7 ms·

Why (or why not) to move your company to Amsterdam

49 points by inbys 14y ago

nirvana 14y ago
If you run a successful business in holland, and pay yourself a salary out of it, your tax rate is over %70! And on top of that, you have %20 VAT. And this isn't even going into the manifold fees and other types of taxes you are subjected to. ------------------------------- This comment is not spam. It had a nice positive score until the socialists arrived. Of course, socialists being unable to deal with reality (or history!) must censor those who point out simple facts that undermine their ideology. And so this comment has been downvoted to obscurity (-15 at this moment) to make it less likely others would be made aware of the high tax rates in holland. This kind of dishonesty and censorship is why you can't have fruitful discussion on hacker news. The site is overrun by ideologues and moderated by ideologues and anything that doesn't strictly toe to the fascist modern ideology gets the boot. Ok, just accept, though, that you're anti-intellectual in a very profound way. When you can't tolerate people stating inconvenient facts, it's time to admit you're an intellectual coward. Frankly, I think you're all shit. You've elected a guy who claims he has the right to kill any american with a drone strike, in america, without any due process. And you're so proud of it! It's astounding. You should be ashamed. Profoundly ashamed. But know this, it is your cowardice and intellectual dishonesty that caused the state of affairs we find ourselves in. Run away to amsterdam if you like, see how long it remains nice.
- netrus 14y ago
  20% of your net income, so it's half as bad :) Plus, if your cool startup should not succeed and you get ill: Don't worry, everything will be fine :)
  - nirvana 14y ago
    Milton Friedman did a study of healthcare in the USA, and found that the government "help" had driven up the cost 26fold and driven down availability. Or put another way, the reason people could get bankrupted by an illness is socialized medicine, and it's also the reason they might not be able to find care when they need it. Contrary to what Obama says, socialism doesn't work, and if you think you'll get better healthcare in the NL than in the USA, you'll have a very rude awakening... but of course you won't be alive to post your mea culpas here on HN. Frankly, even assuming this shows a profound ignorance of both history and economics.
    - mtrimpe 14y ago
      You, my friend, seem to be having mental health issues. We have an excellent support system for that in the Netherlands if you're interested...
      - digitalengineer 14y ago
        Let's add a little balance: Health care in the us can be excellent and yes, better than in the Netherlands. (I'm Dutch by the way and have friends who have flown to the us specifically for healt-related issues. There are stories in the media here about communities saving for sick kids so they can get help in the US. The US is at the forefront of health). However this excellent care is only available for people who can afford it. In the Netherlands they'll help anyone and they won't ask you for your credit card. No one goes bankrupt because they got ill and needed an operation. Downside of this is they can't help everyone right away and you need to wait some time before it's your turn. I had a nice talk about this with a surgeon for about two hours as he and his team were inserting four big metal tubes in my eye,draind all the fluid before puming it back up again with air and freezing the tissue back together again from the inside. At the end of the year I paid about $350 bucks and got my eysight back. The 350 bucks included all my ckeckup visits.
    - dguaraglia 14y ago
      Milton Friedman is so full of corporate interest, you can probably make two senators out of him. Seriously, explain how health care in any other 'socialist country' is way cheaper than in the US if government investment drives prices up. I dare you.
- bvdbijl 14y ago
  You can't just add percentages like that...
- inbys 14y ago
  Tax rates in continental Europe can indeed be steep compared to UK and US. In the Netherlands the top rate is 'only' 52%, not 70%. Most people, especially company owners, pay much less.
  - yread 14y ago
    Yep. And only the income above ~ €56,491 will be taxed by 52% so your average tax rate will be much lower
    - dlib 14y ago
      Especially since the rent on your mortgage is deductible. Adding to that, expats have extra tax discounts (30% ruling).
- walshemj 14y ago
  Why would you include corp taxes in that. I looked at Amsterdam as a move and it was about the same as the UK and other European states, and as I have the max years in for the uk pension scheme I was temped to move to Holland to buildup a second pension there. The lack of a VCT's, CGT exemption and taper relief is an issue for smaller investors - Seems to me that the ducth have a lot of german style Mittelstand companies and cgt/taxsystems is trageted at that . and the 30% rule ie 30% of you salary is disregarded for 10 years for migrant workers is an amazing tax break(http://www.expatax.nl/30ruling.php#.UTnYdjfRqE8 http://www.expatax.nl/30ruling.php#.UTnYdjfRqE8)
  - nirvana 14y ago
    Ok, so you don't pay %50 on 1/3rd of your salary for 10 years. I wouldn't exactly call that "an amazing tax break". You're still paying way too much in taxes.
    - ako 14y ago
      Depends on what you get in return...
    - walshemj 14y ago
