9 ms·

There's an interesting blurb in the following (bottom of the fifth page in the PDF): https://www.nsa.gov/public_info/_files/cryptologs/cryptolog_135.pdf https:

There's an interesting blurb in the following (bottom of the fifth page in the PDF): https://www.nsa.gov/public_info/_files/cryptologs/cryptolog_135.pdf https://www.nsa.gov/public_info/_files/cryptologs/cryptolog_... "In today's Age, the public has centered in on government as "the problem." Specifically, the focus is on the potential abuse of the Government's applications of this new information technology that will result in an invasion of personal privacy. For us, this is difficult to understand. We are "the government," and we have no interest in invading the personal privacy of U.S. citizens." This attitude is similar to Bill Binney's (in that U.S. citizens are off-limits due to FISA)[1]. I presume he wasn't the only person within the NSA who felt like that…and I can't help but wonder what the internal dialog is like these days. 1: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/05/23/110523fa_fact_mayer?currentPage=all http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/05/23/110523fa_fact_...

joshuahedlund 14y ago
> We are "the government," and we have no interest in invading the personal privacy of U.S. citizens. That is interesting. That may be true for the people who made that statement, though it's hard to guarantee it for anyone who has ever or will ever have access to NSA information. You don't have to believe in a nefarious Big Brother to be concerned about the perhaps inevitable potential for mistakes or abuse by some individuals behind "Government's applications of new information technology". History offers plenty of examples, after all.
- rdtsc 14y ago
  The explanation is simple for me. They have brainwashed themselves. One of the most selective criteria for working there is patriotism and unquestioned loyalty to the country, this includes people who love and swear they support the Constitution. So how do they end up sucking up tons of data from all over the internet, filtering and storing it (which includes private data of US citizens) -- easy, it is justified as fighting terrorism and protecting our country. There is a story one needs to tell oneself continuously in order to maintain and support this brainwashing. These are stories that NSA tells itself (public is concerned but they have nothing to worry, we know we don't want to harm them, we are here to protect them). Pretty sure if you asked those who conducted tortured at the CIA, they'd also tell you they are devout patriots and did what the did to protect the Country, the Constitution, the Flag and everything that stands behind it.
  - dfc 14y ago
    "One of the most selective criteria for working there is patriotism and unquestioned loyalty to the country, this includes people who love and swear they support the Constitution." Did you work in HR at NSA/CIA or is this how you guess things work?
    - neilc 14y ago
      The basic criteria for getting a job at the NSA is public knowledge (https://www.nsa.gov/careers/jobs_search_apply/hirerequire.shtml https://www.nsa.gov/careers/jobs_search_apply/hirerequire.sh...): The background investigation helps determine the applicant's honesty, trustworthiness, reliability, discretion, and unquestioned loyalty to the United States.
      - dfc 14y ago
        I have seen NSA's recruiting information a couple times in the past. Can you highlight the bit that says which criteria is the most selective?
        igravious 14y ago
        Stop being obtuse. unquestioned loyalty to the United States. As soon as one stops questioning ones reasoning gets selective and biased.
        dfc 14y ago
        What am I being obtuse about and why are you talking about selective and biased reasoning? The aspect of the comment I was responding to was "One of the most selective criteria." Do you know what the most selective hiring criteria is for TS/SCI work?
        rdtsc 14y ago
        Instead of beating around the bush, why don't you tell us what agency you work for, what department and what is the most selective criteria to TS work.
- liotier 14y ago
  Potential abusers are not only individuals - even if the current government was mostly harmless, there is no guarantee that it will still be as nice fifteen years later : tyranny sometimes rises fast and with no warning. So even with a theoretical perfectly benevolent government, privacy restrictions are necessary to slow down the hypothetical rise of tyranny - be it individual tyranny or government-wide tyranny.

joshuahedlund 14y ago

> We are "the government," and we have no interest in invading the personal privacy of U.S. citizens. That is interesting. That may be true for the people who made that statement, though it's hard to guarantee it for anyone who has ever or will ever have access to NSA information. You don't have to believe in a nefarious Big Brother to be concerned about the perhaps inevitable potential for mistakes or abuse by some individuals behind "Government's applications of new information technology". History offers plenty of examples, after all.

rdtsc 14y ago
The explanation is simple for me. They have brainwashed themselves. One of the most selective criteria for working there is patriotism and unquestioned loyalty to the country, this includes people who love and swear they support the Constitution. So how do they end up sucking up tons of data from all over the internet, filtering and storing it (which includes private data of US citizens) -- easy, it is justified as fighting terrorism and protecting our country. There is a story one needs to tell oneself continuously in order to maintain and support this brainwashing. These are stories that NSA tells itself (public is concerned but they have nothing to worry, we know we don't want to harm them, we are here to protect them). Pretty sure if you asked those who conducted tortured at the CIA, they'd also tell you they are devout patriots and did what the did to protect the Country, the Constitution, the Flag and everything that stands behind it.
- dfc 14y ago
  "One of the most selective criteria for working there is patriotism and unquestioned loyalty to the country, this includes people who love and swear they support the Constitution." Did you work in HR at NSA/CIA or is this how you guess things work?
  - neilc 14y ago
    The basic criteria for getting a job at the NSA is public knowledge (https://www.nsa.gov/careers/jobs_search_apply/hirerequire.shtml https://www.nsa.gov/careers/jobs_search_apply/hirerequire.sh...): The background investigation helps determine the applicant's honesty, trustworthiness, reliability, discretion, and unquestioned loyalty to the United States.
    - dfc 14y ago
      I have seen NSA's recruiting information a couple times in the past. Can you highlight the bit that says which criteria is the most selective?
      - igravious 14y ago
        Stop being obtuse. unquestioned loyalty to the United States. As soon as one stops questioning ones reasoning gets selective and biased.
        dfc 14y ago
        What am I being obtuse about and why are you talking about selective and biased reasoning? The aspect of the comment I was responding to was "One of the most selective criteria." Do you know what the most selective hiring criteria is for TS/SCI work?
        rdtsc 14y ago
        Instead of beating around the bush, why don't you tell us what agency you work for, what department and what is the most selective criteria to TS work.
liotier 14y ago
Potential abusers are not only individuals - even if the current government was mostly harmless, there is no guarantee that it will still be as nice fifteen years later : tyranny sometimes rises fast and with no warning. So even with a theoretical perfectly benevolent government, privacy restrictions are necessary to slow down the hypothetical rise of tyranny - be it individual tyranny or government-wide tyranny.