed BPD source. This is obviously a particularly easy rumor to spread when the networks are all jammed up with callers.

garretruh 13y ago
You might be right. It's contradicted by both Sprint and Verizon here: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/official-cellphone-service-shut-down-boston http://bigstory.ap.org/article/official-cellphone-service-sh... Edit: And, it seems, AT&T: https://twitter.com/ATT/status/323915702132150272 https://twitter.com/ATT/status/323915702132150272
- mbreese 13y ago
  NBC just reported that AT&T was urging people to use text messages to avoid congestion on their network. So, it's probably a capacity issue.
- andrewhillman 13y ago
  I live in Boston. Mobile service is running.
- thadk 13y ago
  You can locally jam cell phone frequencies without involving the operators--seems like that'd be default bomb squad kit. I was along the racetrack at mile 23 and signal and data were extremely poor starting 10-15 minutes after the event--The local cells of the network could also have been simply overloaded.
oasisbob 13y ago
The AP has walked back that article -- headline now reads "Cellphone use heavy, but still operating in Boston". I don't see any note of a retraction or correction. Anyone know of any good resources to explain when news organizations find it ethical to transparently change articles like this, and when it isn't?

GeorgeTirebiter 13y ago

A simple request: could we keep the timeline in Eastern time? Thank you.

spitx 13y ago

NBCNEWS: "Boston police say there was no specific intelligence warning of any kind of attack, and federal officials tonight say there is no reason to think that this is part of any larger threat. At this point they believe it is confined to Boston, but a meeting tonight will decide whether any kind of national alert will be sent out. There is no suspect in custody, authorities say, but some people are being questioned, including some with injuries who were taken to Boston hospitals. One of those, a person in whom there is some interest, is a young person who was here on a student visa," NBC reports. Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOcYcEkxzvg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOcYcEkxzvg Update: 7:30 P.M. EST Pete Williams (NBC News): "Has burns and seen running from the area" "Being aggressively questioned now."

damncabbage 13y ago
"One of those, a person in whom there is some interest, is a young person who was here on a student visa," "Being aggressively questioned now." I hope this is just NBC News being over the top.
flyinRyan 13y ago
>"Being aggressively questioned now." I hope this isn't PC for "being tortured".
lifeguard 13y ago
The Saudi student was cleared.

sammyo 13y ago

Cell service was really bad for an hour after the explosion. My wife has an older clamshell phone that seemed harder to connect I expect due to the absence of newer 3G frequencies. Not getting a signal make one very nervous at a time like that.