      um you do know how to calculate % do you this is effectively adding 30% tax free to the base you do not get taxed at 52% on all the rest you still have the tired tax rates as well as the 30% And by that time id have moved back to the UK :-)
  - mtrimpe 14y ago
    Also, if you're Dutch, entrepreneurial and working in IT you will usually be a freelancer. That means that you get to deduct expenses on working equipments, business lunches, hosting, travel costs, etc. On top of that if you're in an innovative industry you'll get another €20k or so tax deduction (WBSO & RDA.) In general that means that for innovative entrepreneurs it's fairly easy to get to an effective tax rate of about 10%.
- ddbryant 14y ago
  Let's not make up numbers... Income tax is high here (not 70%) but you know, you get what you pay for. If you're American the 30% rule kicks in as long as you are here on a dutch american treaty visa or sponsored by a company. Any American can start a company here and get a 1 year visa. That's a pretty low barrier or entry compared to most countries. Corporate tax is also incredibly low, with a ton of benefits for the first 3 years you are a b.v. (dutch corp)
  - nirvana 14y ago
    Those aren't made up numbers. I actually did the math based on my income. How about you stop being a dishonest coward who characterizes your opponent, rather than making an argument, hmm? You don't get what you pay for, of course, if you bothered to actually add up what you really do pay, and what you really do get, but then that is the essential swindle isn't it? You and all the rest of the thieves like to pretend like it's better to pay government $20,000 a year for services the free market would happily deliver for $20. And then you act as if those of us who point out we're getting ripped off are "greedy", or in your case-- dishonest. Well, if you have to lie to make an argument, that tells me even you know your argument is the suck.
    - mryan 14y ago
      Would you be interested in posting the numbers you used for your calculations? I appreciate it is confidential information, but I find it very difficult to believe your tax rate is 70%. If you are in fact paying 70% of your income in taxes, I can recommend an accountant who can advise on a more efficient tax strategy. I would prefer it if you didn't reply and call me a socialist, or complain that I am dishonest - I have no horse in this race, I am merely pointing out that if you are in fact paying 70% tax, you could save a lot of money by talking to an accountant who specialises in tax efficiency.
    - meepmorp 14y ago
      > How about you stop being a dishonest coward who characterizes your opponent Ahem.
  - 14y ago
- jfb 14y ago
  You should learn what a marginal tax rate is.
  - nirvana 14y ago
    You should learn to think.
- __--__ 14y ago
  Why all the hostility? People are asking you where you got your numbers, which is reasonable considering your comment provided two percentages and nothing else. Your unwillingness to back up your opinions with facts that we can check and verify marks you as an intellectual coward as well. Stop calling the commenters names and engage in the conversation, please. I'd also like to know where your numbers are coming from, since I'm in the middle of deciding where to found my first company and any information that strays away from what is popular tends to get my attention.
pogosian 14y ago
Do they have some sort of startup visa in Netherlands? Something like UK's Tier 1 Entrepreneur perhaps?
- digitalengineer 14y ago
  Even better, according to the guys at Appsterdam there's this piece of law created after WW2 where anyone from the US can start their own company in Holland. USA citizens can apply for a Dutch residence permit to be self-employed or operate their business in the Netherlands. They can also sponsor their married partners and minor children for residence. http://www.expatlaw.nl/dutch_american_friendship_treaty.htm http://www.expatlaw.nl/dutch_american_friendship_treaty.htm
  - mtrimpe 14y ago
    And we also have a classic entrepreneurs visa, for which you'll be evaluated on education, experience and the innovativity & financial position of the company. If you're a solid startup that should be fairly easy to pass, but it's not a done deal. Only about 300 people per year pass the criteria in practice. You can find the criteria in Dutch here: https://zoek.officielebekendmakingen.nl/stcrt-2010-16617.html https://zoek.officielebekendmakingen.nl/stcrt-2010-16617.htm... That URL breaks Google translate oddly enough though, so you'll have to copy and paste the content.
  - joonix 14y ago
    I'm guessing residents under this visa don't get any government benefits such as free healthcare, correct?
    - digitalengineer 14y ago
      I think you just buy regular basic insurance like the rest. It costs about €99,-
josscrowcroft 14y ago
So, although I found the article a little bit light, I'm fascinated to hear anybody's experience of Amsterdam for solo entrepreneurs and creatives. I've been considering it as a place to live, work and play for a while. E.g. what are the pros/cons of moving there for 3–6 months, assuming there are no plans to raise funding, hire staff or rent an office?
- digitalengineer 14y ago
  Dutchman here. Depends on where your from. Trying to find an affordable place to live can be difficult. (Depending on what you feel is affordable). On the other hand, distance is nothing in Holland. You drive through the entire country in 3 hours. An affordable place to live just 30 min outside Amsterdam is a lot easier. Public transport is good, most of the time. Driving and parking in A'dam is expensive as well... Most people just drive a bike (not a motorbike). There's a ton of info over at http://appsterdam.rs/ http://appsterdam.rs/
  - raverbashing 14y ago
    Can you give a ballpark on rent figures? Also on average 'take home pay' for jobs
    - digitalengineer 14y ago
      Here's an overview with pictures and prices. Remember it's cheaper 30 min outslide of the city. http://www.funda.nl/huur/amsterdam/sorteer-huurprijs-op/p8/ http://www.funda.nl/huur/amsterdam/sorteer-huurprijs-op/p8/ Edit: What kind of jobs exactly?
      - raverbashing 14y ago
        Thanks for the link This prices are not expensive Ok, let me be more specific - Sw developer makes how much, and that's how much after taxes? - Senior Sw/Tech lead makes how much, takes how much home? For reference, here's Dublin: - Sw dev jobs pay around 3k to 5k per month, taking home btw 2k and 3k for that interval - A small flat, city center, 1 bedroom can go between 600 to 900, if you go a little further you can have a better price per bedroom. (even get a house for 1400 in some locations)
prtamil 14y ago
You should not move your company to Amsterdam because every employee can smoke pot legally :)
- cpursley 14y ago
  Better add Colorado and Washington state to that list. And maybe we should move all of our companies to Saudia Arabia since employees can drink legally everywhere else.
- kintamanimatt 14y ago
  So?
subsystem 14y ago
The real question is of course "Is it better than Berlin?". I personally wouldn't bother with any European city with housing market problem, excluding London.
- nirvana 14y ago
  No. And contrary to what others have said, more Germans know english than Dutch know english, on a day to day basis. Though you can get by without knowing dutch in amsterdam with a little creativity.
  - anton-107 14y ago
    Every educated Dutch person knows English. Even more than that - they willingly switch from Dutch to English when an international person joins the conversation. I can't say that I got the same impression about German people. They have very monolithic culture and it's not very open to foreigners. So if you do not want to learn neither Dutch nor German you better move to Amsterdam than Berlin.
  - DrinkWater 14y ago
    This is not what i experienced. I live in Germany, but i am quite often visiting the Netherlands. I was even able to speak to elderly people in English when i was lost in some small Dutch village.
  - Glowbox 14y ago
    Do you have any numbers to back that up? This site (http://www.nfia-india.com/why_english_speaking_society.html http://www.nfia-india.com/why_english_speaking_society.html) says 62% vs 91% in favor of the Netherlands. edit: seeing this guys profile/comments in this thread it's an obvious troll.
    - raverbashing 14y ago
      62% of the pop of Germany is more than 91% of population of Netherlands Lies, damned lies and statistics ;)
sangupta 14y ago
Any links to finding more information on moving from Asia?
sgt 14y ago
Also factor in the time you're going to be spending learning Dutch. You'll probably get by with English alone since everyone will speak it with you, but it's certainly less than optimal.
- mtrimpe 14y ago
  Apart from London Amsterdam is probably the city where you can get by most easily speaking only English. It will be hard to fully integrate into Dutch social life without learning proper Dutch of course, but professionally it will not be much of a problem and the expat community is so large that it is fairly easy to build a decent social life within it.
  - jonascopenhagen 14y ago
    > Amsterdam is probably the only city, apart from London, where you can get by perfectly speaking only English. You can get by perfectly speaking only English in most of Northern Europe. Southern Europe is a different story.
    - mtrimpe 14y ago
      Seeing that your from Copenhagen; how is the expat community there? Here it feels very thriving, lively and well-functioning, but quite insular because on the one hand we make it so easy to get by with English alone but on the other hand we don't truly accept people into our social circles unless they speak Dutch. Can you relate to that?
      - jonascopenhagen 14y ago
        Yes and no - the Americans I know who live here are generally very happy with it. Some are so used to being able to speak English everywhere in Denmark that they live here for years without getting to know the language. But I would definitely recommend people who live here for a longer time (two or more years) to learn a little Danish. It's not that hard, and they can use their knowledge of Danish to easily learn similar languages like German, Swedish, etc.
generalseven 14y ago
Very lively, internationally oriented, creative environment. Very strong hacker community with excellent people who are unfortunately (still) undervalued and misunderstood by their government. The article is probably wrong on one point: I don't believe you ever get used to the weather.
Mvandenbergh 14y ago
The real question of course is 'move from where?'. Should you move your company from Silicon Valley to Amsterdam? Probably not. Should you move it from somewhere else in Europe? Maybe.
nephronim 14y ago
If we can get the startup community in Amsterdam actively collaborating with each other I think Amsterdam could be as strong as any startup hub in Europe. Hence the mention of http://pitch.rs http://pitch.rs in the article.
kosherbeefcake 14y ago
How easy is it to move or at least move a business over to Amsterdam, from the US?

49 points by inbys 14y ago

If you run a successful business in holland, and pay yourself a salary out of it, your tax rate is over %70! And on top of that, you have %20 VAT. And this isn't even going into the manifold fees and other types of taxes you are subjected to. ------------------------------- This comment is not spam. It had a nice positive score until the socialists arrived. Of course, socialists being unable to deal with reality (or history!) must censor those who point out simple facts that undermine their ideology. And so this comment has been downvoted to obscurity (-15 at this moment) to make it less likely others would be made aware of the high tax rates in holland. This kind of dishonesty and censorship is why you can't have fruitful discussion on hacker news. The site is overrun by ideologues and moderated by ideologues and anything that doesn't strictly toe to the fascist modern ideology gets the boot. Ok, just accept, though, that you're anti-intellectual in a very profound way. When you can't tolerate people stating inconvenient facts, it's time to admit you're an intellectual coward. Frankly, I think you're all shit. You've elected a guy who claims he has the right to kill any american with a drone strike, in america, without any due process. And you're so proud of it! It's astounding. You should be ashamed. Profoundly ashamed. But know this, it is your cowardice and intellectual dishonesty that caused the state of affairs we find ourselves in. Run away to amsterdam if you like, see how long it remains nice.

netrus 14y ago
20% of your net income, so it's half as bad :) Plus, if your cool startup should not succeed and you get ill: Don't worry, everything will be fine :)
- nirvana 14y ago
  Milton Friedman did a study of healthcare in the USA, and found that the government "help" had driven up the cost 26fold and driven down availability. Or put another way, the reason people could get bankrupted by an illness is socialized medicine, and it's also the reason they might not be able to find care when they need it. Contrary to what Obama says, socialism doesn't work, and if you think you'll get better healthcare in the NL than in the USA, you'll have a very rude awakening... but of course you won't be alive to post your mea culpas here on HN. Frankly, even assuming this shows a profound ignorance of both history and economics.
  - mtrimpe 14y ago
    You, my friend, seem to be having mental health issues. We have an excellent support system for that in the Netherlands if you're interested...
    - digitalengineer 14y ago
      Let's add a little balance: Health care in the us can be excellent and yes, better than in the Netherlands. (I'm Dutch by the way and have friends who have flown to the us specifically for healt-related issues. There are stories in the media here about communities saving for sick kids so they can get help in the US. The US is at the forefront of health). However this excellent care is only available for people who can afford it. In the Netherlands they'll help anyone and they won't ask you for your credit card. No one goes bankrupt because they got ill and needed an operation. Downside of this is they can't help everyone right away and you need to wait some time before it's your turn. I had a nice talk about this with a surgeon for about two hours as he and his team were inserting four big metal tubes in my eye,draind all the fluid before puming it back up again with air and freezing the tissue back together again from the inside. At the end of the year I paid about $350 bucks and got my eysight back. The 350 bucks included all my ckeckup visits.
  - dguaraglia 14y ago
    Milton Friedman is so full of corporate interest, you can probably make two senators out of him. Seriously, explain how health care in any other 'socialist country' is way cheaper than in the US if government investment drives prices up. I dare you.
bvdbijl 14y ago
You can't just add percentages like that...
inbys 14y ago
Tax rates in continental Europe can indeed be steep compared to UK and US. In the Netherlands the top rate is 'only' 52%, not 70%. Most people, especially company owners, pay much less.
- yread 14y ago
  Yep. And only the income above ~ €56,491 will be taxed by 52% so your average tax rate will be much lower
  - dlib 14y ago
    Especially since the rent on your mortgage is deductible. Adding to that, expats have extra tax discounts (30% ruling).
walshemj 14y ago
Why would you include corp taxes in that. I looked at Amsterdam as a move and it was about the same as the UK and other European states, and as I have the max years in for the uk pension scheme I was temped to move to Holland to buildup a second pension there. The lack of a VCT's, CGT exemption and taper relief is an issue for smaller investors - Seems to me that the ducth have a lot of german style Mittelstand companies and cgt/taxsystems is trageted at that . and the 30% rule ie 30% of you salary is disregarded for 10 years for migrant workers is an amazing tax break(http://www.expatax.nl/30ruling.php#.UTnYdjfRqE8 http://www.expatax.nl/30ruling.php#.UTnYdjfRqE8)
- nirvana 14y ago
  Ok, so you don't pay %50 on 1/3rd of your salary for 10 years. I wouldn't exactly call that "an amazing tax break". You're still paying way too much in taxes.
  - ako 14y ago
    Depends on what you get in return...
  - walshemj 14y ago
    um you do know how to calculate % do you this is effectively adding 30% tax free to the base you do not get taxed at 52% on all the rest you still have the tired tax rates as well as the 30% And by that time id have moved back to the UK :-)
- mtrimpe 14y ago
  Also, if you're Dutch, entrepreneurial and working in IT you will usually be a freelancer. That means that you get to deduct expenses on working equipments, business lunches, hosting, travel costs, etc. On top of that if you're in an innovative industry you'll get another €20k or so tax deduction (WBSO & RDA.) In general that means that for innovative entrepreneurs it's fairly easy to get to an effective tax rate of about 10%.
ddbryant 14y ago
Let's not make up numbers... Income tax is high here (not 70%) but you know, you get what you pay for. If you're American the 30% rule kicks in as long as you are here on a dutch american treaty visa or sponsored by a company. Any American can start a company here and get a 1 year visa. That's a pretty low barrier or entry compared to most countries. Corporate tax is also incredibly low, with a ton of benefits for the first 3 years you are a b.v. (dutch corp)
- nirvana 14y ago
  Those aren't made up numbers. I actually did the math based on my income. How about you stop being a dishonest coward who characterizes your opponent, rather than making an argument, hmm? You don't get what you pay for, of course, if you bothered to actually add up what you really do pay, and what you really do get, but then that is the essential swindle isn't it? You and all the rest of the thieves like to pretend like it's better to pay government $20,000 a year for services the free market would happily deliver for $20. And then you act as if those of us who point out we're getting ripped off are "greedy", or in your case-- dishonest. Well, if you have to lie to make an argument, that tells me even you know your argument is the suck.
  - mryan 14y ago
    Would you be interested in posting the numbers you used for your calculations? I appreciate it is confidential information, but I find it very difficult to believe your tax rate is 70%. If you are in fact paying 70% of your income in taxes, I can recommend an accountant who can advise on a more efficient tax strategy. I would prefer it if you didn't reply and call me a socialist, or complain that I am dishonest - I have no horse in this race, I am merely pointing out that if you are in fact paying 70% tax, you could save a lot of money by talking to an accountant who specialises in tax efficiency.
  - meepmorp 14y ago
    > How about you stop being a dishonest coward who characterizes your opponent Ahem.
- 14y ago
jfb 14y ago
You should learn what a marginal tax rate is.
- nirvana 14y ago
  You should learn to think.
__--__ 14y ago
Why all the hostility? People are asking you where you got your numbers, which is reasonable considering your comment provided two percentages and nothing else. Your unwillingness to back up your opinions with facts that we can check and verify marks you as an intellectual coward as well. Stop calling the commenters names and engage in the conversation, please. I'd also like to know where your numbers are coming from, since I'm in the middle of deciding where to found my first company and any information that strays away from what is popular tends to get my attention.

pogosian 14y ago

Do they have some sort of startup visa in Netherlands? Something like UK's Tier 1 Entrepreneur perhaps?

digitalengineer 14y ago
Even better, according to the guys at Appsterdam there's this piece of law created after WW2 where anyone from the US can start their own company in Holland. USA citizens can apply for a Dutch residence permit to be self-employed or operate their business in the Netherlands. They can also sponsor their married partners and minor children for residence. http://www.expatlaw.nl/dutch_american_friendship_treaty.htm http://www.expatlaw.nl/dutch_american_friendship_treaty.htm
- mtrimpe 14y ago
  And we also have a classic entrepreneurs visa, for which you'll be evaluated on education, experience and the innovativity & financial position of the company. If you're a solid startup that should be fairly easy to pass, but it's not a done deal. Only about 300 people per year pass the criteria in practice. You can find the criteria in Dutch here: https://zoek.officielebekendmakingen.nl/stcrt-2010-16617.html https://zoek.officielebekendmakingen.nl/stcrt-2010-16617.htm... That URL breaks Google translate oddly enough though, so you'll have to copy and paste the content.
- joonix 14y ago
  I'm guessing residents under this visa don't get any government benefits such as free healthcare, correct?
  - digitalengineer 14y ago
    I think you just buy regular basic insurance like the rest. It costs about €99,-

josscrowcroft 14y ago

So, although I found the article a little bit light, I'm fascinated to hear anybody's experience of Amsterdam for solo entrepreneurs and creatives. I've been considering it as a place to live, work and play for a while. E.g. what are the pros/cons of moving there for 3–6 months, assuming there are no plans to raise funding, hire staff or rent an office?

digitalengineer 14y ago
Dutchman here. Depends on where your from. Trying to find an affordable place to live can be difficult. (Depending on what you feel is affordable). On the other hand, distance is nothing in Holland. You drive through the entire country in 3 hours. An affordable place to live just 30 min outside Amsterdam is a lot easier. Public transport is good, most of the time. Driving and parking in A'dam is expensive as well... Most people just drive a bike (not a motorbike). There's a ton of info over at http://appsterdam.rs/ http://appsterdam.rs/
- raverbashing 14y ago
  Can you give a ballpark on rent figures? Also on average 'take home pay' for jobs
  - digitalengineer 14y ago
    Here's an overview with pictures and prices. Remember it's cheaper 30 min outslide of the city. http://www.funda.nl/huur/amsterdam/sorteer-huurprijs-op/p8/ http://www.funda.nl/huur/amsterdam/sorteer-huurprijs-op/p8/ Edit: What kind of jobs exactly?
    - raverbashing 14y ago
      Thanks for the link This prices are not expensive Ok, let me be more specific - Sw developer makes how much, and that's how much after taxes? - Senior Sw/Tech lead makes how much, takes how much home? For reference, here's Dublin: - Sw dev jobs pay around 3k to 5k per month, taking home btw 2k and 3k for that interval - A small flat, city center, 1 bedroom can go between 600 to 900, if you go a little further you can have a better price per bedroom. (even get a house for 1400 in some locations)

prtamil 14y ago

You should not move your company to Amsterdam because every employee can smoke pot legally :)

cpursley 14y ago
Better add Colorado and Washington state to that list. And maybe we should move all of our companies to Saudia Arabia since employees can drink legally everywhere else.
kintamanimatt 14y ago
So?

subsystem 14y ago

The real question is of course "Is it better than Berlin?". I personally wouldn't bother with any European city with housing market problem, excluding London.

nirvana 14y ago
No. And contrary to what others have said, more Germans know english than Dutch know english, on a day to day basis. Though you can get by without knowing dutch in amsterdam with a little creativity.
- anton-107 14y ago
  Every educated Dutch person knows English. Even more than that - they willingly switch from Dutch to English when an international person joins the conversation. I can't say that I got the same impression about German people. They have very monolithic culture and it's not very open to foreigners. So if you do not want to learn neither Dutch nor German you better move to Amsterdam than Berlin.
- DrinkWater 14y ago
  This is not what i experienced. I live in Germany, but i am quite often visiting the Netherlands. I was even able to speak to elderly people in English when i was lost in some small Dutch village.
- Glowbox 14y ago
  Do you have any numbers to back that up? This site (http://www.nfia-india.com/why_english_speaking_society.html http://www.nfia-india.com/why_english_speaking_society.html) says 62% vs 91% in favor of the Netherlands. edit: seeing this guys profile/comments in this thread it's an obvious troll.
  - raverbashing 14y ago
    62% of the pop of Germany is more than 91% of population of Netherlands Lies, damned lies and statistics ;)

sangupta 14y ago

Any links to finding more information on moving from Asia?

sgt 14y ago

Also factor in the time you're going to be spending learning Dutch. You'll probably get by with English alone since everyone will speak it with you, but it's certainly less than optimal.

mtrimpe 14y ago
Apart from London Amsterdam is probably the city where you can get by most easily speaking only English. It will be hard to fully integrate into Dutch social life without learning proper Dutch of course, but professionally it will not be much of a problem and the expat community is so large that it is fairly easy to build a decent social life within it.
- jonascopenhagen 14y ago
  > Amsterdam is probably the only city, apart from London, where you can get by perfectly speaking only English. You can get by perfectly speaking only English in most of Northern Europe. Southern Europe is a different story.
  - mtrimpe 14y ago
    Seeing that your from Copenhagen; how is the expat community there? Here it feels very thriving, lively and well-functioning, but quite insular because on the one hand we make it so easy to get by with English alone but on the other hand we don't truly accept people into our social circles unless they speak Dutch. Can you relate to that?
    - jonascopenhagen 14y ago
      Yes and no - the Americans I know who live here are generally very happy with it. Some are so used to being able to speak English everywhere in Denmark that they live here for years without getting to know the language. But I would definitely recommend people who live here for a longer time (two or more years) to learn a little Danish. It's not that hard, and they can use their knowledge of Danish to easily learn similar languages like German, Swedish, etc.

generalseven 14y ago

Very lively, internationally oriented, creative environment. Very strong hacker community with excellent people who are unfortunately (still) undervalued and misunderstood by their government. The article is probably wrong on one point: I don't believe you ever get used to the weather.

Mvandenbergh 14y ago

The real question of course is 'move from where?'. Should you move your company from Silicon Valley to Amsterdam? Probably not. Should you move it from somewhere else in Europe? Maybe.

nephronim 14y ago

If we can get the startup community in Amsterdam actively collaborating with each other I think Amsterdam could be as strong as any startup hub in Europe. Hence the mention of http://pitch.rs http://pitch.rs in the article.

kosherbeefcake 14y ago

How easy is it to move or at least move a business over to Amsterdam, from the US?